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Laconfora says " it's highly unlikely"we sign Reggie.

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by djphinfan, Jan 28, 2013.

  1. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm torn on it from that perspective, really am Nez, I just don't see what I want to see as a running back, there are serious weaknesses in his game, and I can't let some flashy runs take over what I feel about the rest...this is a tough one.
     
  2. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Sure about that? I've got BGE with 28 carries over 10 yards, average of 14.4 and long of 33 in 2010, his best year.

    http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/splits/_/id/11754/year/2010/benjarvus-green-ellis

    Where are you coming up with this good vision stuff? He's a decent north south runner, and I'm no guru, but I question his vision. I've seen him ignore a hole and take a defender head on a few times already.
     
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  3. WhiteIbanez

    WhiteIbanez Megamediocremaniacal

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    Take a Reggie Bush away from this young QB at this point could be problems. We will go back to lame production at the RB position IMO.
     
  4. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    We have to essentially gut our entire secondary, receiver corps, running back corps and o-line. How can we win next season? I don't see it.
     
  5. WhiteIbanez

    WhiteIbanez Megamediocremaniacal

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    No reason to set your hair on fire. There is a bit of a rebuild happening. Keep the core here.
    I get it.
     
  6. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I disagree, I think you give him more well rounded consistency and it will be better for his development..

    And I think now is the perfect time while he's establishing his own leadership..
     
  7. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Not seeing it Deej, removing a game breaker from the offense in the hope Miller can fill his shoes?

    We were a good, not great team in 2012 with those guys, and as Ck points out the draft and FA is not likely to replace their production, this is why I suspect 'rebuild land"

    Our real hope is pretty much Tannehill finds his inner Marino in 2013.
     
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  8. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Watch video of him in college. His game was very much instinctual and the ability to pull off some nicely timed moves. He made good decisions and good cuts, and that's enough to be quite successful in the absence of outstanding speed or power.

    If I had to guess, the early emphasis on him becoming a power back was problematic. He's more concerned with lowering his shoulder pads and running hard than he is doing the stuff that comes natural to him, and instead he's failing miserably at the power stuff and getting hurt doing it.
     
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  9. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    What we've got now is lame production.

    If you wanna help out Tannehill, get a back who isn't so frequently leaving you in a hole in third down with an inability to keep you from getting killed because he can't block.
     
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  10. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    Isn't Stephen Jackson a free agent? That would be a guy I would look into.
     
  11. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I like DTrain more than some do, but he is getting dinged an awful lot.

    To me, this is the real issue with him, if we let Bush walk, and DTrain goes down again, we are down to Miller/Thigpen
     
  12. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    we were a good team with who?.. Surely not last year..

    I'm willing to gamble on the position and stay young, you really can find good running backs in the most peculiar areas, I don't think Reggie's game makes it that hard to gamble..I could be wrong Pod, but I so want something else from the position, something downhill, something one cut with explosiveness, something highly highly aggressive.
     
  13. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    how bout Montee Ball?
     
  14. CANDolphan

    CANDolphan Well-Known Member

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    I just flat out disagree. Before his injury to the Jets, Bush was looking unstoppable. When he was running between Long - Incog - Pouncey, he was churning out massive gains. Our unit fell to **** and he wasn't seeing holes because they simply didn't exist.

    If Daniel Thomas didn't have fumble issues, I'd be all for keeping him. I like Daniel Thomas, I really do. He just runs too high, and gets himself killed.

    I think Bush is a guy who can get you 4.0+ ypc again next year, and I think his ability in the flat make him deadly . He's being somewhat misused, as already stated, and the coaching staff admitted that. I just don't like the message we are sending getting rid of a guy who is not only our our best playmaker of 2012 by a real team guy.
     
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  15. thisperishedmin

    thisperishedmin Well-Known Member

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    Might have come up in the thread already...but what are the thoughts on Jonas Gray? Does he come in healthy this year and give us that consistent hard runner we need, with Lamar for change of pace?

    I love Reggie - I honestly do...but he hasnt found a fit in this system/offense. He breaks them off yes, but he lacks in consistency that we so dearly need. I'm torn on if Id keep him around, take him for a home town discount, or just let him walk and hope our young guys work out / go for a TE/WR with the money. Tough call honestly...wouldnt want to be Our Local Dolphins Fan Forum's Favorite GM on making this one. Its lose/lose for him.
     
