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Hartline wants 5-6 million per season

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Perfectville_USA, Jan 26, 2013.

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  1. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    No. I didn't figure the defense was throwing the wide receivers their passes. ;)
     
  2. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Like I said, IMO, it depends on the scheme he's in and who's starting opposite him.

    Hartline is quite similar in value to Kevin Walter who is a good possession receiver with a similar 8.21 YPA but only 2 chunk yardage TDs the past 4 years...... however, Walter has 24 TDs over the past 6 years.

    There are easily 40+ receivers I'd take before Hartline & Walter, but that's just me. The SB competing Harbaugh brothers seem to agree with me, as their recent offseason acquisitions were of the playmaking variety rather than great route runners who lack playmaking ability.
    Mario Manningham
    Randy Moss
    AJ Jenkins
    Braylon Edwards
    Jacoby Jones
    Anquan Boldin
    Torrey Smith
     
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  3. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Go look it up yourself. The study conducted at the University of My Eyes says Lance Moore >> Brian Hartline. Any statement to the contrary is ludicrous IMHO.
     
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  4. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    Hell, if there are so many, and they're so egregious, why don't you just let them speak for themselves? The fact that you feel the need to highlight so prominently the inconsistencies you believe exist is an inconsistency in itself! :lol:
     
  5. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Well, Tannehill could go out before every home game and mow the grass down to stubble, so Hartline does not get tripped by a blade grass.
     
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  6. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    LMAO!

    That's so hypocritical of you. I hope you know that.
     
  7. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    Whatever you say. Just try to come up with some relevant data and better conclusions next time. Thanks for playing.
     
  8. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That could help.
     
  9. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Right and your expected points to start the play are higher the closer to the end zone you are.
     
  10. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Walter makes $21.5 million over 5 years. That should be the ceiling for Hartline.
     
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  11. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    You're welcome. :)
     
  12. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    Any time.
     
  13. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    You are assuming I always totally agree with or back up all my opinions by what PFF says? How insulting.
     
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  14. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Kevin Walter is a good comp. Adjust what he got 3 yrs ago for inflation and that is likely what Hartline will get.
     
  15. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    More correlations:

    TD passes to wide receivers with win percentage = 0.43

    TD passes to wide receivers with win percentage, controlling for total TD passes = -0.03

    Clearly, when you control for what the QB can do in terms of throwing for TDs, the effect of the wide receivers in that regard is eliminated.
     
  16. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    b/c when someone repeatedly tells us lava is cold it's impossible to not respond. Not doing so is like resisting to look at a 10 car pile up. :p
     
  17. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Hey, if we can get Hartline at 4, I'll be delighted. Just wont be pissed off if it's 1-2 million higher.

    Can't believe THIS topic went on for 40 pages.
     
  18. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    IMO, Hartline will get equal or less b/c his affinity for scoring is slightly less.
     
  19. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    Funny. My take on it is that your subjective belief is that lava is cold, and you're only a bit of objective data away from realizing it's hot. Little do I know. :)
     
  20. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    You should also conduct that study with your sister school, The University of Your Glasses. :shifty:














    J/k. I agree with you, pappy.
     
  21. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    How so? Did Clean make a previous argument of Lance Moore being inferior to some other team's possession receiver?
     
  22. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    No worries; I'm sure your patients don't know the difference. :)
     
  23. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    Patients? :headscratch:
     
  24. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    yeah, you know- those people who lay on your couch and pay you to not fix their problems.
    Is "customers" more appropriate? lol
     
  25. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    Sounds like you know little about what I do.
     
  26. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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    Good examples and interesting comparison. Hakeem Nicks can definitely make some big time plays. One would think his career stats compared with Hartline would be like comparing Barry Sanders with Daniel Thomas. Yet for their career:

    Hakeem Nicks: caught 58.48% of passes targeted, 14.6 ypc, 8.54 ypa
    Brian Hartline: caught 56.13% of passes targeted, 15.0 ypc, 8.44 ypa

    Taking into account Nicks has a future HOF QB throwing him the ball and Hartline has had Henne/Moore/Tannehill throwing him the ball these stats would be completely lopsided.

