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Karlos Dansby

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by ckparrothead, Jan 8, 2013.

  1. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Apropos of nothing in particular (no news), I just thought I'd start a new topic of discussion.

    I have a sneaking suspicion about Karlos Dansby potentially being jettisoned by the team this off season. I'm not saying it WILL happen. I'm saying it COULD. There are circumstances that are suspicious to me.

    Let me get this out of the way. He was by no means a bad player this year. In fact, I thought he was pretty good. He wasn't "the problem" or anything like that.

    That said, let me bring up some issues:

    1. Salary Cap Dip: There's something suspicious about the numbers you see on Dansby's salary breakdowns via Spotrac and Rotoworld. His base salary in 2012 was $8.8 million and jumps all the way down to $6.05 million in 2013, then back up to $9.05 million in 2014. This could just be a foible of the contract. But these sources like Spotrac and Rotoworld aren't always the best at capturing stuff like option bonuses or roster bonuses. The dip in salary makes me wonder if a roster or option bonus is due this off season that would make his 2013 compensation commensurate with his 2012 and 2014 salaries. Even if this is not the case, the sudden drop may be intended to make him a more attractive trade candidate for some other team, as he would only cost that prospective team $6.05 million in 2013, and they would have a year to evaluate whether he is worth his $9.05 million salary in 2014, and/or to re-negotiate his contract to get that number down.

    2. Attitude Problems: The guy badmouthed the Dolphins' management at least twice this year, in public, to the media. You know that grates on Jeff Ireland and I'm sure it doesn't impress Joe Philbin, either. He originally badmouthed them about the Chad OchoCinco thing. And then he badmouthed them to the media again later in the season about not having Cam Wake and Jared Odrick in for a couple of snaps against the Patriots. He's a big time talker, likes to talk about how he's the best ILB in the league. Also, he revealed to the media his torn biceps muscle, which SOME teams consider to be a big no-no. I don't know if the Dolphins under Joe Philbin are that kind of team but previously it was the case under Sparano. Dansby said, "It limits me sometimes, but it is what it is. I want to win. We have the opportunity to get into the playoffs. Why not play with it?" Consider Joe Philbin's reaction to this when it happened and he had to field questions about it. I thought it sounded very cool and unsympathetic. "All players deal with different things, and there are no excuses in the program. We wouldn't put a player out there if he couldn't physically play. It's really a non-issue." The Dolphins have to recognize that Karlos Dansby is a leader on their team. He was voted a team leader last year despite showing up to training camp 26 lbs overweight. He became an immediate candidate for the three-man representative "leadership council" that approached Philbin and Ireland in the wake of the OchoCinco termination. Of the three, he's the only one that couldn't keep quiet about it to the press, and while Reggie Bush represented himself very well in the request for a meeting and discussions on Hard Knocks, Karlos Dansby was silent to their face and just stewed a bit. And even after he'd gotten a talking-to about his media rant, later this year he did it again. At this point there's some thought to the idea that the Dolphins' brain trust may think he's the wrong kind of locker room leader for the team.

    3. Production: Like I said, I personally believe he was pretty good and still is pretty good. However, do they think he's worthy of his $8.6 million salary cap figure this year and more importantly his $11.6 million salary cap figure in 2014? You could build a case for a "no" on this one. Not sure I would but the case is there to be made based on production, and you never know if the Dolphins are buying the case against him, especially given his tendency to not play by their rules with respect to criticizing the team to the media and not revealing injuries. Forgetting for a moment the PFF ratings which I'm not convinced any team uses (note in Phil Emery's explanation in which he cites PFF and STATS Inc, he cited their statistics not their ratings). Go off statistics. Dandby ranked 33 out of 95 ILBs/MLBs/OLBs in solo tackles per missed tackle, 35 of 95 in tackles per snap, 60th in pass yards per snap, 68th in INT surplus (INTs minus TDs), 77th in pass yardage per snap, and 79th in sacks-hits per snap. The stats suggest he was a decent, not necessarily great, run defender this year...and that he really had a very bad year (for him) in pass coverage. Anecdotally that matches up, IMO. He seemed to do pretty well against the run but I'm not used to seeing him struggle in coverage the way he did this year. In the past he's been amongst the best in that regard. You do end up kind of wondering, with this guy having finished up his 9th year in the NFL, and about to turn 32 years old in the middle of the 2013 season...are they going to take a hard look at how he did in coverage and decide that he's not able to be the coverage linebacker that he's always been in his career?

    Again I want to reiterate this isn't about what I would do. I'm not saying I would do this. I'm openly wondering if they would do it. You don't hear them talk up Karlos very often. You don't hear them fawn after him. I think it's safe to say he's pissed them off at times this year. And I found Philbin's reaction to a question about Dansby's torn biceps to be pretty cold.

    Does that give them the excuse to dump a 32 year old highly expensive player that is showing signs that he might not be able to cover like he used to?
     
