With the #12 pick in the 2013 draft the Miamai Dolphins select....

To become the Raiders

 

I agree with that about Toilolo. Wouldn't see a drop off in blocking by losing fasano but would add a more dynamic pass catcher and athlete than fasano. Also can get him in mid-rounds.

 

Hopefully we don't take Te'o.

 

Manti Te'o didn't suddenly become a bad player. The Bama OL is manhandling the Notre Dame defensive front and allowing clean releases to the Bama OLs to get out on Te'o.

 

I've never been a huge fan of Te'o. I think he is solid, but not a huge playmaker. I like the other LB options in the draft (Minter, Olgetree, etc) and think they will offer much better value in the draft.

 

Not worth the 12 pick. A complete non factor tonight.

 

I just remembered that I don't need to argue Manti Te'o tonight. I just need to wait for the Combine when his draft stock irrationally swings back the other direction.

 

AJ Hawk anyone?

 

Wouldn't take him at 12 depending who's still there. Strictly BPA.

 

What do you guys think of Eifert and Milliner in this game. Matched up a lot. Thought both have done well, except Eifert isn't being physical enough considering the size difference.

 

Milliner has been great. He might be playing himself into the top 10.

 

Agree, Milliner is having a fantastic game. Gladly take him at 12.

 

Definitely agree.

 

I can't see the Eagles by passing on Milliner. Maybe for Luke Joeckel if he is there.

 

Wow that was crazy, center pushing QB. DAMN Marino, manning, etc...would've killed that guy

 

Funny thing is Jones is a better pro prospect than McCannon.

 

Absolutely, still though

 

Ray Lewis wasn't playing up to standard the year or two before they got Ngata. Zach Thomas had quiet games when battling with Kevin Mawae. It happens to the best of them.

 

Difference being they had already performed great at the highest level before that

 

My notes when I watched Cordarrelle games on video about a month ago.

Cordarrelle Patterson WR
- crisp
- routes? ran wrong route on TD!? He laughs, says coach is "trippin"... that he 'had to get open". but can tell he knows he ran it wrong (I'm in love with this guy so far.)
- good with ball in his hands
- plays fast
- runningback moves
- how is his TIMING on timing routes?
- good conditioning! 80 yard return, not out of breath
- Strong, conditioned athelte
- straight line speed
- change of direction
- can he go up in the air and win the ball? (aendzone?)
- played out of the SLOT a lot?
- like Bess on STEROIDS in every way
- physical like Boldin but faster and niftier
- TONS of juice in him, passion to play, excited
- WINNER
LOVE HIM
- CALM CUSTOMER under pressure and in BIG *** games!
Question Marks: I would have liked to see him on more jump balls in the endzone. Can he pull down contested TD throws?
- Not 100% sure on his emotional maturity. That puts him in the 2nd round, to me, but boy is he intriguing from a skillset and physical standpoint. Except there is NO WAY he makes it to round 2.


My worst case scenario would be having to choose between Stedman Bailey, whom i love, and Cordarrelle if he somehow fell (he won't) and BOTH were available with 2b.

God, from my keyboard to your ears.

 

Not sure I agree that high. Too many questions, too me. Short background against top competition. Really questionable mental lapses (or disregarding what he's been coached). Lck of technique... is it just a result of lack of high level coaching? We are AssuMING NFL coaching will really improve him. What if it's his mentality as much as the (lack of) coaching? I am troubled by not seeing enough balls caught at high points with CBs physically figthing him for it... because in the NFL, that's a lot of your deep balls, and a LOT of your redzone TDs.... I'm fine with that not being a strength if he is our #2 WR, taken in the second round and who adds a YAC dimension for big plays... but at #12 I want a guy I can trust on deep balls that are contested and constested redzone balls. I want a ****ing touchdown machine.

Now Bailey had the nose for the endzone... but lacks the impressive build Cordarrelle has.

If you ask me whether I'd rather use a #12 overall on Cordarrelle or a #42 overall on Stedman Bailey, I don't think Cordarrelle is THAT sure a bet to outproduce Stedman in the NFL... not enough to pick him THAT much higher.

Now if they were both being picked in the same round, I think you go with Cordarrelle... but it ****ing pains me to say that. I feel Stdeman has soemthing special. I just owrry, with him, that the size, speed, and aggressiveness of NFL CBs could take some of that away due to his size. Then again, he plays with the tenacity of a Steve Smith. The great one, not the so-so one.

