Dont forget his knee has kept him from being the true Tannehill, as the mobile, athletic part of his game is quite significant as we saw last week as his knee looked to be feeling better.
Tannehill looks like exactly what he is, a rookie on a team deprived of talent. Nobody in the league would trade our WR's for theirs, what are our running backs ranked in the league? Low. Over paid offensive line that can't seem to get the job done. Saying all that, does it affect Tannehill missing open recievers? No. He had to make those throws. If you have watched the games all year you would have seen Tannehill underthrow the deep WR all year. He put a little to much on it, I'm ok with that. Happens to the best. Looked at Lucks numbers a little today and I seen he threw 3 INT's today. He also threw 4 TD's. That tells me his coaches are letting him air it out. I think Tannehill is being hurt just like Henne with trying to make him a game manager and not a high octane QB. Just with all of the short routes he gets, I think they need to push that down the field. Give the kids a chance for a 16 yards completion in instead of a 6 yard completion.
Hope he becomes more consistent, next year we play the tough AFC North defenses and NFC South. You never know what happens with teams and its obviously early, but knowing you're going into 2013 facing the Pats twice, Saints in the Superdome, Falcons, Bucs, Ravens, Steelers and Bengals is tough. We need more playmakers and consistency with what could be a difficult schedule. And if we finish 2nd, you add Andrew Luck and the Colts to the schedule. Better load up and improve this offseason.
Here's the short version for you, Shou: It's a statistical fact that Hartline has a slow top end speed, and that slow top end speed physically prevents him from easily running under deep throws like the missed TD today that any receiver with decent top end speed would've caught [likely in stride]. There. Better?
I used to think this fan base needed an enema. Now I think it needs meds and electro-shock therapy. No one really thought we were going to win this game, and when we don't its gloom and doom, Tannehill sucks,blah, blah, blah, bull****, bull****, bull****. I seriously hate us as fans. I sincerely do.
Disagree. A QB plays in reality. Not with imaginary WRs who aren't actually being throewn to. Like a sniper who leads a fast target, a GOOD sniper leads a slower target by less. That's called skill. A great QB leads a faster receiver more, a slower receiver less. Again, that's skill. Tannehill knows HArtline. Has thrown to him for months. He should lead him an appropriate amount. Not throw it where someone OTHER than Hartline would be fast enough to catch it, then blame Hartline. That's unacceptable and poor skill. I think Ryan himself would tell you he didn't want to lead him quite that far but probably the wind got a little hold of it. All the math is irrelevant. You lead the receiver as much as you NEED to for that guy to catch it. Throw to the reciever you HAVE. Not the ones in a theoretical model. By this argument Tannehill should lead Fasano as much as he'd lead a Clyde Gates. P.S> I LOVE YOU TOO
You're right. Comparing to other player or other teams is pointless. Whether we are better or worse, or above or below average to anyone else is irrelevant in a league where teams and players compete to see who is better as the entire and only point of the game. Sure buddy. In fact, the draft shouldn't go in order, because who cares which player is better than others. Hell, if we drafted all guys who performed worse than all the other teams guys, that's be an amazing way to use our picks and assets too. Why compare to others at all. Socialist league. All are equal. lol. Come on. Talk sense.
I thought the deep pass that hit fingertips was perfectly catchable.... Hartline slowed down a half step, maybe a full one, pretty blatantly.. and that comes in as an easy catch for a decent amount of elite pass catchers. i'm just talking about that one, I think it was the first. You have to make that catch.
The thing is, scaling up Ryan's throwing to bigger downfield throws would only exagerrate his current results... more TDs but by ratio, more INTs than TDs. with Luck, if you have a 1:1 TD:INT ratio, then opening the throttle should produce more TDs.. and an equal amount of INTs. With Ryan, opening the throttle, in the coaches eyes, could result in more additional INTs than additional TDs.
I'm not seeing a lot of folks saying that. What I do see is some folks, myself included, are a bit concerned that he's not improving his game - at least not consistently. Yes he's raw and yes he's allowed a certain amount of leeway, but the fact remains he's being outplayed by 3 QBs in his draft class. It's concerning. I'm not saying the sky is falling or anything like that, but at some point he needs to start showing improvement, that's all.
I appreciate that you can see the moderate point of view that it's not either "Ryan SUCKS" or "Don't say there is ANYTHING not great about Ryan".... but there is an in-between. And it's worth discussing. As is how Ryan performs relative to 'rookie expectations' and other rookies.
I think we all want the same thing at the end of the day, and I'm not "down" on Tannehill and I don't think he's a bust. I'm not seeing that from most people. My position is that I'm happy that Tannehill is starting and I think, generally speaking, he's done pretty well this season. We knew he was raw when he was drafted and that it was going to take him a little while to acclimate to the NFL given his lack of experience at the position. All that out of the way, I'm a bit concerned because he's coming along even more slowly than I was hoping ... and that's what has me concerned.
