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Ryan Tannehill's Running the Ball: Its Relationship With His Passing

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by shouright, Dec 22, 2012.

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  1. Dec 23, 2012 #41
    djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    With his limited weapons today, his running ability will be a huge key today, he needs to make it be known that its going to be in the repertoire today..I'd like for him to do it early, get the first down, have all eyes on him, and to take a moment to celebrate with the crowd and to show some leadership.
     
  2. Dec 23, 2012 #42
    shouright

    shouright Banned

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    Right, but why no runs of that sort during the first nine games?

    Not really. My goal is only to have a forum in which we support theories and statements with objective evidence, so when the theory is that long runs may account for these findings, then I like to encourage some objective research along those lines.
     
  3. Dec 23, 2012 #43
    FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

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    So, you have no real point behind this thread? You mearly just posted the stats for people to come up with theories as to why there would be a change?

    And you have no intention of participating in the speculation/theorizing in your own thread?
     
  4. Dec 23, 2012 #44
    Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Yes, but everytime he slides, he looks totally uncomfortable doing it.
     
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  5. Dec 23, 2012 #45
    shouright

    shouright Banned

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    The value of the thread IMO is in collaborating to come up with some explanation(s) for the findings that rest on objective evidence.
     
  6. Dec 23, 2012 #46
    NorFlaFin

    NorFlaFin Active Member

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    :pity:
     
  7. Dec 23, 2012 #47
    smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

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    C'mon man. A rookie HC did not write off his 1st season before it started. We all saw the preseason. Tannehill was better than Moore. Shoot, Devlin was better Moore.
     
  8. Dec 23, 2012 #48
    Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I clarified with this:

     
  9. Dec 23, 2012 #49
    smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

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    Living in a van down by the river.
    Clarifying it doesn't matter. The staff played the hand they were dealt and I bet to a man, they expected to win every game.
     
  10. Dec 23, 2012 #50
    Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Sure. Ok.
     
  11. Dec 24, 2012 #51
    DevilFin13

    DevilFin13 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    There might be a small causal effect going on. But I would need to throw in more variables to say for sure. It would also help to see the coach's tape to see if coverages have changed. I would think defenses play RG3 and Newton differently because of their running threat. If Tanny continues to show defenses big plays running it I could see them changing how they play him.
     
  12. Dec 24, 2012 #52
    FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

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    Kid ripped off another long gainer. This time a 31 yarder, topping his previous high of 30 last week. Past 3 weeks he's ripped off a 20, 30, and 31 yard run. Maybe the sample size was small, but not reflecting big runs enough? lol

    It weird when he runs that he looks like he's gunna have to slide or is gunna get tackled, but ends up just gliding past 1 or 2 defenders for a big run. All 3 of his big runs, I thought were gunna end earlier than they did when watching them live.
     
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  13. Dec 24, 2012 #53
    shouright

    shouright Banned

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    The sample size in the first nine games, in which he had no runs of that sort, was actually larger than the sample size of the past four games (i.e., the original post), in which he had the runs you mentioned, in terms of number of rushes, so I'm not sure how your sample size argument makes any sense.

    In other words, why did he have no runs of that kind during the first nine games, when he actually compiled slightly more runs from scrimmage?
     
  14. Dec 24, 2012 #54
    FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

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    I wasnt making an "argument". I was just making a joke. Hence the "lol"...
     
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  15. Dec 24, 2012 #55
    djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    lateral movement,sometimes he looks clumsy, but in a strait line, he's got some giddy up.

    I think if I were to pick one word that would describe what I think he needs to improve on is " quickness"

    We've got to get his weight a bit lower while increasing his strength...this way he will move quicker in the pocket, quicker on the little things of qb'ing..quicker in everything he does..I'd make him sleep with a weighted body suit, I'd make him do every drill a Qb has to do, play action, pump fakes, manipulating the upper body to find different platforms, maneuverability within the pocket, little details of Qb athleticism, all with extra weight strapped to his *** all offseason, You think I'm jokin I'm not, I would tailor a weighted body suit for him to practice in...and when it came off, that boy would be quicker.
     
