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Is Ryan Tannehill Going to Become a Franchise QB?

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by shouright, Jan 5, 2013.

  1. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    So Brandon Marshall is good for 11 points in QB rating, including 21 points over a nine-game stretch? :huh:
     
  2. CrunchTime

    CrunchTime Administrator Retired Administrator

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    There is a school of thought that you should draft a QB every draft .The Pats did ok with 6th round pick Tom Brady .Not everyone gets so lucky but if you have too many QBs you could trade one for a position of need .
     
  3. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I mean Hartline had 1 TD and few yards last year. How would you rate it? Again look at VJ vs BH and their QB ratings.
     
  4. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    Carpenter was 80% from that range this year. And you do realize that one of Vinateri's kicks this year to win the game (Minn) was 53 yards, right? Luck could have gotten the team closer but didn't. Reality is that RT played as well as Luck did this year. I would argue that with the amount of help they received respectively that RT played better.
     
  5. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    Honestly, I thought Newton was spotty this year. I would rather have RT than Newton going forward. But that wasn't really the question above. The question was about "certainty". My point is that "certainty" is very elusive. I would say it has more to do with the last thing you saw rather than on anything objective when it comes to franchise QBs. If you were basing it on just stats then you'd probably be just as confident about RT as you are about Luck. If you're not then you're adding in some very subjective criteria. I am very high on RT and I wouldn't draft a QB high, but I'd draft one in the mid-rounds if there was one I liked. And I'd do the same thing If I were managing Carolina, Cincy, Pitt, NO, etc.
     
  6. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Glennon does not impress me very much. I've seen him projected in the 1st in several mock drafts, to teams such as Buffalo. We could only hope that really happens.
     
  7. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    IMO, for most it is based on hope and faith.
     
  8. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Dunno about FinD specifically, but after the '09 season, Henne received at least as much praise and proclamations around here of the QB spot being set as Tanny does now.
     
  9. Kud_II

    Kud_II Realist Division

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    Short answer: NO.

    Long answer: We got a lot of other needs to tend to. Give Tanne a chance, if he doesn't work out we look at drafting a QB again in a few years.
     
  10. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    Not a few years. You can't wait that long to see if the lights come on. You give a QB 2, possibly 3 years if there's improvement. Take a look at the Jets to see what happens when you wait too long to move on from a failed QB project.
     
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  11. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    I would suggest you correlate your measure with QB rating, first off.
     
  12. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    Zero interest in Barkley. Have never, ever seen the reason people are enamored of him other than the fact that he was USC's starting QB with a great set of WR's. He has an average arm, imo, and he would be another Mark Sanchez.

    I'd take a QB with good size and decent arm strength in round 4-6 depending on how well we filled needs in FA and round 1-3.
     
  13. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Why the hell would I do that? My score is about taking the QB out of the equation to show the WR's skill level without it being colored by the QB.

    Seriously, how is anyone supposed to get any kind of WR specific numbers by including the QB?
     
  14. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Well that's two diff arguments then. I can't say RT would suddenly be better if he had better wrs. I'm saying that his results would improve, or as you'd say, his QBR would be higher. That doesn't mean his skills improved but it does mean more production, which I think is the overall point if the discussion if I'm not mistaken.
     
  15. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    WR is the hardest position to breakdown, so many variables play into their success or failure.
     
  16. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    I'm wondering where the logic comes from that you can hedge against a first round bust with Stephen McGee. If you busted out in the first, imagine trying to get someone better than the guy who had the physical talent to become a first round pick. The best, and nearly only way to hedge against a bust of a QB is to sign a solid veteran.
     
  17. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    So the conversation has moved on from Ryan Tannehill, I take it?
     
  18. unifiedtheory

    unifiedtheory Sub Pending Luxury Box

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    This.