But this isn't about the QB's display of bravado via his passing accuracy. It's about reality. Yes, it's Tanny's fault today for not throwing a better pass to make up for Hartline's deficient vertical speed, but the reality is that specific pass could've been completed had we had a starting receiver with legit vertical speed, and that's all I care about moving forward, the conversion of the play. With a good vertical receiver we're not even having this discussion right now b/c that would've been an easy TD, but no, instead we're talking about how Tannehill didn't throw a more precisely accurate ball 50 yards downfield so that it doesn't go over his slower top-end-speed receiver's head. Hey, if you'd rather put a greater than necessary onus & pressure on Tanny to convert downfield throws b/c you feel it's not a real completion unless the QB drops it in his bucket, then that's your choice. For me, I'm seeing plays left on the field b/c our receivers cant do things that many other receivers can. Not even HOF QBs put deep throws on the money every time; sometime you need your WR to possess the natural ability to make plays for you on his end. <hugs> That'd be true if we're talking a typical short to intermediate pass but we're not. Therefore, the math isn't irrelevant. The better top end speed the easier it is to lead him and the more room you have to lead him, and to do so w/o fear of the DB recovering like we have to worry about with Hartline. The faster the receiver's top end speed, the greater the ground he can make up, and that's about all there is to it. I'm guessing anyone who's played QB can testify to this. Heck, I've heard QB's talk about how they have actual difficulties overthrowing their receiver b/c of their vertical speed. A conversation from Vick about Jackson & Maclin specifically come to mind. Again, Tanny shouldn't have to tweak this and that in order to better lead the slower Hartline in order to make up for Brian's deficiency. That doesn't make sense when there are plenty of receivers out there who require no tweaking whatsoever to where the QB can lay it up and simply let the receiver do the rest of the work and chase it down/run under it. That's not Hartline, and I'd refuse to make Tannehill's job easier just b/c you feel he should be more responsible for the conversion of the play than necessary. If there are plenty of receivers out there who don't require all kinds of adjustments to how you lead them [including a narrower window of leading] then why would you intentionally choose to make the QB's job any harder than it should be?
I know he's only a rookie but he lacks that mental "clock" in his head of when he has to get rid of the ball. He also senses pressure very poorly.
No. When a WR is running down the field wide open you have to hit him. Hartline doesn't have top speed but to blame him for any of this is laughable. The guy burned his man and Tannehill flat out missed him on more than one occasion. End of story.
I just don't like feeling like there are any similarities to the arc of Henne's 'development'. Shows promise. Arm. Goes deep. (Henne vs Jets, Tanny vs Zona). Soon seems to be missing deep and making more short passes. (Co ordinator 'protecting him', no real WR threats? we search for answers) Starting to think he is not instinctive enough (in his head, not just feeling the rush, trusting when to **** and throw qucikly without hesiating as he thinks... just that feel of a QB in his head) A couple games with multiple INT giveaway meltdowns. Notiving the QB needing to roll right and work the sideline comeback again and again this season, like a regular thing.. to avoid poor pocket protection, or because it's one of the routes our WRs actually execute well. Now there is a LONG list of positives Ryan shows that Henne NEVER shoed. I think Tannehill is 10x better than Henne. (I hope posters bother to read this before flaming me for putting Henne in the same thread as Tannehill, as if that's heresy). In fact, since the coaching staff is different, and the QB is different. But some of the same things are cropping up again.... which leads me to wonder if this isn't really about the talent at OL and WR. And that talent continually forcing an OC and QB into the same situation because of the OL and WR strengths and weaknesses.
Doesn't have to be...One (Luck) is going to the Hall of Fame..and the other is a transcendent talent... If we can build a team..he merely has to be Joe Flacco or Matt Ryan. Can Tanny do that? We shall see.
Oh I agree that a faster deep threat gives you a bigger margin for QB throwing inaccuracy. Why didn't you say so.
True, we cant blame Hartline for not doing something he's physically incapable of, just as I wouldn't blame Larry Bird per se for not winning a dunk contest. All we can do is point out how his deficiency can be improved upon moving forward next year so that in the future we're not stuck complaining about the TD that could've been.
As my buddy says, "Hitler had a wonderful singing voice." There is always some good in everyone. lol.
I would take the player who plays well in the playoffs over the player who does nothing but get good in season stats. Flacco is a pretty good quarterback.
I do believe that being in the NFL is good experience even if the QB is just sitting on the bench. Which is why I don't like comparisons to Henne because Henne didn't play until his 2nd year. Next year, I think it is more fair to compare Tannehill with Henne.
Flacco flat out blew that game today...but whatever. We get Flacco or Ryan (Tanny becomes a facsimile) ...we got enough if we build a team. Believe it or not, there are hall of famers (modern era) that weren't so great. Troy Aikman for one...Ben Rapeslisburger.....etc...
He's being outplayed by 3 QBs with more experience at the position. Remember earlier this year when we were praising Tannehill for steadily improving from game to game? He's still doing it, but the problem is now that NFL teams have tape of him and can effectively gameplan against him. Just like how the tipped passes in week 1 weren't really Tannehill's fault (JJ Watt has been tipping everyone's passes this year), I think we're allowing the level of competition to fuel unfounded pessimism here. Agreed about Aikman, but Roethlisberger is one of the best QBs of the modern era, judging by career YPA.
I don't think I've seen people complain in the past about Henne overthrowing his receivers by a mile on the fly route as much as they have about Tannehill overthrowing Hartline by a quarter-step.
Wow.. I did not know that! I have never, ever seen a QB overthrown a WR wide open in my 50 some odd years of watching football from High School through Pro. Just Wow! Seriously folks. QB's do that almost every game at one point or another. You must be looking for perfection, because you are sure doing a good job of crucifying him. .
No kidding eh? Did you see how far Brady over threw his guy early in the game today? It was by a good 5-10 yards. Im sure the Pat's aren't concerned with that. I mean, hell, if Hartline has another step... half step even... its not even an issue. It shouldnt be an issue. I could understand the rage if he missed him by a mile, but a few inches... give me a break.
It's all about talent acquisition and then coaching it. I think we have the coaching down now, its the acquisition I am worried about. I really want to know who picked Egnew. That is a major waste of one of the Marshall draft picks. That pick really needed to contribute this year. To me its looking more and more like that was an Ireland draft pick and was shoved onto Philbin and Sherman. Their refusal to even make him active in a game so far is ever so puzzling and reeks of a pick they didn't agree with.