 

"Officially"

 

That was the other thing with Cordarrelle... this is a timing offense, and that may not be something he does well nor consitently.

That's a fundamental for him to be great in this offense. I just don;t trust him as a pick at #12. Too high considering.

 

At #12 overall you HAVE to get a player who will contribute the majority of his production in base offense type plays, imo. If this guy pans out as a top tier #1 or #2 WR, you will not want him returning kicks or punts with any frequency... so you lose that value unless he is not panning out and you need to salvage his value by using him there. Sure we may do it for his rookie season, but I am talking about his CAREER. Also, if technique and precision is an issue, this kid needs full time concentrating on his timing and routes, not worrying about learning return duties... or you'll end up with a #12 overall kick returner and average #3 WR. No thanks on that one.

End-around option passes, etc.

Look, we are talking 12th overall. Strip away all the great college-type plays you are unlikely to see an $8-10 million a year Pro Bowl WR doing with ANY frequency when projecting what we will get from that spot... because otherwise, you are dratting for the wrong thing there and unlikely to see ROI in my opinion. If this guys talent pans out, he will be producing at a $8-10 Pro Bowl WR level, isn't that the hope?

So is it realisitic for him to function that way for us, long term? Without all the cool extras?

The more we discuss it, the more I prefer Stedman Bailey at #42 overall and Jennings in FA. Use #12 to either trade for an NFL starter at a position of need, or trade down to the late first round and take a TE like Eifert, DE like Ansah or CB like Banks, plus get another 2nd round pick.

 

yeah. Milliner doesn't make it to us now.

 

You expect him to tear it up during the combine? I was only expecting him to have an "average" combine.

 

I understand that you can't judge a player by a single game, BUT when I look at Te'o I really wonder what he will bring to an NFL team. When you have a guy like Kevin Minter at LSU, you know what you are going to get because he has faced the top notch SEC competition for a lot of games throughout his career. Then you have a guy like Te'o that has been dominant against questionable offenses and then you finally get to see him against a quality SEC and he underwhelms. This game was supposed to be a good indicator of how Te'o projects to the NFL because I think SEC ball and the Alabama team plays closer to an NFL than almost any other college team. Yes, I know Alabama has a great OL and besides Nix III the Notre Dame DL didn't really hold their own, but still I saw at least 3 plays where Te'o made the correct read, got to the HB, and couldn't make the tackle.

I have been against selecting Te'o for a while now, but this game polarized me against taking him even more. I personally do not see a game changer, a play maker, or someone that is going to significantly improve our defense or team. Everyone is crazy about him due to his leadership and story, but honestly, I would take talent over leadership and stories any day. Leadership can be learned overtime, talent is very rarely attained if you don't have much of it before (not saying Te'o isn't talented, just saying he gets a lot of publicity because of the other stuff). There are a lot of really good LBs in this draft that can come in and help our team out, howevere I do not want Te'o at 12 in any way shape of form.

 

Te'o showed me he is not clear cut the best MLB in this class. He flat out struggled with everything tonight. I wouldn't even consider him at 12. I'd rather roll the dice on Okafor, Ansah, Banks, Patterson, or Efiert.

 

He missed 5 tackles on Lacey... Best defensive players in the nation don't suddenly suck when faced against other talented players. Is this going to be an excuse when he is drafted? Because he is going to be facing Better offensive lines than the ones he faced tonight.

 

I would be very surprised if he doesn't. His tailback like agility and range at such a large size are a big part of who he is as a player.

 

I'm sorry but I can't agree with that statement. The SEC is a defense dominated conference, not an offense dominated one. In the Pac-12 and Big 12, the best high school recruits are generally put on offense when there's a choice. In the SEC the best ones are put on defense. For example, Keenan Allen was recruited to SEC teams mostly as a safety prospect. Anthony Barr would've immediately been played at linebacker in the SEC and I believe that's how he recruited. He went to UCLA because they gave him a shot at tailback.

So I don't really buy that the reason you can "trust" a Kevin Minter over a Manti Te'o is because he faced SEC competition. If you can "trust" Kevin Minter over a Manti Te'o it would just be because you think he's a superior player and that's why he's in the SEC. But I don't think that's really the case. I think any SEC team would love the opportunity to feature Manti Te'o in their linebackers unit.

 

ESPN reviewed all of this games and found 2 missed tackles all year.

