If the offense isn't scoring as many points per game and the defense is giving up more points per game, than the 2011 team did. I really don't see an argument for players playing better than they did last year. You may have a few players who have improved merely by having more experience in the NFL. If you are giving credit to improved coaching as being the reason for the improved play of a few players on the team. I guess that means that the coaching is also responsible for the poorer play of the team overall.
The reason I don't think Philbin will be around but a few more years is because I am afraid that Ross is going to stick with Ireland as the teams GM. Therefore Philbin will get stuck coaching mediocre talent and the team will continue to finish at 500 or below for several more seasons. This won't give Philbin much opportunity to show if he can be a good NFL head coach or not, IMO. Eventually Ross will see that Ireland is not an effective GM, but I fear it will be too late for Philbin, who will probably be replaced by the next GM who will want to hire his own HC.
Well they have spun themselves into a corner and hope that the fans don't have good memories. A friend of mine that still has season tix, said he received a call today from the Dolphins. They asked him to renew for 2013, and the incentive was two free tickets to either the Jags game or Bills game. He told them they better think of a better incentive and that he was not renewing his 4 tickets he's had for 27 years. Another one bites the dust.
Just as I said yesterday. Philbin is not at all on the hotseat. Ross knew this would be a transition year. Any and all statements he made about this year were all designed to sell tickets. You think he was going to tell the fans, "yeah this year is probably going to suck, and we have a rookie Coach that we have no idea how good he is, and we know the offense is very OFFENSIVE" You think he gets fans excited talking like that ?
The counter argument could be made that it is more then likely that those players were traded at the request of Philbin. One could speculate that a likely scenerio was that Philbin told Ireland that neither player fit his long term plans and it would be best to recoup as much team resources as possible from them so that they could be used in future drafts and FA signings.
Sounds like a good homework project for Shou Afterward he can make a poll on it to annoy everyone with
He's getting a "pass" because he is a damn good football coach. We are 7-6 if Dan Carpenter hits two kicks. 7-6 with this roster is an OUTSTANDING achievement. Giving ANY consideration to firing him would be absolutely ridiculous. We should fire Ireland, and replace him with someone from the Packer organization just to assure ourselves Joe is safe, that is how highly I think of the man.
Ah, the road to understanding football 101. Population: Not many. So many opinions. So few educated opinions.
??? 2012 draft was an outstanding overall draft. How do you come away with "awful"? Most teams would love to walk away with our draft. 2012 Draft 1. Franchise QB? outstanding pick! <Tanny alone makes this a great draft. Let's agree to disagree about him being awful.> 2. Starting rookie tackle who should still be a senior in college right now? Great & smart pick. <Criticizing this pick, especially after the recent Jake events and the Colombo episode, is downright silly and uncalled for. We HAD to come away with a starting RT, period. It's funny how posters here love to compare us to and praise Atlanta, but when we do exactly what they did in 2008, use our 2nd pick on a tackle to protect our franchise QB, it's ridiculed..... and Ireland didn't even track back into the first round to do so. Barring injury, Martin should develop into a solid mainstay for the next 10 years and would've been a 1st rounder had he stayed his senior year. So not only did we get him at a bargain but we got an extra year to develop him for Jake's position if necessary. Grabbing Martin last year lifted a big weight from this year's draft and should provide of a significantly greater amount of flexibility now that we're not left potentially having to find 2 starting tackles, and when you have as many picks as we do, having draft flexibility is a real asset when it comes to grabbing top talent and having the freedom to move around.> 3. Vernon? Cmon. How often do 3rd round DEs contribute on defense as a rookie, let alone be a stud on special teams? Great pick. <We were incredibly thin at DE with the retiring of Taylor and Misi moving to OLB. No DE's drafted after 72nd have outperformed Vernon. Meaning- Ireland didn't get it wrong. We satisfied a big need, and did so with who seems to be the best DE available at the time. Even if Vernon doesn't become a big time star, providing quality depth and rotation ability makes him an asset and worthy pick.