I think Jeff Ireland is somewhat malleable on what kinds of players he'll look for given the preferences of the coaches. And so I don't think it was a coincidence he was looking at two Randall Cobb type players in that Pinstripe Bowl.
OK OK so the real question. Is there a chance we take him at 12? Or if we want him would we be better served trading back into the 1st/upper 2nd round?
#12 is too high for him, unless he has a late surge in rankings from now until the draft. I think we take a pass rusher with the #12, and then maybe trade back into the 1st to grab Eifert. Take Bailey then with our 2nd.
a little off topic i heard pat kirwin say when he was with the buccaneers that they timed bo jackson 4.18 40 weighing 225 lbs.
Where do you see him going at? I honestly haven't had the time to follow draft stuff up to this point.
he belongs in the 3rd but could get over-drafted in the 2nd. I could also see where it's possible he falls to the 4th purely due to draft circumstance.
at his size I think it's quite possible he does, especially if his 40 checks in close to 4.5 or over. Detroit drafted Broyles in the 2nd as a slot receiver despite being as productive on the outside in college as Bailey; however, Detroit was desperate to add another target, namely a slot guy. Plus Broyles has a little more length and looks a hair faster in my eyes. If Broyles is perceived as a slot guy, I don't see Bailey escaping that pegging, and in that regard I think he's a 3rd rounder unless someone gets as desperate for a slot guy as Detroit did last year, but that would require them to pass on a lot of talented players at higher priority positions to take a slot receiver in the 2nd. Just my opinion.
For one thing, Detroit also drafted Broyles even though he was fresh off a November ACL tear and still couldn't really work out. So that shows you how a player of Stedman's exact dimensions can still be valued in the Draft. For another, no Detroit was not at all "desperate" about a wide receiver. In fact given the presence of Titus Young to play 3rd fiddle to Calvin Johnson and Nate Burleson, many people did not at all understand the Ryan Broyles pick. They were just that high on him.
I don't think there's any way short of the surfacing of an arrest/attitude history we don't know about, that Stedman Bailey makes it to the 3rd round. Not a chance. I'd bet solid money on it not happening.
Detroit badly wanted a slot receiver to compliment Calvin and their 3+ receiver sets b/c neither Titus nor Burleson fit the role IIRC.
Keith seems to be a fan of this kind of stat analysis so here are Quinton Patton's averages versus winning and non-winning teams. Winning Teams: 4 games, 49 catches, 658 yards, 8 TDs Non-Winning teams: 8 games, 55 catches, 734 yards, 5 TDs Essentially he jumps from being a 7 catch, 92 yard and 0.6 TD guy to being a 12 catch, 165 yard and 2.0 TD guy when facing a quality opponent. He's another guy to watch. Put together his tapes from 2011 and 2012 and you'll see him beating the likes of Johnathan Banks (Miss St), Will Davis (Utah St) and Terry Hawthorne (Illinois). I'm sure there are others.
It wouldn't shock me the least if Patton snuck into the back of round 1. I wouldn't want to take him there, but I would with 2a and let him put Hartline on the bench.
Just well to remember we don't have to have tunnel vision for one guy when there are others that could probably help the team.
Yep. He may have stepped up more against better competition than any other receiver in this draft. His touchdown production is still lower than Stedman Bailey's average TD production when you take into account the # of receptions the player had. I think only Keenan Allen equals him relative to the percentage of his team's passing touchdowns that he caught. Keenan caught 45% of his team's TD passes on the year and 50% of the ones in games he played.
So Stedman Bailey, Keenan Allen or Cordarrelle Patterson? That's become a tougher question than I'd imagined it being a year ago.
All three guys could be put to good use here. Every time I watch Patterson, I think to myself that he's Davone Bess 2.0. He cuts and accelerates like Bess after the catch, but also has that extra gear to run away from defenders afterwards. That's the first thing you notice, are his cuts. He might even do it too much sometimes, but man is he elusive. I used to be really high on Allen, but after watching Patterson and Bailey more, I'd put him #3 behind those two.
Why? Allen is more ready than Patterson, and from a passing efficiency standpoint he's probably the best fit in this draft for our offense, with Quinton Patton being a close second. Bailey is a potential slot receiver in the NFL, so I'm not sure why you'd prioritize him ahead of a legitimate NFL perimeter guy WADR. We're ok in the slot with Bess (although I'd prefer to upgrade him with more speed if at all possible), but we're not ok on the perimeter, so that should be the position's top priority. Besides, we're not taking Bailey in the 1st round, and you simply can't assume all 31 other teams will politely pass on him so that we can take him with 2b or 3a. What happens if someone takes Bailey before us? We're left with sh** and could conceivably be in a position where we perhaps don't take a receiver till the 5th or 6th round depending how the board shapes up. That's the kind of stuff you'd LAMBAST Ireland for so I'm not sure why you'd condone it. You'd be screaming your head off at us passing on Allen in the 1st round and ignoring receiver until the 5th round. If the first 11 picks shape the board up to making Allen seem like the best option, then you take him, period, and draft well the rest of the way.