  2. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    I think I speculated about this happening earlier in the season. But he really hasn't been all that healthy, and Kevin Burnett has played very well which makes losing Dansby an easier pill to swallow.
     
  3. SICK

    SICK Lounge Moderator

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    If we do, we must replace him.
     
  4. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Problem is you're creating another hole that I'm not sure has an easy fix.

    Maybe a restructure is more likely, presuming he goes for it.
     
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  5. DolfanTom

    DolfanTom Livin' and Dyin' w/ Ryan!

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    I'd keep Dansby for 2013, but if they draft a capable replacement, or a cheaper - decent - option becomes available in UFA, then I would not be shocked to see him gone. I do think 2013 would be his last year as a Dolphin, though.
     
  6. emocomputerjock

    emocomputerjock Senior Member

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    Let the Austin Spitler era begin.
     
  7. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    The team would need to address the position for sure. But I don't know if it would be necessary to bring in someone of Dansby's ability. I don't think its the end of the world to start Burnett, Misi, and even Spitler. What it would really come down to is what would the team do with that money? Would the defense suffer more without Dansby, or without Sean Smith?
     
  8. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If the opportunity presents itself, I think it's possible they will replace Dansby. I think finding a replacement is problematic- It will be hard to find a linebacker who does the same kind of things, and if you don't do that, you're taking tools away from the defense.

    I don't think you can say Dansby was bad in coverage by any means. He gave up some yardage, but the Dolphins ask a lot from their linebackers in coverage. There are a handful of linebackers in the NFL you could ask to do the same stuff and get markedly better play. Going from sugaring gaps to dropping with the same depth and same coverage assignments Dansby and Burnett draw are a bit difficult to replicate.
     
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  9. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Just looking around at the different numbers on Dansby, it looks like cutting him would result in ~$6M of dead money, with ~$4M in cap savings.


    Base salary is 6.05M. Prorated signing bonus is 2.35M. Workout bonus of 200k.
     
  10. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Not sure it's worth it in that case.

    We have plenty of cap room.
     
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  11. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    If you can trade Dansby plus a pick for a pick higher than #12... welcome aboard, Te'o.
     
  12. DolfanTom

    DolfanTom Livin' and Dyin' w/ Ryan!

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    Do we want Te'o, though? After last night, I have serious concerns with him as a first rounder. I know he'll still go in one, but SEC football is the closest thing he's seen to an NFL running game, and last night did not look all that pretty.
     
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  13. GridIronKing34

    GridIronKing34 Silently Judging You

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    Better get comfortable with Karlos on the roster then. :lol:

    I think we'll let his contract play out.
     
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  14. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    They definitely won't let him finish out his contract. In 2014 his cap hit will be ~$12M, and cutting him would only result in ~$2M in dead money. He'll either be extended or cut.
     
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  15. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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  16. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Also, for salary cap stuff about the AFC east, nyjetscap.com is really good. They're much better than Spotrac. Only downside is that theres only information about the AFCE.
     
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  17. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    I don't think he is worth 8 million but wtf how the hell are we going to have any shot at playoffs if we keep losing players.Already lost marshall,davis,maybe smith,hartline and long.We can't add mlb to our list of holes to fill.Give him 1 more year and then dump him and draft a middle mlb in 2014.
     
  18. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    I don't think you saw my tongue in my cheek there. :up:
     
  19. CrunchTime

    CrunchTime Administrator Retired Administrator

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    You mean welcome aboard, Jarvis Jones :wink2:
     
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  20. I can see them trading him if they got good compensation for it but I can not see them cutting him outright. They have +20 players entering FA this offseason. They have plenty of work to do just figuring out who to resign and who to let walk. They might do it, if it would free up some money for them (50 million is not a lot to have) and net them a few picks or players in areas of need.
     
  21. GridIronKing34

    GridIronKing34 Silently Judging You

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    I think if they were to cut Dansby, it'd happen in 2014. They'd save around $9M with around $2M going against us as dead cap.
     
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  22. NorFlaFin

    NorFlaFin Active Member

    Maybe trade him to Packers for Jermicheal Finley, both teams get a rent-a-player for year.
     
  23. PhinsRDbest

    PhinsRDbest Transform and Transcend

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    the next dimension
    Mauluga?
     
  24. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Just say no. Off-field, he's a handful. On-field, he's been awful.
     
  25. emocomputerjock

    emocomputerjock Senior Member

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    Mehaluga.
     
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  26. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Rey Maualuga..-26.2?!?!?

    Wow.

    As for the subject, I've thought this for a long time but was razzed about it, think he is a good player also think he is merely "good" not Buoniconti/Offerdahl/Thomas quality.