> 3. Pass catching TE drafted b/c of his talent & upside? <foolish to judge him as an awful pick just b/c he's not seeing the field as a rookie> 4. Miller? Great pick. <How can you complain about a 4th round, potential impact running back with borderline 1st round talent?> 5/6. Kaddu & Cunningham? <so what. 49ers have 3 of 7 draft picks no longer on the team. Enough rookies are contributing to make it ok to miss on a few.> 7. Randall? solid pick. <When did a 7th round DT who looks like a solid backup and sees action as a rookie become a bad thing?> 7. Matthews? Another solid pick. <How can you knock a 7th round WR who looks to, at the very least, be an asset to the depth?> Rookie FA. Shelby? Cmon. <How often does a rookie FA become backup DE and see playing time as a rookie?> Rookie FA. Samuda? Promising looking backup. Rookie FA. Lane? Starting FB.**rookie FAs should count toward your draft class We didn't draft an elite WR. So what. That doesn't define our draft. Open your eyes and pay attention to the rookies we did bring in b/c when fans aren't so busy complaining about wide receiver they can see the draft for what it really is, which is pretty damn good. We have 9 rookies seeing action, 3 starters, 1 future starter, and a few other potential future starters. And most of this draft looks like it will perform at least equal to or better than the original draft status. 2011 1. Best center in NFL? Huge asset to the offense. NFL can't stop drooling over Pouncey. <Anyone criticizing this pick 29 games later is either clueless about football or is doing so just b/c Ireland made the pick.> 2. a raw running back who is contributing and still improving? <Thomas might not be an outstanding pick but he's not a bad pick either...... and a lot of people are forgetting we HAD to come away with a starting running back after losing all 3 of ours to FA. Once a few of the backs started going in the 2nd round our hand was all but forced to trade up for who most believed was the top back available on the board. Hindsight complaining is uncalled for in this case.> 4. Gates. <the dumbest thing I hear is people knocking this pick a year and a half later when the entire football planet was saying we might've gotten a steal in the 4th round. He doesn't fit the new scheme. Oh well. It's not like we could see that coming at the time. It was a great pick at the time that didn't pan out. Move on.> 6. Clay? Great pick. <The guy is contributing & producing well above his 6th round cost.> 7. Kearse? Big deal. He wasn't a bad pick. <He's seeing action in Carolina but was hard to break into our talented Dline rotation> 7. Jimmy Wilson? Outstanding pick! <Computers need a built in slap feature for each time a poster complains about a 7th rounder who is playing WELL ABOVE his cost and has contributed a pair of sacks, forced fumble, handful of pass break ups, and 28 tackles this year.... and helped hold Brady to his season's worst game.> Rookie FA: Pat Devlin? <Looks promising enough to be our backup of the future and possibly save us FA money from having to re-sign Moore.> Every 2011 pick is seeing action here or somewhere else, and 4 of the 6 are contributing in Miami at roughly and equal to or greater value than their original draft status, which isn't bad considering we had 3 picks through the first 5 rounds.
Jury is still out on Tannehill, Martin is one of the worst rated tackles in the NFL and Vernon has 0 sacks in the last 7 games. The rest of the draft sucks. 2011 draft: Thomas sucks, Gates sucks, Clay sucks and Jimmy Wilson sucks.
Actually they are still alive for a play-off spot. It's most unlikely they'll get there this year, but they are still mathematically alive. GO PHINS!
Davis we know was started by a phone call from Indy. As for Marshall it may have been Ireland not wanting to have to deal with his (possible) legal issues with the NYC police. That deal was on Ireland's plate completely and before Marshall became more of a problem, he wanted to cut ties with him. I don't have a problem with getting rid of Marshall, what I fault Ireland for is not replacing him. You cannot take that much of your offensive potential away and not replace it, and expect the team to not only be at least as good, but even better.
I'm with you Unified, I think Philbin can be the man, but as long as Ireland is here, he'll never be allowed to be a great coach.
oak, it could if easily been the opposite, Philbins assesses the team when he gets the job, hears some of the things that Marshall is yappin about, sees Vontae Davis's lazy *** style for his craft, and schedules a meeting with Ireland saying that these two guys don't rep what were all about, lets see what we can get for them to build the roster moving forward. I have have a hard time thinking Ireland would want to get rid of two players that he aquired...unless those were Parcells decisions and he didnt care.