Does anyone here believe Bailey is a better perimeter receiving prospect than Keenan Allen? That's the question that needs to be addressed.
I think Bailey and Patterson have higher upsides than Allen. I also don't think he uses his size to his advantage. I rarely see him stiff-arm or break tackles. A guy with his frame should be more physical IMO. He's a nice player, just not sure he's better than those other two. If we were considering a big WR, I like Justin Hunter. He has the size and speed, and played pretty damn well against some tough SEC defenses.
They are different players IMO. Bailey is better down the field, but I think Allen is more versatile and complete WR. I think Allen might be better after the catch as well.
Ok, gotchya now. If that's how you feel, then that's understandable. I can't criticize your opinion if you actually have Allen behind those 2, even if I disagree. However if you were passing on a better talent with the hopes of grabbing an inferior player later, I'd have to heavily disagree with you. Personally, I think Patterson is a better playmaker (as you obviously do, too) but IMO Allen will do a better job of at actually getting the ball in his hands to begin with and do so more efficiently, so I'd give him the edge. It's not like he void of playmaking ability.
I just question Allen's ability to get consistent separation at the next level, and like I said, he's not gonna make guys miss and house it too often.
I'm not sure Bailey and his smaller size would be better down the field against NFL DBs than Allen. Look at the 6 games verse our division for instance. Against NY he'd be matched up against the league's best cover corner and a very good Cromartie who physically dwarfs him. Then he's got 2 talented, physical corners in Buffalo, both bigger than he is and just as fast, one a high 1st rounder, the other a high 2nd, plus a talented LSU rookie who matches up quite favorably to Bailey. Against NE he's against another talented, bigger 1st round corner (Talib); a physical, 1st/2nd round talent corner (Dennard), and a talented 1st round safety/corner with ballhawk skills (McCourty). IMO Bailey doesn't have the speed like Wheaton to outrun these guys, and he lacks the size to compete with them to where I'd label us as having the advantage. For me, if we want to beat NY, NE, and Buff on the perimeter we either need a big, physical talent like Allen (or perhaps Patterson or Rogers), a burner like Wheaton, or a guy like Patton who offers enough size, talent, and route running prowess to match up favorable. Now, having Bailey in the slot is a different story in my eyes. I'd love to have Bailey in the slot with a pair on the outside consisting of either Allen, Wheaton, Patton, or Da'Rick Rogers. Personally I'd take either Allen or Patton from a reliability standpoint and then compliment him with either a physical playmaker (like Rogers or Patterson) or a speed threat like Wheaton.
That's fair. Personally I don't believe he fits the Patrick Turner mold, but it's worth keeping an eye on if you feel it's a concern.
I don't see waiting for the 2nd round to take a WR as all that risky. I actually wouldn't be surprised if no WRs go in the first. As for Allen, personally I would take Tavon or Bailey ahead of him and I have little doubt that at least one of those makes it to our pick in the 2nd.
As good as anyone in the draft, probably. He's great. If this guy were 6 foot 3 he would be a top ten pick.
What separates Patterson from Bailey for me is burst. Both have quick feet. Both have body control. Stedman has more short area burst and leg strength than a DeAndre Hopkins which I think is part of why Stedman looks so much more powerful than a guy that has 2 or 3 inches and 10-15 lbs on him...but his burst isn't what Patterson's is. I think Patterson and Bailey are the only 1st round worthy receivers in this Draft.
Dude, don't say the words first round and Stedman Bailey in one sentence. And DEFNITELY don't tweet it! Jesus, lets give ourselves SOME chance of getting the kid in the second!
And as much as I love Stedman Bailey (a lot) I don't see him as a first... **** he may creep into the 28-32 area as word is getting out. Thing is, months ago he was on my watch list as a fourth rounder. Wtf happened? Kid is climbing. Maybe our Bailey-lovefest here is way out of touch with league perception. He may still go low.
LOL. Nobody listens to me. Except when I muse aloud about being told RG3 has a torn ACL at a time when nobody knew that yet. THEN suddenly I've got 3500 twitter followers. Else wise I have 3500 twitter "followers".
I'm less impressed with Patterson's burst than many here. I also think both Hopkins and Bailey catch the ball better and are better route runners. I like Patterson, but he's a guy who will have to develop a bit at the next level. He may have more upside if his YAC ability translates, but I also think he has more bust potential.
