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Hartline wants 5-6 million per season

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Perfectville_USA, Jan 26, 2013.

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  1. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    I think you should spot him a few and double the number to 6 WR TDs.
     
  2. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    I can do only so much explaining to help people understand. At some point it becomes "believe what you want."
     
  3. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    Right. Move the goal posts and have me kick the field goal for you. :lol:
     
  4. I would just add to this, building on your short passing game explination of stats. The total number of offensive plays is also going to effect how many targets a player gets. Some of that comes from short passes that are used for 3rd down conversions. The net yardage gain is low but it moved the chains to reset the downs for the offense.

    If stats were the be all end all of predicting results then they would not need to play the games. Vegas would not be in buisiness if numbers could easily predict the outcome of the game and teams would never have bust draft picks.
     
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  5. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Oy vey. So does the QB still drive the bus once the ball is in the hands of the receiver? :001_rolleyes:

    Tell me, who's driving the bus here for 19 yards, Rodgers or Jordy Nelson?
    [video=youtube;JRLdtsVyOEs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRLdtsVyOEs[/video]

    How far did the pass have to travel?
    On a scale of 1-10 <10 being the highest> how would you rate the degree of difficulty of this throw?
    Did Rodgers drive the bus up to the front door, or did he stop around the corner and let Jordy hoof it the remainder of the way?

    We'll all be curious to see if you answer these questions. :p
     
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  6. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    You'd probably prefer that you touchdown hater. :chuckle:
     
  7. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    meanwhile here again is Hartline driving the bus..... waiting to get pulled over for a DUI.

    [video=youtube;xN-u0jn4z2M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xN-u0jn4z2M[/video]
     
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  8. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    It's more fun to play 'em back to back in the same post, for dramatic affect. lol

    Nelson
    [video=youtube;JRLdtsVyOEs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&amp;v=JRLdtsVyOEs[/video]

    .....Hartline
    [video=youtube;xN-u0jn4z2M]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&amp;v=xN-u0jn4z2M[/video]
     
  9. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    So how do these sorts of examples combine to form large-scale data that controverts what I said in the post you quoted? Or are they just single examples that for all we know could be exceptions to the rule in that regard?
     
  10. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    AdvancedNFLStats should change their url to UselessNFLStats.com as far as I'm concerned. I couldn't give a good gawddamn about EPA or WPA, other than Environmental Protection Agency and Work Projects Administration, and the former is a pretty much neutered govt agency, while the latter is history.
     
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  11. You asked for an example and I provided you with one. You want to agree to disagree with everyone, more power to you. But dont act like it isnt you that keeps reigniting the issue when you are the one that has been redirecting threads into this same recycled debate. everyone you are arguing with has told you repeatedly that they do not agree with you and they have told you why over and over again. At what point do you let it go and just accept that most people do not agree with you?

    You want everyone to prove to you that your wrong but then when they give you a response that I guess your uncomfortable with addressing you fall back onto telling them to agree to disagree or you become obtuse like you just did with me. Maybe your too close to it to see it but your the one coming into these threads picking fights that you know lead to these endless and IMO fruitless debates.

    Enjoy your war.

    I do want to appologize to you for not saying it nicer then I have in some of my past posts. I let my frustration get the better of me. I have no ill will toward you I just would like it if every thread that involves the name Hartline or Tannehill did not have to be hijacked into this same old debate.
     
  12. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    The Nelson TD shows just how stupid it is when people compare Hartline to him as for skill set. If Rodgers had thrown the same pass to Hartline in the same situation, he'd have been tackled just inside the 10. I can never recall him using his power to break completely free from a tackle attempt like Nelson did on this play. Of course some would be concerned with Hartline's EPA number on the play.
     
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  13. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Negative EPA on the play.
     
  14. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    haha. Who gives a **** about your "data"?! He scored a damn TD on 2nd & 4 and blew the game open, whereas Hartline would've left them in a 3rd down situation.

    I would've loved LOVED LOVED to have seen you approach Rodgers after this TD and asked him his thoughts about it in regards to your data and bus driving!! :chuckle: He'd tell you you're crazy for treating it so narrow-mindedly b/c he knows first hand <based on his surrounding cast> that you can't look at the so called "bus driving" in a vacuum the way you do b/c he knows in a productive offense like Green Bay's that everyone drives the bus.

    yeah, hundreds of single examples among receivers who've scored TDs with them behind the wheel, not the QB operating them with a joystick. :wink2:
     
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  15. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Yippee!!!:party:
     
  16. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    yup, if you watch enough games and know what you're looking at, the University of Your Eyes could provide a better EPA just by subjectively watching games.
     
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  17. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I picture those fans who delve into the sort of stats such as AdvancedNFLStats.com offers as being similar to the geeky scientists on The Big Bang Theory, but nowhere near as funny.
     
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  18. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Now, of course I don't have a QB rating as a control, or a bunch of correlations or a WPA or EPA to back me up on this, but I'd say just from the study I conducted at UoME, that Ryan Swope is a WR who may compare skill set wise to Jordy Nelson.
     
