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Laconfora says " it's highly unlikely"we sign Reggie.

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by djphinfan, Jan 28, 2013.

  1. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    No, but thats my point. The teams in aggregate need to spend 99%. So if half the teams spend 110%, then the other half doesn't have to spend close to 99%. Their minimum is 89% IIRC.
     
  2. Caps

    Caps Movimiento Juvenil

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    I agree, I'm not saying not to sign Reggie if he wants to play here for reasonable money. I'm saying the cupboard isn't bare at the position, and people immediately jumping at the chance to use this story to bash Ireland are making themselves look like caricatures.
     
    Clark Kent likes this.
  3. Alex13

    Alex13 Tua Time !!! Club Member

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    we have lots of money to spend and lots of picks available i wouldn't call it impossible, but it will be tough no question...but if thats what we need to do that philbin gets his players, then thats the way we need to go
     
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  4. CANDolphan

    CANDolphan Well-Known Member

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    Reggie has made it sound like he's willing to be reasonable with his demands. Honestly, I think this article is showing people where their bias lies. If you are biased against the team, they are saying Reggie will likely want not much yet Ireland will LOW BALL HIM GODDAMN YOU IRELAND AH ****ER

    If you're overly critical of players, you're going to say good, let the guy walk, we shouldn't overpay him. When in reality, we have no idea what Reggie is willing to take. The cut off for Reggie, IMO, is right around Hartline. 4 - 4.5 million per year. The difference? 2 years for Reggie vs 4 for Hartline. That's where I'm comfortable.
     
  5. Die_Nasty

    Die_Nasty Well-Known Member

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    I don't want us to sign Reggie Bush if its as an every down back. I would pay and play him as a situational player, a la what he was in New Orleans.

    I'm sorry I'm just not game for the continual runs for loss, I'd prefer rolling with Miller and Thomas TBH.
     
  6. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    he can walk, yet another in the long list of expendable dolphin free agents.
     
  7. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    I just get the sense that Philbin never really liked him.
     
  8. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    This is the trap that I think people fall in though. By focusing on the resources, you're taking the chances out of the equation. You're kind of assuming 1-for-1 return on investment. Historically that has been a BAD assumption. Any time you're acquiring new players, ANY time be it Draft or Free Agency, you're losing value on your buck due to uncertainty. That's just a fact. And surprisingly, "proven" free agent pickups can display even higher bust rates than high draft picks. At least, in Miami they can.

    So given what I just said...do you think Miami can fill all those liabilities with the resources at their disposal?
     
  9. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Are you excited when the team finds themselves down by 2 touchdowns with 5 minutes left in the game and the ball in their hands? That makes you excited for their prospects of winning the game?

    Because those are about Miami's chances here. When you've got to replace half your team in one off season, you've got to muck through UNCERTAINTY and LOSS on your investment dollars. That is what's being understated here. Everyone is thinking ok $6 million here for that position, $7 million here for that one, as if you're definitely going to get your investment back. Well, let me tell ya...you're not. History says you're going to get significantly less than HALF of your investment back for free agent dollars and draft picks.

    Just think back to like the expansion teams and expansion drafts and stuff. Was it fun to try and build a team from scratch in one off season of availabilities? Hell no. Even if you manage to strike quick lightning (see: Miami, 2008), it doesn't necessarily last.

    I don't think Miami is in an enviable position at all. I think they're in a rebuild which means we're in for more losses, more questions, more misery, and more "Fireland".
     
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  10. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

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    Reggie Bush ran through holes just fine when he had them. His runs for loss were an effort to make something out of nothing. People act like he avoided running through obvious holes... Lamar Miller and Thomas didn't fair any better. The top 5 backs in the NFL weren't going to do much better behind our run blocking. And unlike our current roster, Reggie actually made big plays.

    And I really hate this "situational" player nonsense. And the two back system, tbh. Reggie is a guy who's going to play better and better down the stretch with the more carries he gets. And it only increases the odds of him busting one big. 20 carries a game is the right amount for a guy like him.
     
  11. Den54

    Den54 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    AMERICA!

    Your final words here reminds me of this scene.

    [video=youtube;W46-qpi10ZU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W46-qpi10ZU[/video]
     
  12. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    How man times did we see Thomas with two gaping holes on either side of his blocker or an unblocked defender, and he chooses to ram his guy (or the defender) right in the back.
     
