RUMOR: Big trade between Miami and Dallas?

It generally takes wide receivers about 3 years to really show what they can do in the pros.

I'm still holding out hope that Hagan shows up this year with a better (or just improved) QB and O-line.

I was reading the PFW pre-draft magazine yesterday while my car was getting fixed and couldn't help but notice that all of the guys we drafted were labeled as VERY TOUGH. I'm not sure that Ginn Jr. falls into that category though..

 

The first part is absolutely correct. The 3 year rule is generally a pretty good guideline. Often a player will show big improvement toward the second half of their second season, then their third year will be the breakout. In any case, we haven't seen the best of Ginn yet.

As for Hagan, however, I wouldn't hold your breath. He's shown very few signs of progress his first two years. He's still a body catcher and still drops the ball like it's hot. I'm pretty much writing him off at this point.

 

#1...Ginn is our best reciever.

#2....The cap hit we would take by trading the #9 pick after only 2 seasons would be huge.

#3....Why would anyone want a player, (Roy W.) who is a liability AT THE POSITION HE PLAYS, and aquire that player by trading away one of your better playmakers (see #1).

THis makes absolutely NO SENSE. I am not in the market for swamp land.

 

Yeah big difference between Hagan and Ginn. I watched every game and I really can't remember Ginn dropping a catchable ball. Not only can I remember Hagan dropping balls this last season and the season before, but I remember him dropping balls on key 3rd down situations. And that is what separates the men from the boys when it comes to WR. I won't write off Hagan completely, but he better produce this year or it will be time to give up on him.

 

I would definitely be scratching my head if this happens... Might even start watching the Cowboys more then the Dolphins if Zach and JT are on the team! (Sad but true)

 

I would like to know how Ginn's contract is structured. according to what I heard on Sirius the guaranteed monies in certain rookie contracts(they cited Ronnie Brown) are not in the form of signing bonus but guaranteed base salaries and roster bonuses. now I am not sure if this was just Ronnie's contract or if this is a recent trend. what further puzzles me is how these could be cap friendly without amortization of a signing bonus.

 

More on knowing what he can do as opposed to what he was allowed to do in 2007.

But we may as well get rid of him, as he won't be properly utilized here. Same with Ronnie.

 

On a good day, Roy Williams and Bobby Carpenter are average players.

That's all I got to say on this seventeen-page thread.

 

Roy Williams yes, Bobby Carpenter no.

 

With Ginn I think he stands a very real chance of not doing much at WR and not justifying his salary. I don't think his speed alone is going to distinguish him from the guys covering him like it did in college, and the other attributes he has I don't think are special enough to do so either.

There are a ton of players with world-class straight-line speed who haven't done much at WR in the NFL, and I don't see Ginn possessing any other "special" characteristics. Hands -- maybe -- but that isn't gonna do it either.

Now if he had the drive and the heart of a Steve Smith or a Michael Irvin, the body control and the route-running of a Wes Welker or a Marvin Harrison, the dominance borne of size and strength of a TO or an Anquan Boldin, or the height and the jumping ability of a Randy Moss, then we'd be talking about a different player.

But Ted Ginn I think is more just speed, and I think that stands a real good chance of not cutting the mustard in terms of putting him in the upper echelon in the league at his position. He may get his 50 to 60 catches and he may push the safeties back a little, but I don't think he's gonna be an elite receiver.

 

If what you say proves to be true, I think it will be lack of quality QB play and not a lack of talent on Ginn's part.

 

I don't know about that. Ginn is a world class sprinter, & a serious professional athelete but if you watch his college highlights most of his receiving TD's came on college type plays against porous, college type defenses.

Picking him that high was a stretch, I don't care how nice his dad is...

 

I base my assessment of Ginn on what I saw this last season in the NFL, not in college. I saw a rookie receiver on a bad football team with unstable QB play making good plays, getting open, and catching every ball thrown his way.

I agree with you 100% that picking him at 9 was a stretch. Quinn was the pick to be made there. But that doesn't mean I think Ted Ginn is a bad football player. IMO, he's going to be a very good WR in this league.

 

As you said, without knowing the exact wording of the contract it's hard to tell, but he has at least 5.25 million in prorated bonuses that would be counted against any move we make. My assumption on this is that he has 1.745 M bonus proration (per Clumpy's spreadsheet) and I believe it was a 4 yr contract, not a 5 yr...if it were a 5 yr contract, add another 1.745 to that figure...subtracting his salary to be earned this year, it would have to be at least a $6 M hit if we trade him, perhaps more...I just don't see the Fins making this move for the aforementioned three players...The value just isn't there for Miami, even if the financial issue can be justified by Tunaland....

 

many polished college WR's don't make it, taking a raw guy #9 was pretty stupid

 

Hindsight 20/20 would Pacells think the franchise was in a similar or better position if we drafted Quinn over Ginn last year?

The question would have to determine Quinn plus other QBs on the roster at this point in time (Quinn replacing Beck most obviously), but would Parcells/Sparano, etc be in a better more enviable position with Quinn over Ginn????

 

No, it wasn't. Houston wanted him at #8, but the Schaub trade swapped them to #10, where they still would've taken him. Then St. Louis wanted him at #13, but were apparently of the belief they wouldn't be able to get him at that position--so they acquired Dante Hall.

So, three teams thought he was worthy of the #8-#13 pick range.

#9 is about right for Ted Ginn.

 

Whatever Ginn may or may not be, hes more valuable than Roy Williams and Bobby Carpenter. A washed up small LB playing out of position since he cant defend a pass to save his life, and a so-so LB talent when we have several already matching that description.
And JT for 1 year>>>>Greg Ellis for 2-3 years.

Just a horrible trade idea. Whether or not we feel Ginn was picked to high, the guy has serious playmaker ability. It remains to be seen if he can translate it all the way, but he definately showed some flashes and progressed as the year went on. Would be a big mistake to trade him right now imo.

 

I'd be very upset if Ginn is part of any trade, going into THIS year. He will make whichever of our QBs better by stretching the field aside from the possibility of Hester-like Kick Returns. To me, he's more valuable than anyone Dallas can trade us with the exceptions of Barber and Romo. I'd rather have JT mentoring our young defensive guns and teaching Long and our other new OLs how to defend against a world class pass rusher. Given that, getting value for JT would be okay, but not if it includes Ginn thank you.

 

we should let them have him

it was an awful pick

but then again I hate first round WR's