Ireland: Egnew's going to have a good season.

Unless the whole line blocking scheme changes and Jake Long isn't really suited to the change. Why would that be Ireland's fault?

 

True, but Sect made a point to ad in "and he performed well elsewhere.", so that would discount injuries. You have to learn to speak Section...there's a trap or an escape route in every post.

 

You can look at it that way as well.

 

escape route or not, (it's a qualifier) good players just don;t leave after their first contract, for the most part. 3 in 32 years?

 

Bo was a #1 overall by the Bucs. He never signed, played baseball instead, and reentered the draft the next season and was taken in the 7th or thereabouts by the Raiders.

 

Jake played in a zone blocking scheme at Michigan. He made his reputation that led to being taken #1 overall in a zone blocking scheme.

 

That's really ridiculous. It can very easily be the right decision to draft a player, and then a right decision to let them walk at the end of their rookie contract, and it really isn't hard to figure out. You can evaluate Jake Long's talent if you have any sense, and the decision to let him leave or not. It doesn't require an intellectually lazy blanket statement because you want to make a bad point about Jeff Ireland.

 

Your defense of Jeff Ireland is leading you to argue against trends that have held for over 30 years.

Just a fact. Good players are retained, save for 3 in 32 years. Teams just don't lose players like Jake Long. You seem to be preemptively excusing it.

 

Your "trend" is meaningless and contrived. It's no different with any player drafted #1, top 10, in the first round, or anything else. It's bull**** you unwittingly stumbled upon that puts things in a specific light that you're interested in, nothing else.

Every year lots of high quality players make it to free agency. That is not a reflection on how good a decision it was to draft them, it is a reflection on if it is more valuable to retain them or not. They are separate decisions that are not difficult to evaluate independently.

You should probably Google the concept of "sunk costs". It's very basic economics(or wait, are you an expert there too?)

 

Section shoots.... and score

 

Really? Do you think that it's reasonable to suggest that a GM be held accountable for a guy who has injury problems when there was no reason at all to anticipate them when he was drafted?

 

It doesn't matter if he was injured or not, you don't build your franchise around around a left tackle.

 

I don't care what your personnel draft philosophy is, explain to me why it makes sense that Ireland be held accountable for the injuries of a player when they for all intents and purposes should be unforeseen?

 

If he is not resigned, you believe it will be due to his recent injuries alone?

 

Yes, essentially.

But even if it was not that case, it's not difficult to envision scenarios where both a decision to draft him and a decision to let him walk at the end of his contract are good.

 

I think that if Jeff Ireland set fire to the Davie facility, that you would defend it as long as I was against it.

and I am an expert in everything that you are not. That is my position on that.

 

I don't

 

Steve Young as well, in that odd "USFL/CFL" draft of 1984, he went #1 overall.

 

One is overlooking a key factor in about half of those 32 yrs:

No Rookie Salary Cap

Basically, those guys were uncutable during the non rook cap era.

That is one of the factors from 08 and right now, Long made 11.2 million, he is worth maybe 2/3rds of that or about 7 million or so, possibly less just based on his health.

 

That wasn't as funny or insulting as you wanted it to be, you should probably also defend the points you ostensibly think are good.

 

This is silly.

Even if Jake Long had never endured an injury as a Miami Dolphin, the team still would've suffered the same fate: A mediocre record. This is no fault of Jake Long.

But the more people defend picking him over Matt Ryan, the sillier it becomes.

I, for one, was in favor of taking Long over Ryan. I was wrong. Jeff Ireland was wrong. Section was wrong. The refusal to admit it at this point is quite sad. And it gets sadder every year that we see Matt Ryan get better.

 

Yes...he should have been traded....case in point.....

Richard Seymour, pretty much the same exact thing as Long....drafted early in the 1st round, got injured, knew they werent going to resign him, and going into a walk year....

BB--doles him away for multiple high level picks.....

Irish--remains to be seen but it doesnt look good....

you have to know when to pull the trigger....the window is small....I was saying to trade Long at the beginning of the season, along with Bush.....

 

That isn't what DPate is asking.

You're also making an assumption there's some huge market for Long. There may not be.

 

This is like saying someone should try to win the lottery. You rarely will have the luck to find someone dumb enough to make that kind of trade.

 

The truth is that it really depends on what Tannehill becomes. If he ends up better than Matt Ryan, then passing on Ryan wasn't even necessarily a mistake based on hindsight. Atlanta has no Super Bowl appearances or wins with Ryan and just got their first playoff win with him less than 2 weeks ago. Matt Ryan is a good QB and he proved some things to me this year, but he wouldn't have had the same skill position talent here and therefore probably wouldn't have been as good.

 

Matt Ryan has brought his team to the playoffs 4 of the 5 years he's been in the league.
He's gotten better just about every year, and is continuing to improve.
He had his team in prime position to go to the Superbowl this year.

I'd kill to have Miami be a perennial playoff team that has a shot at going to the Superbowl every year. Matt Ryan is the primary architect behind that.

It wasn't until Atlanta knew what they had in Matt Ryan before they went out and acquired him the necessary weapons (Tony Gonzalez, Julio Jones). I think Matt Ryan would've been pretty good with Marshall, Bess, Hartline, Ronnie Brown, and Ricky Williams.

I hope Ryan Tannehill can be that type of guy that's going to lead Miami to the playoffs 80% of the time. But right now, all it is is hope. Meanwhile, for Atlanta, any year now could be their year. And this year, they were a play or two away from the big game.

 

For finD and myself, from MR C..

"Another team wouldn't have to take on the 1 year Franchise player salary, unless after we Franchise him, Jake immediately signs the tender. Then we are pretty much stuck with him for a year. If he doesn't, another team could negotiate a long term deal, reach a trade agreement with Miami, if it is other than the standard Franchise player compensation, then a trade and sign takes place."

 

I'm not sure if you're saying Irish should have made those moves or if you're admitting you were wrong. The latter I hope.

 

it wasn't insulting or meant to be funny.

I don't have to defend anything. The scoreboard is in my favor, unless you pop bottles with every 7-9.

 

This is what an interesting point looks like.

Good point. That is a factor. But only a factor for the years that there was a cap.

 

That is weak even by your standards.

The Dolphins being 7-9 has nothing to do with the idea that Jake Long was a failed pick, if letting a draft pick walk constitutes a failed pick, and in no way suggests that the measure you came up with has any value whatsoever.

 

This debate is ridiculous.

When healthy, Jake Long is among the top two players in the league at his position. Matt Ryan is not. In fact, Matt Ryan probably isn't even the best quarterback from his draft class. That may actually be Joe Flacco, who has more playoff wins and has now lead his team to the Superbowl. If a mistake was made, the mistake was not being aggressive enough in getting Joe Flacco, which is the quarterback Ireland wanted in that draft.

 

That's actually funny by your standards.

The Dolphins being 7-9 has nothing to do with Jake Long "maybe" becoming a failed pick. It does however point to Jeff Ireland being a failed General Manager. The greater point that you refuse to grasp or accept.

 

well there you have it...

Matt Ryan isn't "all that much".

psssst... He played in an offense with no running game whatsoever. I wouldn't call that "stacked".

 

Only the most homeristic of Dolphin fans at this point can claim with a straight face that Jake Long over Matt Ryan wasn't a mistake. It's no longer a debate. History has proven Parcells/Ireland's mistake to be a fact. Even if Jake Long was the best Left tackle in the league it would have been a mistake based on what Matt Ryan has done.