  16. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You're right about the long run....it was for 2011 I was thinking of. Still, thats a lot more touches then D Train had with a long of 18. Would you call him a bad back? They're already rumored to want Bush to be the lightning to his thunder. If youre going to have split backfields thats a good way to do it.

    As for Thomas, D'Pate says it very well below....ZBS's are timing based not power or speed based. Miller already understands this and thats one reason Im so high on him. Bush got the memo but hes simply not that style back. But I think if Thomas gets his confidence back and gets back to what hes good at he can still be a very good player.
     
  17. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    If he does lowballs him like Long or lets say not even offer him a contract altogether, why didn't they try to trade him? He went animal mode and was leading the league after the first 2 weeks.....

    oh yeah they must have believed Miami had a legit shot at he playoffs, don't want to give off the wrong impression to that vaunted 30th ranked attendance that shows up 8 weeks a year.
     
  18. CANDolphan

    CANDolphan Well-Known Member

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    Because Ireland doesn't have the benefit of hindsight, like you do!
     
  19. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    Also, his WPA was poor, which suggests his stuffed runs had the effect bolded above:

    http://wp.advancednflstats.com/playerstats.php?year=2012&pos=RB&season=reg
     
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  20. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    He doesn't play like a leader, though. When you're playing like a leader, you hit the holes you're supposed to hit because doing so is consistent with what the other 10 players are being asked to do by the coaches, and it gives you the greatest chance of being successful.

    Bush not only does this far too infrequently, but he chooses not to do it at times when the team needs only a yard or two to sustain a drive or kill the clock, often at critical times in games. That represents a "me first" rather than a "team first" mentality IMO.

    Sometimes you have to put your personal agenda to improvise and reel off a long run aside, hit the hole you're supposed to hit, gain just a single yard perhaps, get a first down, and help your team kill the clock to win a game. It's as if Bush is so self-absorbed in his running style that he's unable to appreciate how he fits into the bigger picture on his team, both overall and in specific situations that arise in games. That can't possibly represent leadership IMO.

    He may work like and give the effort of a leader, but he doesn't play like one on Sundays IMO, and for that reason I suspect it's hard for him to be viewed as one overall by his teammates or his coaches.

    And with that, I'm far less torn on whether to sign him to a contract. IMO you move on with Lamar Miller at RB and find your player leadership elsewhere, that is unless Bush is willing to sign for an amount that's consistent with the limited role he should have.
     
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  21. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I think BGE is an okay back. Never was that impressed with him. And as of now, he's really a one hit wonder. New England desperate for a run game let him go. 3.7 ypc will do that (DT with 3.6 ...). He's not a bad back, and I venture so far he's been better than Thomas. But I don't think he's great. He certainly wouldn't be my #1 option at RB. Neither he nor DT excite me. Lamar Miller gets me excited. Bush has gotten me excited.

    And I did watch a bit of film of DT in college and I saw a back that wasn't fast, or powerful, and got caught from behind quite a bit. I hope he proves me wrong. If he proves himself to be a 4+ ypc grinder, cool.

    I haven't seen that yet :)
     
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  22. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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  23. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    its funny, out of all of the young guys under contract who might have increased roles next season with the potential departures of all these core players via free agency, the only one i have faith in to step up and perform at a high level is Lamar Miller (which is why i don't care if Bush leaves). but can Charles Clay replace Fasano's production? i dont have much faith in Odrick to replace Starks inside...don't have much faith in Martin to adequately replace Long at LT...don't have much faith in Marshall as a starting corner whether we re-sign Sean Smith or not...definitely don't have any faith in jimmy wilson at corner or replacing Clemons at FS...

    i kinda agree with CK, it feels like we're going in circles...we have a lot of ammo to fill needs but:

    a) we have a ton of needs

    b) a big reason we have all this ammo is because we traded away really good players AND so many core players' deals are up which could lead to their departure which in turn just creates even more needs.

    it would be nice to have good, promising recent draft picks who have shown enough to warrant receiving larger roles after we lose key starters to FA....buuuttt we don't.
     
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  24. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't know if he was looking unstoppable, just way more successful. You can very much see the same problems early in the year. The first half of that huge Raiders game he was doing the same general stuff I'm talking about pretty badly. He had some success because he's physically talented enough he can make some plays outside of the scheme, but you can't depend on those.

    The Marcell Dareus quote I think is very telling because teams very much figured it out. Teams started crashing the front side of plays hard, and Bush wasn't making them pay for a lack of discipline because he wasn't hitting the cutback lanes that were there.