  16. Jan 10, 2013 #56
    shouright

    shouright Banned

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    Here's how the overall season shaped up, with correlations with QB rating in the bottom row:

    [TABLE="class: grid, width: 192"]
    [TR]
    [TD="width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"]
    Rushes​
    [/TD]
    [TD="width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"]
    Yards​
    [/TD]
    [TD="width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"]
    YPC​
    [/TD]
    [TD="width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"]
    QBR​
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    3​
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    -4​
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    -1.3​
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    39​
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    3​
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    14​
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    4.7​
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    91.4​
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    3​
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    3​
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    1​
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    50.2​
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    1​
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    0​
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    0​
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    86.5​
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    4​
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    -4​
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    -1​
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    92.3​
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    4​
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    16​
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    4​
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    112​
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    1​
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    -1​
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    -1​
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    90.9​
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    1​
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    -1​
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    -1​
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    42.4​
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    1​
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    7​
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    7​
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    46.9​
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    4​
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    33​
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    8.3​
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    97.1​
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    5​
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    19​
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    3.8​
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    66.2​
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    3​
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    25​
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    8.3​
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    74.1​
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    8​
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    52​
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    6.5​
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    123.2​
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    6​
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    44​
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    7.3​
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    93.8​
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    2​
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    8​
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    4​
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    65.8​
    [/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    0.58​
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    0.60​
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]
    0.34​
    [/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: transparent"][/TD]
    [/TR]
    [/TABLE]

    So there were fairly strong relationships between Ryan Tannehill's QB rating and both the number of times he rushed per game and the number of yards he rushed for per game.
     
    MrClean likes this.
  17. Jan 10, 2013 #57
    MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

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    Other than a couple of plays that stick out in my mind, Ryan was a pretty smart runner too. He knew when to get down or out of bounds rather than take on defenders. RG3 better learn this or his career will be over before it barely begins.
     
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  18. Jan 10, 2013 #58
    AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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    I am all for Tannehill taking off with the ball more. He could have converted a lot more 1st downs early in the year if he took off with the ball and helped out the OL by keeping the defense honest. But not sure there is anything other to make of this other than when Tannehill went up against Jax and Buffalo he was able to rush and pass well. Then again so is every QB in the NFL. I there is a reason those defenses were 30th and 31st in the league in rush yards allowed.

    Throwing in Jax and Buffalo with SF and NE makes it look like his QB rating was solid over the last quarter of the season in each game when his rating was 74.1 (SF) and 65.8 (NE).
     
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  19. Jan 10, 2013 #59
    shouright

    shouright Banned

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    I think the plan against New England should've featured running him far more often on designed plays, with Bess and Clay being out, and with Fasano getting hurt fairly early in the game. There was just no other way to put any pressure on the defense with all those players absent. Instead, Tannehill had only two rushes, and the greater percentage of passing he did (as opposed to running) was more susceptible to poor plays with all those receivers absent. Dumb gameplan IMO.
     
  20. Jan 10, 2013 #60
    djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I thought this was on purpose, constricting him to the pocket this year for future benefit and all.
     
  21. Jan 10, 2013 #61
    FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

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    Running the ball absolutely opens things up down field. Even the short to intermediate stuff, as DBs are more prone to stop covering and crash down on the QB on rollouts, leaving those short routes open for easy completions.


    I'd be curious to see how it correlated for the other rookie QBs who have some wheels in RG3, Luck, and Wilson.
     
  22. Jan 10, 2013 #62
    FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

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    No need to risk injury to your future QB at that point. Game was meaningless...
     
  23. Jan 10, 2013 #63
    Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    They definitely need to incorporate more read-option stuff going forward.
     
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  24. Jan 10, 2013 #64
    shouright

    shouright Banned

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    Right, but so were the several before it, the ones in which he rushed so many more times for so many more yards.
     
  25. Jan 10, 2013 #65
    shouright

    shouright Banned

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    Right, but that plan appeared to "end" on purpose at some point during the season, and the coaches said as much. They didn't want to get him hurt early in the season and waste a whole year of development, so they constricted him early on but not later.
     
  26. Jan 10, 2013 #66
    Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    They weren't really meaningless beofre the last game. We weren't mathematically eliminated until the week before, I think.

    It probably did end, but he did hurt his knee. He seemed to run more in the game the brace came off.
     
  27. Jan 10, 2013 #67
    FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

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    Well, there definitely is a delicate balance between giving your quarterback enough opportunities to get good experience and to develop properly, while also trying to protect him from injury. I think they did a pretty good job maintaining that balance this season. They started off developing him mainly in the pocket. But they had to let him run a little bit it at some point this season to see his ability in that area in order to properly evaluate him during the off-season and what areas he needs to improve and what areas they need to work on with him.

    I would assume by week 17 that they felt that they had seen enough on film of that in order to have a good feel for how he is running both the read option and scrambling when the play breaks down... and decided that the risk of injury was no longer worth getting a little bit more that on film.

    I don't feel however that this is something that they want him doing on a fairly regular basis during a game. Based off Sherman's comments, it seems like it's something they would want to sprinkle in from time to time as a change of pace and to give defenses something else to think about, however it seems like the only want him to do that maybe five or so times a game and still want him to be attacking defenses with his arm over his legs the majority of the time. And I'd have to agree with that number. I think five or so read option plays a game plus the occasional breakdowns scramble would be more than enough carries to both help in the passing game in terms of opening things up as well as protecting him from taking a lot of hard hits while running the football.
     
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