Salguero: Dolphins unlikely to fire Ireland

We didn't make the playoffs in Wannys last 3 seasons. 2 of those with one of the best running backs in the NFL.

 

In the macro sense, a playoff appearance every other year or every other 2 years would be average. This team is in a 10 year desert.

 

Right.

And we've missed the playoffs now 4 of the 5 years Ireland has been here.

Also, at least Wanny had two winning seasons where the playoff race came down to the last game. We have barely gotten to November under Ireland

 

You can look at Dave Wannstedt as a GM and Jeff Ireland as a GM and see a very clear difference. They aren't even remotely comparable.

If Dave Wannstedt got a viable NFL player in two consecutive drafts or free agency periods, it was successful for him.

 

Wait are you trying to argue that Wanny was a good coach?

I simply have stated what I stated to show that Wanny wasn't fired because back to back 11-5 teams weren't good enough.

 

No, I'm not defending Wanny at all, just pointing out that his record was far better than Ireland's has been and yet he was still fired. That's the point.

Also pointing out how far our standards have fallen, from where a 10-6 with no playoffs because of tie breakers was an unfathomable failure to now going 7-9 is no cause for alarm and might even be succesful.

 

This thread should have been titled "The Kiss of Death for Jeff Ireland, Part II".

Salguero is right as often as Omar Kelly.

 

Averaging a 7-9 season over five seasons, with four straight losing seasons, is not in my opinion just a tick under average.

And I'm also having trouble with the concept of how just a tick under average is supposed to be good enough.

 

Wannstedt had a skill for inheriting good rosters and gradually draining them of talent.

Ireland has a talent for safety... drafting safe (until this season) and suriviving and keeping his own job. lol.

I swear, if Ireland manages to outlast Philbin in Miami I'll be in awe of him and nominate him for "Survivor: Florida Keys"

 

Ireland survives only because of the change in coaching systems... he can argue he acquired players for a different offense, a different defensie... so you have to 'give him time' to get the right players.

The think is... he still won't. I think he's the best head scout an old-school team could hope for. That's what he is.

And with his magic touch with people he would be a great suicide crisis counselor.

 

Me too. Could you tell me who said that, though?

 

He'll read this, and still keep saying that we're satisfied with an average finish.

 

From 2000 to 2003, Dave Wannstedt drafted:

OT Todd Wade, FB Deon Dyer, FS Arturo Freeman, WR Chris Chambers, RB Travis Minor, LB Morlon Greenwood, TE Randy McMichael, OG Wade Smith, TE Donald Lee, CB Jamar Fletcher and SS Yeremiah Bell.

And that was with only ONE 1st round pick the whole span, which was tragically used on Jamar Fletcher (who actually played in this league a long time as a nickel CB). Chambers went to the Pro Bowl. Randy McMichael was a top tier tight end and was a Pro Bowl first alternate. Wade Smith is still a top tier guard. Donald Lee started and played for the Packers a long time. Yeremiah Bell went to the Pro Bowl I believe. Morlon Greenwood started in Miami. Travis Minor was no worse than Daniel Thomas. Arturo Freeman no worse than Chris Clemons. Todd Wade was a top tier right tackle until injuries fizzled him out, which is what some people are arguing is currently happening to Jake Long.

What's ironic is that as BAD as we know Dave Wannstedt really was as a General Manager (and don't get me wrong I'm not trying to say he was good), he actually drafted more Pro Bowlers than Jeff Ireland, while probably utilizing half of the draft value. Wrap your mind around that.

 

Let me reiterate. From 2000 to 2003 Dave Wannstedt drafted more Pro Bowlers using only 3,257 chart points of draft value, than Jeff Ireland did from 2008 to 2011 using 9,016 chart points of draft value.

Twice the Pro Bowlers with a third of the resources.

Dave Wannstedt.

 

Pro Bowls mean nothing.

Didn't you say a GM doesn't deserve credit for drafting a player that has success else where? Yet you give him credit for Donald Lee.

 

We are well and truly doomed if we have to look fondly upon Wanny's days as GM.

 

I said that a GM has a hard time taking credit for acquiring a player that ends up good, when he's the one that turned around and let that player go because he was no longer a buyer of the talent.

Dave Wannstedt did not let Donald Lee go. Dave Wannstedt was gone when Donald Lee went to the Packers.

