Dolphins leaning toward Miller, as there starting RB for next season

Oh no I'm dead serious.
What has Miller or Thomas done to prove they are able to step up at the position?

 

This sounds like good news if they are serious. It could hint at the fact they know there isn't much variance between running backs and it wouldn't be the most cost effective move to give Reggie Bush a new deal when you have a much cheaper option in Miller. I hope it also hints at a stronger focus on the passing game.

 

And we really didnt see any of that this year, but the kid still had a 5 yard average, I honestly don't see how he did it..I mean if he had his balance, which he didnt imo, his average would of been higher, that's why I have some excitement about next year..

He's a player that I need to see carry the load for a couple games before we can know what we have.

 

Who is saying that? He is a guy who can compete for the role, and it wouldn't be too out of left field if he got it.

 

Good move if they do it.

This is what you do in the salary cap era if a team is managing it's roster well and drafting well.
You replace aging high priced vets with talented youth.
Have to keep churning.

Tough to do when you fall behind and have glaring holes all over the roster because of weak drafting which is what has killed this team for quite a while now.

 

What I'm saying is it should be regarded as that.

 

I think it's a good idea to part ways with Bush and let Miller be the featured back. He showed enough flash for me to believe that he can be a very productive back in the NFL. I could see Miller cracking 1400 yards in a healthy season behind a good O Line. I dont understand the worry about losing Bush. He was given every opportunity to produce for us and he did some good things but the bottom line is that Reggie never has and never will be what he was at the college level. In some ways I consider him a major draft bust. Back in 2006 I honestly truly thought we (NFL fans) were going to see the second coming of Gale Sayers, Barry Sanders, Marshall Faulk with Bush. The weird thing about it all is that Bush was not undersized at all...He is/was faster than those three guys I listed and just as elusive (Sanders still owned him but what the hell close enough). Bush had the makings of a hall of fame player! He literally was the chosen one coming out of USC. Dual threat thousand yard rusher, thousand yard receiver, punt returns, etc. He did some of those things but never dominated the way most of us thought he would. During his USC days I actually would wonder if the guy was really human.
He didn't pan out in New Orleans and the system was to blame. He had somewhat of a redemption season in 2011 with us but that 1000 yard season is a bit misleading. For about 11 games Reggie Bush didn't do crap for us and then he turned it on the last five games and got his 1k. People call him a game breaker and a home run threat but i'm willing to bet that Alfred Morris (a bigger power type of back) had longer runs than Reggie did this past season. I think we should cut ties with him. He's overrated and I don't think he's worth what he wants. I think Lamar Miller can do much better and be much more productive.

Someone mentioned that starting Miller is kind of like rebuilding??? I mentioned Alfred Morris in my last paragraph...Need I say more?

 

What I am saying is no one has ordained him the de-facto #2 back, but it is in the realm of reasonable possibility that he could earn that job in training camp. You said he's not a guy who should be treated as such, and from what I can tell, no one has treated him as such.

 

Thomas I can agree with you on. Miller has shown flashes that Thomas just hasn't been able to show.
Let me ask you...What exactly has Bush done to deserve this huge superstar contract that he wants? What has Bush done that suggests he can be a top notch back? This was kind of a make or break season for him in my opinion. He had like 6 good games in 2011 that enabled him to get 1000 yards rushing. All of a sudden he's elite? He frustrated me more than any player on the team this past year because he's so damn talented yet after seven years in the league he still hasn't figured it out, and at this point he's no longer on the upswing especially at the running back position. Tiki Barber was a player that really piddle pucked around in the league his first six years or so. He'd show flashes and then fumble the ball. Never seemed to be able to put it all together and then in 2003 he finally just got "it", and the rest is history. Maybe Bush can be like Tiki Barber in that aspect but I don't see it happening.
Since Bush has come into the league he's been injury prone, he blocks...but it's painful for him and it's painful for me to watch, he's fumble prone (The Titan game which was also the back breaker of our season), and he has shown time and time again that he's not an every down back and he's not a back you can count on in the guts of the game. Bush may catch 5-6 balls throughout a game but he's going to drop that last pass that gets the team a first down on a fourth down all or nothing play. Bush can rush for 100 yards in a game..But he's going to fumble on the goal line at some point. He's not even capable of carrying the ball more than 20 times in a game. The Raider game where he had 26 totes was a career high for christ sake! Thats the Reggie Bush I know a home run threat with a horrible batting average and a no show when the game is on the line.

 

how do you figure

 

i would be more than happy to let miller get the bulk of the carries.

 

Would anyone be surprised with this? It is the reason he was getting so many reps the second half of the season. It was very clear he was going to get every chance to be the #1 and that Reggie would be gone.

 

Relevant?

 

So you are putting a 37-3 loss on Bush? I understand the frustration.

The rub for me is that they seem to be snuffing out an opened ended situation.
Annointing an unknown back to replace a guy who makes plays will take time.
Apparently the commitment is there for the next guy. Regardless.

 

I'm torn b/c I can easily see Miller being as good or even better as a runner, but I also see value in Bush as a play maker. Sherman didn't start using Bush as a receiver until the end of the season b/c he was limiting the playbook for RT (as Sherman admitted). It wasn't until that point that we started to see Bush provide more impact. And we're a team which everybody agrees lacks play makers so dumping one of the few play makers we have seems counterintuitve.