Lot of excuses for a lot of the players there.. Such as Egnew, and Miller. UOTE=phinsational;1932836]??? 2012 draft was an outstanding overall draft. How do you come away with "awful"? Most teams would love to walk away with our draft. 2012 Draft 1. Franchise QB? outstanding pick! <Tanny alone makes this a great draft. Let's agree to disagree about him being awful.> 2. Starting rookie tackle who should still be a senior in college right now? Great & smart pick. <Criticizing this pick, especially after the recent Jake events and the Colombo episode, is downright silly and uncalled for. We HAD to come away with a starting RT, period. It's funny how posters here love to compare us to and praise Atlanta, but when we do exactly what they did in 2008, use our 2nd pick on a tackle to protect our franchise QB, it's ridiculed..... and Ireland didn't even track back into the first round to do so. Barring injury, Martin should develop into a solid mainstay for the next 10 years and would've been a 1st rounder had he stayed his senior year. So not only did we get him at a bargain but we got an extra year to develop him for Jake's position if necessary. Grabbing Martin last year lifted a big weight from this year's draft and should provide of a significantly greater amount of flexibility now that we're not left potentially having to find 2 starting tackles, and when you have as many picks as we do, having draft flexibility is a real asset when it comes to grabbing top talent and having the freedom to move around.> 3. Vernon? Cmon. How often do 3rd round DEs contribute on defense as a rookie, let alone be a stud on special teams? Great pick. <We were incredibly thin at DE with the retiring of Taylor and Misi moving to OLB. No DE's drafted after 72nd have outperformed Vernon. Meaning- Ireland didn't get it wrong. We satisfied a big need, and did so with who seems to be the best DE available at the time. Even if Vernon doesn't become a big time star, providing quality depth and rotation ability makes him an asset and worthy pick.> 3. Pass catching TE drafted b/c of his talent & upside? <foolish to judge him as an awful pick just b/c he's not seeing the field as a rookie> 4. Miller? Great pick. <How can you complain about a 4th round, potential impact running back with borderline 1st round talent?> 5/6. Kaddu & Cunningham? <so what. 49ers have 3 of 7 draft picks no longer on the team. Enough rookies are contributing to make it ok to miss on a few.> 7. Randall? solid pick. <When did a 7th round DT who looks like a solid backup and sees action as a rookie become a bad thing?> 7. Matthews? Another solid pick. <How can you knock a 7th round WR who looks to, at the very least, be an asset to the depth?> Rookie FA. Shelby? Cmon. <How often does a rookie FA become backup DE and see playing time as a rookie?> Rookie FA. Samuda? Promising looking backup. Rookie FA. Lane? Starting FB.**rookie FAs should count toward your draft class We didn't draft an elite WR. So what. That doesn't define our draft. Open your eyes and pay attention to the rookies we did bring in b/c when fans aren't so busy complaining about wide receiver they can see the draft for what it really is, which is pretty damn good. We have 9 rookies seeing action, 3 starters, 1 future starter, and a few other potential future starters. And most of this draft looks like it will perform at least equal to or better than the original draft status. 2011 1. Best center in NFL? Huge asset to the offense. NFL can't stop drooling over Pouncey. <Anyone criticizing this pick 29 games later is either clueless about football or is doing so just b/c Ireland made the pick.> 2. a raw running back who is contributing and still improving? <Thomas might not be an outstanding pick but he's not a bad pick either...... and a lot of people are forgetting we HAD to come away with a starting running back after losing all 3 of ours to FA. Once a few of the backs started going in the 2nd round our hand was all but forced to trade up for who most believed was the top back available on the board. Hindsight complaining is uncalled for in this case.> 4. Gates. <the dumbest thing I hear is people knocking this pick a year and a half later when the entire football planet was saying we might've gotten a steal in the 4th round. He doesn't fit the new scheme. Oh well. It's not like we could see that coming at the time. It was a great pick at the time that didn't pan out. Move on.> 6. Clay? Great pick. <The guy is contributing & producing well above his 6th round cost.> 7. Kearse? Big deal. He wasn't a bad pick. <He's seeing action in Carolina but was hard to break into our talented Dline rotation> 7. Jimmy Wilson? Outstanding pick! <Computers need a built in slap feature for each time a poster complains about a 7th rounder who is playing WELL ABOVE his cost and has contributed a pair of sacks, forced fumble, handful of pass break ups, and 28 tackles this year.... and helped hold Brady to his season's worst game.> Rookie FA: Pat Devlin? <Looks promising enough to be our backup of the future and possibly save us FA money from having to re-sign Moore.> Every 2011 pick is seeing action here or somewhere else, and 4 of the 6 are contributing in Miami at roughly and equal to or greater value than their original draft status, which isn't bad considering we had 3 picks through the first 5 rounds.[/QUOTE]
if the "jury is still out", then you can't call him awful. So? He's a non top 10 pick college senior starting as a rookie. We're lucky he's even starting this year. To expect him to play at a high level this early on is irrational, especially when he had to make a position change from day 1. . So? Chris Long had 0 sacks through his final 9 games as a rookie. Vernon has also taken on a different role IIRC to where he's not just rushing the passer. WADR, remind me to never listen to your opinion about the draft & player value in the future. Ever. If you can't understand how Wilson & Clay are significantly out-performing their 6th & 7th round draft status then you probably shouldn't be so quick to offer up your criticism. It makes you look silly. Give me a list of all the 6th round Hbacks and 7th round DBs who are playing at a higher level than Clay & Wilson. If that list doesn't trump the list of players Clay & Wilson are outperforming, then hopefully you'll be able to add 2+2= seeing the error of your ways.
but see this is the problem. Most of you guys think Sparano should have been able to "mold the Talent" because he had been here 5 years. We either have garbage talent or we don't. People are making excuses for Tannehill and Philbin saying they have garbage talent yet most of you held Tony Sparano to a different standard. Something is wrong with that.
How are Clay and Wilson outperforming their draft status? By getting toasted and disappearing in games? PFF has Martin rated as one of the worst rated tackles in the league and Vernon hasn't done a god damn thing on defense outside of one game. Those are the facts.