    Having a young starter and a young developmental quarterback as the third guy is how it should always be. It's not like we are going to draft a quarterback in the first round. Pick a guy in the 5th, have him run the scout team, hit the books and see what happens. It's a late round pick.
     
  19. unifiedtheory

    unifiedtheory Sub Pending Luxury Box

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    Do yourself a favour, stop paying attention to Omar.
     
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  20. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    From the fans he did. But from his teammates and coaches, no. Pennington was still the QB in the team's eyes and Henne was anointed the starter against their wishes, without earning it. Add in his mediocre play, failure to improve, lack of wins and leadership ability and its easy to see why he was let go in retrospect.

    RT came in late, blew away the competition, earned the job, the respect and support of his team and coaches in a way Henne never did. If he doesn't improve then he might see the door as well but given the lack if experience and weapons its hard to predict that he won't get better.
     
  21. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    Mother of Crom...
     
  22. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't say he blew away the competition. One legged David Garrard was set to be our starter until his leg fell off.
     
  23. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    No way will we be drafting a QB in the 2nd round, nor should we, regardless of who's there, including Matt Barkley. If he's available at our 2nd round pick it won't be b/c every team miraculously forgot he was still on the board, just as the first 21 teams of the '07 draft didn't forget Brady Quinn was still available.
     
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  24. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    If Ryan Nassib falls to the fourth round I would take him.
     
  25. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    QB value in the 4th round is perfectly acceptable, especially when we have two 2nds and two 3rds.
     
  26. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    When I said "correlate it with QB rating," I meant that you should in fact see what that correlation is. Of course you'd want there to be not much of one, based on the theory of your stat. This would give it discriminant (or divergent) validity.
     
  27. oakelmpine

    oakelmpine New Member

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    Not with what I saw of Barkley this year. 3rd round maybe, definitely if he dropped to the 4th, but that won't happen. Someone will take him before the 10th pick in the 2nd round I am guessing.
     
  28. MAFishFan

    MAFishFan Team Tannehill

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    The Dolphins are in this position because for years they failed to draft a QB to groom behind Marino, save Scott Mitchell and well, we saw how that worked out. Take a QB later in the draft every year. Is there a chance Miami could STILL be in this position if they took QB's every year to groom behind Marino and they all failed? Sure. But looking at who Miami has passed over in the draft and missed in FA, a QB drafted every year wouldn't hurt. I like Tannehill. I think he showed flashed this year of what's to come. But if your positions of need are filled and there's a QB out there as a luxury pick, draft him. That's not an indictment of Tannehill, it's just smart drafting. IMO
     
  29. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Bingo..besides that he can also push your starter if he improves.
     
  30. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I can't agree Rafs, I saw Luck, make plays that Rt didn't, they usually were from the pocket, it seems to me there's a bit of uncoordination within the pocket at this point, luck, Wilson, Kaepernik imo are far ahead of Tannehill in this dept, which essentially makes them very dangerous when protection breaks down, I didn't see enough quickness or good peripheral reactions back there, I thought he stumbled into some of his runs, instead of recognizing things instantly and attacking the Los..beasically, I just want to see much more quickness and coordination within tight quarters.
     
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  31. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Jmo, he blew away the competition in camp, he really had an impressive training camp, and his talent level was obviously on another level , I think that's why I'm a bit disappointed with his season..
     
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  32. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    That "uncoordination within the pocket" consists of spending too much time on the first read IMO. He's getting "stuck" determining whether that read is a viable option, and then when he decides it is not, there's a world of activity going on, in terms of the rush coming at him, his other reads, and whether he's going to run or pass, that he then suddenly has to assess and make decisions about.

    QBs who aren't still adjusting to the speed of the game are able to make a decision about that first read based on less "visual data," and consequently they spend less time on that first read, and don't yet have a barrage or a flurry of activity going on around them that they have to quickly assess and make decisions about. It's still relatively early in the play, there is less going on, and they can calmly go through the remainder of their progression.