    I'm not sure 4.0+ yards per carry is that lofty an aiming point, and I don't think there has been any year Bush has been in the league where he's been said to be properly used. He's good at such a narrow range of things that it's going to be very difficult for him to have any sort of consistency.
     
  25. PhinGeneral

    PhinGeneral PC Texas A&M, Bro Club Member

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    Considering he was an UDFA and spent much of the year injured, it's a pretty big leap to expect Gray to become the featured back. If anything, I suspect he'd have to duel with DT to be the guy that comes off the bench.
     
  26. oakelmpine

    oakelmpine New Member

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  27. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    Yeah, my actual point was that according to the media types, Ireland won't be able to re-sign any of the pending FAs we have. This rhetoric is about who we will and will not sign, what they are all asking for, etc is just that....rhetoric...
     
  28. oakelmpine

    oakelmpine New Member

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    Believe it or not, I back Ireland on this one.

    Guys, right now this is Reggie's agent talking. This is the way negotiations begin.
     
  29. oakelmpine

    oakelmpine New Member

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    Exactly.....this is the beginning of negotiations.
     
  30. oakelmpine

    oakelmpine New Member

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    Pads, according to Mr Ross we are not rebuilding. He has said he wants to win now.

    Now either he is lying and we are rebuilding or Ireland has really screwed up.

    We may lose one or even two, but we if we lose all of them because of "lowballing" then their agents don't know how to play the "Negotiation Game".
     
  31. oakelmpine

    oakelmpine New Member

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    And all with Jeff Ireland at the helm, the man that picked the players that put us in this position in the 1st place.

    :up:
     
  32. oakelmpine

    oakelmpine New Member

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    Because Mr Ross said we need to win, and now.

    Although I do agree we are and have been in rebuild mode since Philbin got here, its just now obvious Ross was lying or in denial himself.
     
  33. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    The funny part is I'm not even necessarily saying that Miami should sign Reggie Bush to whatever it is people are thinking he'll sign for.

    I'm saying the entire Reggie Bush episode from start to finish shows what kind of hamster wheel the Dolphins have been on since this front office took over.

    The thing that'll really bake your noodle is when some of the very same people talking about what a ****ty runner Reggie Bush is and how a 3.5 yards per carry guy (who is also admittedly sh-tty) is actually better...and yet if you turn around and use the Reggie Bush trade/signing as more evidence that Jeff Ireland is bad at what he does...those same people will turn around and talk about how the Dolphins easily got their money's worth, and they'll cite touchdowns and yards gained, etc.

    Gotta love it.
     
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  34. oakelmpine

    oakelmpine New Member

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    Look at what happened in Philadelphia the last two years when they went all in on FA.

    Reid got canned. That is the latest example of a team built largely around FA. It's a real gamble to do it that way.

    Remember Shula's last team in 1995 ? It had like 15 or 16 former 1st round draft picks on it, and ended up 9-7 and out of the playoffs. It got a legend fired.
     
  35. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It's not really complicated. Bush is much better behind man-blocking plays than he is zone blocking, and an offense switching decreases his performance, and consequently his value to the team.

    It's the same kind of basic, low-level nuance that justifies the idea that both drafting Jake Long and letting him walk at the end of his contract are correct decisions.
     
  36. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    The last time Ireland had a lot of cap room, he blew most of it on contracts for mediocre free agents that we decided to keep. Hartline and Smith both fit the same mold, and I'd rather not overspend and make the same mistake twice. Long is debatable given his injury history, but since he's still relatively young, I'd take a chance on a 8-9 million/year contract with incentives for playing time. Bush, I have mixed feelings on. IMO, he carried us for a couple of wins last season. that's at least enough to make serious negotiations with the guy. but if some contending team like Cincy or non-contending team like Detroit wants to overpay for him, then let Reggie walk.
     
  37. thisperishedmin

    thisperishedmin Well-Known Member

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    Probably right...I'll continue to hope hes some kind of ridiculous Alfred Morris level of unexpected production next year though.

    The more I think about this team the more I'm starting to believe its another year of foolish hope. Jefe better play his cards right this offseason...
     
  38. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    He was a UDFA because of the late season knee injury. Had he came into the draft totally healthy and ready to contribute as a rookie, he'd have probably been a mid round draftee.
     
  39. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I thought that team made the playoffs but got blown out in their first game by Buffalo.
     
  40. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    As I recall, almost every year several of the pending UFAs will resign on the eve of free agency.
     

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