    Interesting that Ck's guy last yr, Antwan Barnes is also a UFA and coming off of a bad bad season per PFF
     
  27. Onehondo

    Onehondo Senior Member Club Member

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    We need a dominate linebacker, someone who can influence the outcome of a game. I don't know if we should let Dansby get away yet but we could certainly plan for the future. Jarvis Jones is going to be that sort of player, one who can have an impact on the outcome of a game. He probably wont fall all the way to us but it would be nice to have him fall in our lap.
     
  28. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    No secret how I feel about him relative to his payday, it was a bad contract and we can't really justify cutting ties until 2014.

    Maybe he will play with some energy and inspiration trying to convince Miami to honor that ridiculous base salary after this year.
     
  29. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Maybe, you know, he'll make some plays for a change..that would be a nice start.

    Granted he has rarely been in full on "Crowder chases Te after long reception" position, however "game changing plays" on his resume in Miami is mighty thin.
     
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  30. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Maybe Philbin put in the first nugget to this with the talking up of Josh Kaddu. That seemed well out of left field.

    What if both Burnett and Dansby are gone next year? Neither are that athletic for the price they command.
     
  31. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    The lack of making plays is what's frustrating...he and fellow defender Sean Smith both had opportunities to change the game in what was our biggest swing game of the year. We just have no playmakers in the back 7 save a mini run by Jones.
     
  32. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Me?

    No. I'm not doing anything. I'm a weatherman making predictions on chance of rain.
     
  33. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Don't shoot the weatherman.
     
  34. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    One point to make on the timing of a cut.

    $6 million is $6 million in today's NFL. Timelines have been flattened to a horizontal stripe. Year-to-year considerations are less now because any given year you can carry over whatever you didn't spend on the salary cap into the next year.

    That's one issue I see with people assuming Miami will make big splashes in free agency this year. Yeah they may have $60 million or $50 million or whatever. Nobody says they need to use it all. They could use $30 million this year and carry $30 million into next year, for all we know.

    So when you look at Dansby's salaries and see that he's making $6.25 million this year (w/ workout bonus) and cutting him would result in $4.75 million cap acceleration which only saves us $1.5 million in 2013...whereas if you cut him in 2014 when his salary is $9.25 million you would save $6.9 million...that's not the right way to think of it anymore, IMO. The right way to think of it is purely whether that $6.25 million is worth it or not because $6.25 million of money saved is $6.25 million of money saved.

    By cutting Dansby the Dolphins would take $15.5 million of salaries off their books in 2013 and 2014. The question they'll be asking themselves is whether that's worth it.

    Sometimes like to cut players about a year or two years ahead of when you feel like you have to cut them. If Dansby is losing his former A+ coverage ability because he's 31 years old going on 32 years old, the Dolphins might consider themselves in that territory, cutting the guy a year before he becomes a problem.
     
  35. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    Ellerbe got a big boost to his profile after the playoff game this week. With Lewis retiring, it's hard to see Baltimore letting him walk. He Misi and Burnett could be a solid three LB's IMO. He is a bit on the stocky side though.
     
  36. P h i N s A N i T y

    P h i N s A N i T y My Porpoise in Life

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    Yes he's supposedly a leader and we can I'll afford to lose him.... but he IS in the same mold as Marshall,V.Davis. I had been considering him for surprise cap casualty of the year, but that 6.25 figure looks fair. Regardless, We need a talented young Lb in the draft...... This year. Perhaps Teo is there at 12 now, & Jarvis jones could be better than him. I think it's more a need than DE, and unless the right pass rusher is there, if not Cb, LB could be the pick. That could make Dansby expendable. Atleast draft someone later on that can replace him in 14'.
     
  37. cuchulainn

    cuchulainn Táin Bó Cúailnge Club Member

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    People said we would be lucky to win 3 games this season after dumping BMarshall, trading away VDavis, and starting a rookie "WR" at QB. We went 6-10 with them and veterans Henne/MMoore at QB. Not only did we surpass the predictions, we had a better (albeit still losing) record.

    As for Dansby, I stopped supporting him last season when he showed up almost 30 lbs overweight and didn't get back to form until mid-season. That is no leader.
     
  38. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Kevin Burnett had a really excellent year and Josh Kaddu is probably not a candidate for that position. He was a rush linebacker in college.
     
  39. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    I'm warm to it actually... he's 32 and not getting any younger. This guy was a playmaker in Arizona. He ended a playoff game all by himself. He hasn't done **** in the playmarking department since he got here. He is a faster Channing Crowder with better play reading skills. I want a Bowman/Willis combination at linebacker, who doesn't?

    So how much would he net in the trade market? a 5th or 6th rounder perhaps? Anything at all?

    And then the question becomes do we actually have a replacement on the roster in Koa Misi? Can he drop a little weight and play in the middle of the defense? I think he could. He's a smart guy who could call the defense and recognize plays in the middle. Do we then slide Vernon into Misi's strong side position? Vernon/Misi/Burnett? And then you look at the draft to build your depth.
     
  40. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    You have a different definition of excellent.
     
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