 

It is a simple fact that many here use the record's being "average" as a data point to say that Jeff Ireland should not be fired. So yes, that is implying that average is good enough.

 

So you're saying that if Stephen Ross fires Ireland and hires a worse GM you will buy tickets? Your position inherently entails waiting to see the team win before you actually support it.

 

I don't think anyone has actually said Ireland shouldn't be fired. Who said Ireland shouldn't be fired. I'm fairly certain if you put up a thread asking if Ireland should be fired in favor of Jerry Reese or Thomas Dmitroff or Ted Thompson, everybody would be on board with that.

I think the biggest issue here is people's mis-comprehension of what should be expected of a replacement. If you are firing an average GM, a replacement is just as likely to be worse than better.

 

That's not what's being said.

 

He didn't let him go, but he didn't have success under Wannstedt. Donald Lee was successful else where. If Ireland receives no credit for Thomas, how does Wannstedt receive credit for Lee?

 

Because Jeff Ireland is the one that let Donald Thomas go. I'm not sure how you're not getting that.

 

Or Wade Smith or Jamar Fletcher who were both disasters in Miami.

 

I get that. You don't want to give him credit for that because he released him. Dave Wannstedt doesn't get credit for Lee, though. He didn't release him but Lee had no success under Wannstedt.

 

That doesn't make any sense. You're failing to separate Dave Wannstedt the GM from Dave Wannstedt the Head Coach. A big argument people keep making in favor of Jeff Ireland is that the players he drafts were good but they weren't coached well under Tony Sparano. Does Jeff Ireland suddenly not get credit for players he drafted that failed to play well under Tony Sparano but are now playing well under Joe Philbin? I guess now we don't give credit to Ireland for Reshad Jones because after all he drafted him to play for Tony Sparano and that player played like dog *** under Tony Sparano, therefore Ireland failed.

Dave Wannstedt the General Manager drafted a player in Donald Lee that ended up pretty good, and he as a General Manager never canceled out that good decision by turning around and cutting the player.

 

Are you the old guy that parks in front of the school and watches all the kids get out. Then casually drive real slow next to one and ask if he wants a ride?

Cause, if so that's creepy, not that I'm passing judgement or calling the police or anything.

 

Here's another one that'll blow your mind.

In only ONE year as General Manager of the Dolphins, Rick Spielman also acquired more rookies that turned into Pro Bowlers...than Jeff Ireland.

EDIT: Check that I was mistaken. One of the players I thought had gone to a Pro Bowl didn't, believe he was just an alternate. Spielman tied Ireland in number of Pro Bowlers. In one year.

 

So we should stick with a mediocre GM because the next guy could be worse? Under that logic, I guess Ireland should never be fired (unless Ted Thompson or Jerry Reese becomes available).

This is the equivalent of a low self esteem guy who stays with the ugly girl and is miserable because he doesn't think he can get someone any better.

 

oh lay off the guy some of you are clueless because there is no way in hell Miami will improve with Ireland making the draft picks . Ross doesnt seem to interested in winning but he is more into the glitter and hob nobbing with the celebrities.

how can any true blooded dolphin fan be excited about the future if we keep the the dirtbag Irleland the empty stadium should be a fear factor for the majority of the fan base.

on the flip side I think philbin needs to have more say in the draft . if we have a great draft and we win 10 games next year then I will not bring up Ireland's name for any reason.

 

Both were in charge of franchises that are amongst the league's worst, they have a ton in common. Millen was worse but its comparable. I don't know what you're arguing, I mean is liver cancer better than brain cancer? I don't want either one.

 

It saddens me that this long after Ireland was drafted we are still bringing up Wannstedt and Spielman. That speaks for itself.

 

Best post of the thread and i wonder why so many people Love Ireland its almost as if some around here love being underachievers.

i knew we were not going anywhere when the so called trifecta came here because of all the dallas cowboys signees . and the sad thing is the good cowboys players all went elsewhere. the old fassion I have a hunch theory isnt used enough because of how little points we scored . Its bad when a team, any team just barely beats teams like Cleveland and Buffalo. and Tampa Bay was bad and we nearly lost to them as well.



my question is how many years does it take to rebuild a team ? and do any of you have any stats that we can compare to in terms of how long does it take to rebuild ?