  19. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    So then it should be relatively easy to provide the data I'm asking for.
     
  20. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    I don't think my behavior is the topic of the thread.
     
  21. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    I agree. Hartline is like a smaller Jordy Nelson lacking athleticism & physicality. He's not even a poor man's Jordy Nelson, unless you count ordering off the dollar menu. Quality possession receiver, yes, but playmaker he is not. And that's not the only time Jordy scored a similar TD on that same pass call.

    • Here's another physical, Nelson stiff arm TD (0:51 mark).
    • Subsequent play: 80 yard TD reception on a 0 yard pass to Grant. Grant does all the work.
    • The next play: Nelson going over a DB for the 36 yard TD. (announcers seem to think Nelson was the biggest part of the play's conversion)
    • Following play: Nelson 58 yard TD. (Hartline would've either fallen down upon reception or dropped it considering his hands are nothing like Nelson's on contested passes. see the earlier clip where Hartline couldn't hold onto the short pass in the front corner of the EZ).
    • Next play: 35 yard TD on easy 6 yard underneath throw to Driver. Driver does the rest.
    Yeah, Shou's right, none of this helps the win column, and Flynn's QBR was entirely due to what he did on his own merit, right. :unsure: :lol:
    [video=youtube;7syu8TI1F5g]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7syu8TI1F5g[/video]

    How many TDs & yards did Packer pass catchers (including backs) score & rack up for the backup Flynn as he rode them to a narrow victory?
     
  22. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Back to the topic at hand....Hartline wants 5-6M. Enough bull....
     
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  23. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Too bad no one told that to Philbin & McCarthy before the play was called. Could've saved them a TD. :p
     
  24. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    BTW, how is that perceived as a negative EPA <in context of the stat I mean>? because it's a pass thrown behind the LOS?
     
  25. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    Have you noticed that you're incapable of providing anything other than single examples, without aggregating them into any meaningful, large-scale comparisons or analyses? That prevents you from drawing any solid conclusions. In essence you're always operating in the territory of what could be exceptions to the rule, without ever being able to prove they're the rule.

    The irony of it is that you use those single examples to "disprove" (i.e., in your mind) the kind of data that can determine the rule, and not just the exceptions to it. It's really kind of silly.
     
  26. I think he is a solid reliable reciever who has shown a lot of heart but I would not offer him more then 4M and maybe throw in a TD bonus incentive
     
  27. 54Fins

    54Fins "In Gase we trust"

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    over there
    Over 1,000 replies in this thread?
    That's like a 998/1 TD to post ratio.
     
  28. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    See, the problem with this is there's no one out there who actually questions or downplays a WR scoring a touchdown on his own merit, so no one has been dumb enough to collect all the data and waste their time just to show water is wet.
    Besides, you constantly ignore posts that don't relate to supporting your false belief.

    [​IMG]
     
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  29. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Because it was a fumble?
     
  30. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    :pointlol:

    Thats about right. Anything more then that put it towards Jennings/Bowe/Wallace.
     
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  31. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    If it's the equivalent of "water is wet," why is it so hard to provide the large-scale data?
     
  32. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Exceptions to WHAT rule? You haven't proven any friggin rule. You give cursory stats & data that mean squat without proper context.

    Just to play along with your dumb data, even if there is a .47 correlation, does that mean every team is .47, or does it mean some are higher, some are lower, and it averages out to .47?
     
  33. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    And we still have yet to compare Brian Hartline to the receivers who make the money he's asking for with regard to variables that correlate with winning! :lol: ;)
     
  34. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    You should stick to unleaded paint chips from now on.
    There's no f'n way I'm doing a very time-consuming, large-scale data collection just to show one or two people on the planet that receivers making plays for their offense is more conducive to winning than less. I'd rather let you go about your ignorance b/c apparently you're quite happy in that boat. ;)
     
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  35. I would not mind seeing anyone of those 3 here with Hartline and Bess along with a TE and I think we have a decent passing game. I like Hartline but he isnt good enough to carry our passing game all by himself. He needs more help then Bess.

    I'm really hoping either Eggnogg blossoms or they find an answer to adress or TE defincency. We need 1-2 good WRs and at least one solid TE.
     
  36. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Tell you what, you look up every receiver salary the past 6 years and post them, and then we'll take it home from there. :up:

    After all, you have the most to prove considering we've had 4 straight losing seasons with the scoring-deficient Hartline as a receiver, even during a year when the combined QBR was 85, a passer rating that Hakeem Nicks had no trouble squeezing 10 TDs from, nor the Giants winning 4 more games with despite having a scoring defense ranked 11 spots worse.
     
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  37. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    Sounds like we have a philosophical difference about what constitutes "solid evidence," and that's fine. :up:
     
  38. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Sorry, thought you were talking about the Nelson TD for a second.
     
  39. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    yeah ok, your baiting attempts fall as short as your argument.
     
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  40. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    What exactly would I be "baiting" you to do with that post?
     
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