And I'm going to tell you right now that the missed tackle count is not as high from last night as you're saying it is. This reminds me of the thematic shotgun approach when it came to assigning touchdown drops to Brandon Marshall. People get a theme in their heads about a guy and then they just start seeing what they want to see in every play that even looks like it might possibly fit. In some of those "missed" tackles, there wasn't a miss at all it was Te'o being blocked by linemen.

He had one bad game against the best offensive line in the country which DOMINATED the Notre Dame defensive line to the point where they got linemen out onto Te'o CLEAN on most run plays. When you do that as an offensive line, you are forced to accept that some of the blocks you're asking your linemen that aren't releasing to execute are difficult and the defensive lineman may be able to squeeze the hole or disrupt the play. Also with Bama keenly focused on getting a body onto Te'o that should have opened up either another linebacker or Zeke Motta to make plays in his stead. That didn't happen. At all. It was the offensive line equivalent of a defense stacking 8 or 9 men in the box and the offense not being able to do anything in the passing game to make them pay for it.

 

I don't know about that last sentence. Most NFL teams would probably take Alabama's OL over their current OL.

 

I know saying this is probably out there, but yes I probably would say I like Minter more than Te'o, especially in terms of value. Minter is more of a playmaker in my eyes and is better at getting to the QB. I think they are fairly similar in terms of defending the run, slight edge to Te'o. In terms of defending the pass, edge to Te'o. Minter is a great prospect and is rather have him around 25 than Te'o around 10ish.

I agree about the SEC putting talent on the defensive side of the ball but I still think their offenses are most similar to the NFLs offenses, with terms of how talented their OLs are and their spacings and formations as a whole conference.

 

If we are talking playmakers, give me Ogletree over either Minter or Te'O. I like all 3 though and would be happy to have any on my team. My concern is with Minter coming out and being smaller than listed (which is usually the case with LSU linebackers recently), in which case I doubt we'd even consider him.

 

I know many like him but I don't see it with Minter.

 

I like Olgetree a lot too. I'd also prefer him later on in the draft compared to Te'o super high. Minter's weight is there but idk about his height.

 

Have you seen his tape against UF?

 

Cyrus Kouandjio the left tackle is a future 1st round pick, probably a very high one. He absolutely shut down Sam Montgomery when they faced. Chance Warmack is Chance Warmack. Barrett Jones is nearly as good. D.J. Fluker may not quite be a 1st round pick as Brent Musberger said but if he's not then he's probably a 2nd round pick. And it's not just the OLs either because TE Michael Williams is probably the best blocking tight end in the country and personally I think he might move to OT in the pros.

It's not just about getting guys out to the second level to be able to take on linebackers. It's about timing and spacing. From a timing standpoint, I didn't really see many combination blocks where an OL would initially combo with another OL on a DL, and then get out to the second level. Instead you saw clean releases. And also from both a timing and spacing perspective, these second level blocks and clean releases weren't necessarily zone plays where you get everyone on the move and it can take a little bit for your OLs to reach the LBs in the second level. This was mostly shortest distance from Point A to Point B, straight up iso blocking.

The up side to doing that is you effectively get bodies on linebackers very quickly, and make life really difficult for them. The down side is that you're creating the opportunity for their defensive linemen to disrupt the play.

But that's where the dominance of the Alabama offensive line over the Notre Dame defensive line really kicked into high gear because the Notre Dame defensive line just couldn't win. They had favorable situations to where they should have been able to disrupt the ground game based on the blocking scheme, they just couldn't do anything against the Bama line. That's where I mentioned before it wasn't just about timing, but also spacing. Wins by the offensive line in those tough situations create spacing and make it really difficult. And also, with the blocking scheme you have to be able to disrupt the backfield with your defensive line and create timing issues for the execution of the play which allows your linebackers enough time to defeat those iso blocks and get to the ball. Never really happened.

As for what I was saying before about Manti Te'o and his "missed tackles", on one touchdown in actuality Anthony Steen came out to the second level, tripped and fell to the ground, and reached up with his hand and tripped Manti Te'o as he was scraping toward the linebacker. It should have been a penalty, instead it was a "missed tackle" by Te'o and proof how overrated he is. But most people are going to look at that as a miss by Manti Te'o. They're not going to see Sheldon Day's completely blown gap responsibility, or the missed opportunity for Louis Nix to disrupt the play in the backfield.