    Maybe there is something to be said for a WR that does his better work before catching the ball by running solid routes so he can catch the deep ball vs. a WR that relies on short passes and using his wheels?

    Throws over 31+ yards this year:

    Nicks: 0 for 7, 0 yards, 0 TD
    Hartline: 5 for 11, 247 yards, 1 TD

    I would definitely think signing Nicks for $5-$6 million per year would be wise. Unfortunately, he isn't available like most big-time playmakers and the few that are aren't likely to sign for $5-$6 million per year. Which gets back to is Hartline worth that? I don't see how a 15.0 ypc and 8.44 ypa given Miami's other skill players, a young QB that appears to rely on Hartline, and the lack of available talent doesn't make $5-$6 million a fair contract. Particularly considering he should be entering his prime at age 26 and 5th year in the league.
     
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  27. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That's not why.
     
  28. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    So i'm clear. Hakeem Nicks is not as good as Hartline because their career catch rates and YPA & yards per catch are similar. But he's not better because his career TD total is 27 & Hartline's is 6.

    What planet am I on?
     
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  29. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Are you assuming that just because I am old enough to be your daddy that I suffer from astigmatism? :unsure:
     
  30. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Maybe he is like Dr Frasier Crane and just gives advice to callers on his late night AM radio show.
     
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  31. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Then why? I am puzzled too. How am I being a hypocrite to say I think Lance Moore is a better WR than Hartline?
     
  32. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I know you know why, but I'll explain it anyway.

    In the past, you have always deferred to PFF and their ratings. When someone's argues against them, you then begin to question if they have watched every snap of the player and graded them like PFF. Now that it's been turned against you, you don't care about it and trust your eyes.

    The funny part is, I wasn't even serious about the PFF thing. But it is interesting how you react when it might work against you.
     
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  33. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Unreal.
     
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  34. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    When it gets to the point where any stats suggest Hartline = Nicks as an NFL WR, the thread has reached the point of total absurdity.
    Like Mark Twain said, There are lies, there are damned lies, and there are statistics.

    If it were possible to poll every coach in the NFL and ask which one is better, I am sure that 100% would say Nicks is definitely.
     
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  35. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    If only we had some type of process where coaches and players could vote for players they feel are exceptional.
     
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  36. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I just like to be clear how much someone has watched a player to arrive at their opinion. I doubt many have watched every play by every player that they express a strong opinion about. PFF at least gives us their honest opinion of a player based on going over every play. That may not make them right, but at least there is some substance behind what they say.
    Since you asked before, Lance Moore's PFF rating was 12.9 and tied for 15th best WR. Hartline was a 7.1, and 37th overall WR. So, I guess it wasn't turned against me after all.
     
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  37. AdamC13

    AdamC13 Well-Known Member

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    Your own? Where did I say Hartline is as good as Nicks?

    They are different types of WRs. Hartline gets most of his yards before the ball gets there. Hicks has the speed to take a short pass the distance. Signing Hicks for $5-$6 million would be great, but he is not available. I think I have been pretty consistent in just saying I think $5-$6 million a year is a fair contract for Hartline which is what the title of this thread says he wants. I have used stats to support that.

    I also think he is a better WR than his 1 TD this year most posters seem to think defines him. Looking at a WR without taking into account the QB throwing him the ball is like looking at a RB without taking into account the OL. It matters. He caught 3 TDs as a rookie on 31 receptions and I actually think he is a better player now.
     
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  38. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    And Devery Henderson?
     
  39. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    You certainly implied Hartline was better with this:
    And why, in the name of god, did you purposely leave off TDs?
     
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  40. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    If Hartline were under contract, and the Dolphins called the Giants and offered him straight across for Nicks, Jerry Reese would laugh himself silly, and if you care to accept reality, you'd agree that to be so.
     
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