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  13. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That doesnt really answer the question of whether Miami should compound past mistakes by overspending to keep those players? You just stated that you lose on your investment dollars in FA so we should overspend to keep mediocrity? If Im overspending its on Mike Wallace not on Sean Smith or Reggie Bush.

    IMO, you're looking at this completely wrong. You talk about how we have to build like an expansion team and take on a bunch of high priced players. I respect your opinion, its usually an insightful one, but we're talking about an offseason in which we have at least 9 picks (comp pick pending) and 46M in cap space. We have a bunch of team friendly contracts still on the books and the ones that arent team friendly (Soliai, Dansby, etc) pretty much come up in the next year or two. Based on Ireland's previously history, some of which is debatable about who did what with Parcells around, he likely wont spend huge in FA. That could be a good thing even if it means no Mike Wallace or Greg Jennings as it makes next years job more enviable. On the other hand if Ireland hits one out of the park and has a great draft then we're all happy because the team is better. Additionally, its already being speculated http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap10...-bushs-future-with-miami-dolphins-looks-bleak) that the Lions and Bengals will be after Reggie Bush. If we dont spend a lot of cap on FA's and instead pursue players who may get cut we may be in line for significant comp picks next offseason as well.

    You know as well as I do that RB is a plug and play position. Unless you have an elite player you dont invest huge dollars there. If the Packers can go in to a season with Alex Green, James Starks and Cedric Benson we can go in with Lamar Miller and Daniel Thomas, Marcus Thigpen and either Jonas Gray or some low cost FA signing. IMO Thigpen can handle the special teams responsibilities Bush could assume and be better at it. Miller should be the one handling the ball 15-18x a game but it wouldnt surprise me if Daniel Thomas made a jump.

    We've been in a rebuild the last year. I don't know why you haven't seen it that way but its true. We were cap-strung last offseason and unable to improve a below average team except through the draft. Now we have more draft picks and a ton of space. You use Free Agency the way it was intended signing 1-2 big name guys and sign a few mid-level guys like a Sebastian Vollmer or a Gosder Cherilus and a Chris Houston or DRC who are good players and fit a need players and will cost less then our own FA's (Long and Smith) and supplement it with the draft. If we do that we will be better then this year even we lose Long, Smith and Bush. Why overpay to keep players who simply brought you to 7-9 when they have serious questions and concerns?
     
  14. finfansince72

    finfansince72 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'd like to keep Reggie but with all of the players we have to resign, all the holes we have to fill I think we will probably just draft another RB in the first 4 rounds and go with what we have already. Besides if we aren't going to use Reggie a lot more in the passing game then I don't want him here, its not his fault that we don't but his best plays are in the open catching a ball in space. He should also be used in the return game IMHO.
     
  15. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If you think losing a 4.3 ypc back with huge consistency issues is going to keep you on that wheel, it's way more likely you're misjudging the situation than it being the straw that broke the camels back
     
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  16. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Way less often than we saw vision related issues from Bush.

    Miami would be better off with Thomas averaging 3.6 yards a carry at his level of consistency than we would be with Bush averaging a yard per carry more at his. The guy simply killed drives, and I don't think it was even close to the number of drives his big plays bailed out
     
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  17. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Show us the stats.
     
  18. CANDolphan

    CANDolphan Well-Known Member

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    Im stunned that someone is genuinely saying "Yeah you might get one less yard PER CARRY" while defending Daniel Thomas. Holy ****, REALLY? So stupid.
     
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  19. Triggercut

    Triggercut Well-Known Member

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    most of you wish you were able to lowball some guys. jealous?
     
  20. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Sure. 37% of Bush's runs came off of 15+ yard runs. Of the guys ahead of him only Chris Johnson wasn't hugely more successful on a per carry and attempt basis. Basically Bush was **** unless he was breaking a long run and the frequency of those runs didnt make up for the other stuff. Bush was also one of the most stuffed backs in the league, while Thomas was one of the least-stuffed.
     
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  21. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    Daniel Thomas sucks.
     
  22. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Thomas only had two runs over 10 yards last year. Give him the same amount of carries as Bush that works out to 4 carries over 10 yards. All year.

    That is Poe-thetic.
     
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  23. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    Sad but true.
     
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  24. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    True but at the same time Ben-Jarvis Green Ellis had a career long of 17 coming in to this year and hes not pathetic. Thomas has good vision and can be an effective grinder late in games if he learns to secure the ball. He just may never be a gamebreaker type
     
  25. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    .....
     