    Tannehill "stares down" that first read for too long, which effectively eliminates a host of other options he has, as the game moves quickly along at a speed at which he himself is still too slow to match. If he could make a more efficient decision about that first read, and not have to gather so much "visual data" about it, the "tight quarters" you mentioned wouldn't be so tight at that point, and he could comfortably assess what's going on and make decisions about it, without having his "quickness and coordination" (your words) compromised by the frenzy of activity around him.

    This is a typical rookie growing pain, and if we weren't so hell bent on blaming all the players around him, we could more easily "see" it, and it would be a greater topic for discussion, rather than the supposed problems with his "lack of weapons," and by extension, Jeff Ireland. Instead of talking about what's truly going on with our rookie quarterback, we're taking the easy way out and blaming everyone but him, believing he would just walk on water if it wasn't for all the crap he has to suffer, through no fault of his own.
     
  33. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    Are you as high on him as you were on Chad Henne?
     
  34. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    That's still no excuse to hold your franchise hostage for an extra year or 2 if the guy at the most crucial position isn't getting it done. It's the job of any team's GM to keep addressing the QB position until it's solved. You don't wait for a guy to suddenly get it.

    It's a passing league. It's easier to pass. The QBs who are going to be able to hack it in the NFL will demonstrate the ability quickly. Luck, RG3, Wilson. And before them Ryan, Cam Newton, and to a lesser extent Matt Stafford and Joe Flacco. Just a few examples. It's hard to say about Tannehill right now. He flashed a lot of potential in his rookie season but the production was not there. As you said in another thread, year 2 is going to tell us just about everything this team needs to know.
     
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  35. JMHPhin

    JMHPhin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Raf can answer for himself, but Raf never said Henne was a franchise qb. He said we coulf win withHenne and that he could be a good qbb but had limitations
     
  36. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    That is correct. I always stated that I didn't think Henne was likely to ever be a franchise QB. I do think you could win some with him. I believe that if he had not been injured last season we still would have gone on that winning streak at the end. I don't believe Moore played any better than Henne did in those first three games. I think the big difference was that the D got into game shape. But with either Moore or Henne, the ceiling was likely the same. You'd have a QB who was good enough not to lose games and even win a few if the rest of the team was good, but he could never carry or elevate the team like a franchise QB does. I saw Henne as good enough to hold the spot while you looked for a franchise QB.
     
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  37. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I believe your onto it Doc..spot on actually imo.

    That prolonged read is getting him in trouble, it's why he looks lethargic after he realizes the first read is not gonna be there, the transition mentally to what he needs to do next, is slower than I would like, he's got to be able to learn to do two things at once, see the read, and know what he's gonna do if the read doesn't look good, right now it's one thing..

    This is why it looks slow sometimes, that speed transition from realizing the first read isn't gonna work out, to seeing your angles for which to run, needs to get a lot quicker.

    Cap, Wilson, are superstars because of it, on Sunday watch how fast Cap realizes the first option is not gonna work out and how he attacks the LOS...Watch how comfortable and in control he looks when that first read goes bad..there's precise movement, whether its finding some space to reset and fire, or seeing an angle on the field to run, there's an awareness of multiple options that Ryan just doesn't have at this point.
     
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  38. JMHPhin

    JMHPhin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Exactly it goes back. To the fiedler arguments, efendding fiedler meant i was bias and was a fiedller lover,, no my point was you want to reace him with guys not substantially better or better potential. I am all for upgrading but it needs to be an upgrade. Change ffor the sake change doesnt mean its an effective changee
     
  39. JMHPhin

    JMHPhin Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Its the argumrnt that if you arent bashing him it means you beleieve he is great. No gray areas only horrid or great.
     
  40. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Watch how fast their receivers get separation.

    I just don't think when you have a rookie QB where his coach says he knows what went wrong before he gets to the sidelines, that the major issue is his reads and the speed with which he makes them.
     

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