I think Philbin is the right guy for us right now. He's a football nerd in a sense and I love that about him. I think we have the right hire and he really needs a three year trial period before I make a judgement. The only way I see him getting canned is if there is no improvement and actually a few steps backwards next season. We won five games this year but there is no possible way this team could get any worse than it already is. I know the whole "you are what your record says you are" crap that people put out there, but we are bad....very bad... We compete and thats great and all but this team couldn't beat anybody if it really mattered; and it's been that way for a long long time. I want to see some player personel changes, and I want Philbin to get his fair crack at this the way Morono did. He landed Brandon Marshall and Karlos Dansby and couldn't get it done. Lets get Philbin Mike Wallace, and some cornerback help before canning him.
LOL. Yeah, you keep on foolishly judging a player's career based on his rookie year. It's cool. I understand you're using their lack of rookie contribution as a ridiculous way to support your dislike of Ireland just b/c it fits at the moment. Posters tried pulling the same stuff with Reshad Jones like you're doing now.... until he developed into one of the league's better safeties. Michael Turner had 104 yards as a rookie. Should'a cut his arse!! Ahmad Bradshaw had 190 yards as a rookie. What a wasted pick!! Spiller had 283 yards and 3.8 avg as a rookie. Yup, it was total excuse-making to say it was too early to label him a bust. Dennis Pitta had 1 catch for 1 yard as a rookie. Total schlep!! Shea McClellin has 6 tackles and 2.5 sacks. Should he hang up his cleats? AJ Jenkins? 1st round WR. 0 catches. Time to retire? Reuben Randle (WR who half this board thought would've changed our offense over night and should've taken over Martin)... 14 catches, 197 yards. Is his career over? I love how, year after year, many rookies around the league don't contribute as rookies despite going on to have good careers, but when they don't perform as rookies in Miami they're ignorantly & irrationally pre-doomed as failures just b/c Ireland drafted them. It's sad when your hatred of a GM entirely skews your ability of reason.
Those players are from different teams. When you don't have rookies giving any production,on the same team, year after year, such as our case, it can deplete a teams talent.
If this actually has to be explained to you, then I really don't need to explain it. It's like you asking for an explanation on how to finger paint. There's only so far one can dumb it down. And how is Martin rated compared to all the other starting rookie tackles drafted after him? How does Vernon rate compared to the other 3rd round and beyond DEs? Why do you insist on embarrassing yourself by comparing rookies to seasoned NFL veterans?
To me, Im still giving Philbin a pass because its obvious to me that this roster lacks talent. In many key areas. WR, OL, RB, TE, CB and a replacement for Clemons. We've been in alot of these games this year based upon the fact we've played above our heads IMO in alot of games, against some tough teams. However, that being said, if we can find a GM to replace Ireland and he wants to bring in a new coach, then... so be it. Id hate to loose him, but... at this point Id rather replace Ireland at all costs.
The road to understanding football 101? Are you saying that there are not many people living on a road, which leads to a class? Where does the road begin? How many people are in the class? Where do the many opinions come from? Clearly, those individuals don't live on the road.... do they live at the beginning of the road? Why are there so few educated opinions? Football 101 should be an introductory class... You've got me all mixed up here
Probably for the same reason that you are insinuating that a rookie is guaranteed to perform worse than a seasoned NFL veteran.
Personally, i think all we really need is one more serious threat catching the ball. Whether that be a WR or TE. If its a TE then we need the line to play better, so they can actually be utilized in the pass instead of blocking. This season we've only really had two viable pass options at a time. Don't get me wrong, 2 threats would be great. But we are in the playoffs with one, IMO.
I assume you've done a complete 32 team analysis to support your criticism of our rookie production and number of total starts compared to the rest of the NFL so that it doesn't look like you're talking out your arse? Pouncey was a Pro Bowl alternate as a rookie. Tannehill is starting as a rookie. Martin is starting as a rookie. Smith & Vontae started as rookies. Misi started as a rookie. Jerry started as a rookie. Hartline & Bess saw significant production as rookies. Clay saw significant action as a 6th round rookie. Ditto for 7th round Wilson. You're lucky if these late round guys make the 53 man roster, let alone see the field. Rookies are for building for the future, not trying to satisfy immediate starting needs. Unless he's a 1st round pick, it's often a bonus if he starts or sees significant action, let alone play at a high level. Do you even realize how much you're talking out your arse, or do you just operate on a false, silly assumption that teams like GB have players who all produce as rookies?
Ok, so it's time to cut 99% of the rookies in the NFL. There's a 10 foot piece of toilet paper hanging from the back of your pants right now; you know it's there.... but you still keep strutting through the crowded restaurant hoping it'll turn into a Rolex.