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  26. NolesNPhinsFan

    NolesNPhinsFan New Member

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    Not hardly.. Miller is unproven, Thomas just got another concussion and fumbled, and Gray hasn't taken a NFL snap.. Not comfortable at all.
     
  27. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Padre hasn't looked around to see how many teams have yet to sign their contract year guys.
    He's also fooling himself by thinking our owner is a cheapskate.
     
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  28. CANDolphan

    CANDolphan Well-Known Member

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    You're saying that losing a 4.3 ypc back is not a big deal while, in the same breath, talking about how a 3.3 yard per carry back is a much better idea because he doesn't get stuffed as much.

    How do you not understand just how illogical that is?

    Not only that, but you're negating a huge problem - Thomas is injury prone (moreso than Bush), fumbles the ball with a really concerning degree of frequency, and is nowhere near the 3rd down back Reggie is. Plus he doesn't provide the special teams capability.
     
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  29. CANDolphan

    CANDolphan Well-Known Member

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    Also on what planet is Paul Soliai's contract not team friendly? That's just so off the wall I dont even think I can be objective about any opinion stated after it.
     
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  30. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Would you pass on Eddie Lacy in the 2nd for signing Reggie?
     
  31. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Why is that clear? I do not see such indications.
     
  32. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    They benched him several times.
     
  33. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    Yep and remember we don't sign high-priced FAs and Karlos Dansby only exists in the Matrix.
     
  34. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Benched him or rotated him with the other backs? I recall only one time, after a fumble, where he remained off the field long enough to be considered a benching.
     
  35. Phinastic

    Phinastic Active Member

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    Fine, but draft Giovanni Bernard out of UNC
     
  36. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I agree that this team needs better players than the present Dolphin free agents. The Dolphins have had a losing record for the past four years and the vast majority of the teams free agents have been on the roster for all four of those years. Bush has been here only the past two years and the Dolphins have been a sub 500 team in both those seasons. As you stated, this team needs better players on the roster. All the free agents for the Dolphins have shown over the last four years is that they are good losers. It is now the time to bring in some winners.

    Unfortunately the person responsible for selecting these new players in the draft and in free agency is the same person who has been the teams GM for the past five years. As long as Ireland remains the Dolphins GM, the only thing Dolphin fans can look forward to each year how high the team will be selecting in the next draft. The only hope for true Dolphin fans is that Ross will finally see the light after the 2013 season and finally get rid of Ireland.
     
  37. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He does.

    It's not at all illogical.

    Getting a consistent 3.* yards a carry is better than a ****-load of negligible to negative gains when your offense is dependent on sustained, longer drives. Unless the long runs that Bush produced to look like a halfway productive back completely flipped field position or resulted in a score, they weren't nearly as helpful a more consistent running game would have been.

    Thomas is absolutely injury prone, and fumbled too much. I'm not saying Daniel Thomas doesn't suck, because he absolutely does.

    Bush is a **** third down back, though. He's not Darren Sproles or Ray Rice, nor is such an amazing threat in the slot that for some reason no one bothers to line him up at. He's good with the ball in his hands in space, but he's got neither the instincts, nor the number of well-run routes to make it happen. Him catching a wheel route over the shoulders every couple of months shouldn't fool you, he doesn't get open on his own underneath bailing the quarterback out, he can't catch swing passes in-stride worth a ****, etc. and so on.
     
  38. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He was pretty widely acknowledged to have been benched. He also spent a whole lot of time getting shuffled out of the rotation because he was ineffective, lost his role as playing 3rd down back for a time.

    I think it's pretty safe to say there's an issue when the coaching staff pretty much shelves a fundamental part of their scheme at times because it was clear that Bush wasn't getting any better at zone blocking.
     
  39. WhiteIbanez

    WhiteIbanez Megamediocremaniacal

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    Lamar Miller is a leap of faith. Let a leader walk.That will be a mistake.
    I'll say it right now.
     
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  40. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That's basically it. He doesn't have the vision for zone blocking.

    He doesn't have to be a great one-cut back to be successful, but you've probably got less example of Bush hitting a cutback lane on the back side of a play quickly and decisively the entire season than a back on a Shanahan-style team has in a good game or two. There was entirely too much of him just racing to aiming point of the play trying to outrun defenders instead of finding a lane, or even worse trying to reverse field when that didn't pan out.

    I'm sure if Bush goes to the right team he'll have some success, but you're basically getting a narrow range of plays he excels at that you're constantly going to have to micro-manage, and even then the really productive patches depend on him deciding he's going to run hard between the tackles, which you can't really bargain on week to week.
     
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