 

It's not like that, i'm not putting the loss on Bush..He doesn't play defense. What I am saying is that his fumble in that game was the key contribution towards the momentum shift in that game. A lot of emotion is involved in football and something like a turnover can totally swing the game in another direction. In that game we were keeping it close, we started what looked like a promising drive and Bush coughed the ball up. I think the game really shifted after that turnover. The defense was tired and needed a break and we couldn't give them one. The team essentially quit after that play and the rest is a historic epic beat down that I have not witnessed since the 2007 season.
Too many times this past season one us on here wold say "Well the score should be this to this...but Bush (fill in the blank)".

Am I blaming Reggie Bush? No....We had a rookie QB throwing to no talent wideouts and a banged up offensive line that had mental lapses at times during games. It was a learning curve type season and unfortunately Reggie Bush is and should not have been part of that learning curve. He's going into his 8th season as a pro in 2013. I think it would benefit him to move on and play for a team that is in contention or has the chance to contend. San Diego would be a good fit for him with Phillip Rivers there.

In conclusion i'm all for bringing Reggie Bush back on the teams terms. The job does need to go to Lamar Miller without him looking over his shoulder. I'd still like to keep Bush and get him the ball atleast 12-14 times a game. 9-10 carries a game and 4-5 passes. I think that is possible for his skill set and it might keep his career alive longer. Bush being an every down back just isn't in the cards for him. For his sake and well being he should accept that offer and embrace that role with us to keep his football life going. If not we can always draft Kenjon Barner or give the job to Marcus Thigpen.

 

Where on earth is everyone seeing that he wants a superstar contract? A lot of agendas!

 

Bottom line for me is that I would not go to any expense to resign Bush but I would make him a fair offer to resign. Miami is a better team with him then without.

 

I also would make Bush a fair offer to resign. He is a playmaker, and the team needs as many of those as we can get. I would use him more as a threat in the passing game in open space. Miller will have all off-season and the pre-season to work on his pass blocking and blitz pick up.

 

I comfortable with Lamar Miller being the starter. I said going into the offseason that I'd gladly take Reggie Bush back if he is willing to accept a contract on par with what he will be, a 1B to Miller's 1A. If Bush wants "starter, Pro Bowl, 25 touch a game" money then let him walk.

Miller won't be the workhorse. I can see a situation where he is a 16-20 carry a game guy. I don't know if he can be a 3rd down back, we may need to find one (I think Daniel Thomas could be a 3rd down back but relying on him with his injury history would seem foolish). If Bush walks we need to find at least 2 situational runners. A 3rd down guy who can be mismatched and can protect the quarterback and a heavy duty goal line/short yardage back who can take some of the heavy lifting carries away from Miller.

We should have signed Darren Sproles but that is hindsight.

 

Well then, this is all the reason I need to hope they don't resign him for any amount, even the vet minimum.

 

Ding ding ding.

 

So glad we traded up to draft Thomas.

 

It was a bad draft for RBs as a whole, if you hadn't noticed. And we gave up a 5th and a 7th, not exactly back breaking.

 

This is why the salary is key IMO. If he's willing to sign for something consistent with the limited role he should have, you sign him. If not, you let some other team overpay.

 

I'm seeing quite a few that were taken after that look much, much better. Murray, Ridley, Roy Helu, Kendall Hunter... yeah. Ugh how ****ty was that move. I think if he didn't have the health issues he'd be a good selection but he clearly just does not have that style.

 

Still love seeing Thomas fake Revis out of his shoes.

 

Were they all taken after Thomas?

 

I have said all along that 2013 will continue to be a rebuilding year for the Dolphins. In fact I think they will be rebuilding as long as Ireland remains the teams GM. I just don't think he is capable of building a team which can be a legitimate Super Bowl contender. Hopefully the next GM will be more capable in building a consistent playoff contender, but with Ireland picking the players for this team, 2013 will NOT be the year they take a a giant step toward the playoffs.

 

Teams don't do full rebuilds anymore. There's always a certain amount of retooling when you change coaches and schemes, though. And once you have a QB then everything changes. We started our rebuild/retool when we hired Philbin. If RT works out then Ireland will be hailed and all the people trashing him will look foolish (well more foolish). If RT doesn't work out then most likely everybody will be gone and we'll start over again. But at the moment we're just continuing the retool we started when Philbin was hired.

 

I agree that how this team develops over the next few years will totally depend on how well Tannehill plays at the QB position. I think he can be a decent QB in the NFL, but I don't ever see him being a top ten QB in the NFL. I think he will be an above average QB at best. This is certainly an upgrade over Ireland's previous picks of Henne and White, but Tannehill is still a huge question mark, as far as I am concerned.

As far as trashing Ireland goes. All I have to go by is the five years he has been the GM of the Dolphins. The Dolphins have had four straight losing seasons with him as the teams GM. So while you consider my comments as trashing Ireland. I am merely expressing my view of the job he has done since he was hired as the teams GM in 2008. I certainly don't see any other GM's still working for an NFL team, which has drafted and signed players who have had losing seasons for the past four years.

If Ireland is able to draft and sign players who can turn this team around in 2013, I will be happy to admit I was wrong about him and will be willing to give him credit. I just haven't seen much in the last five years which makes me think he is a qualified NFL GM. It really doesn't take much for any GM to select players who are capable of being a below average team in the NFL. That is about all Ireland has accomplished in the past five years.

 

Yeah, they were. Not to mention Randall Cobb who was taken two picks later by GB. That was the pick if you were going to move up IMHO.

That said, I still think Thomas can compliment a RB like Miller. With continued development, they could make a nice tandem. I say go with them, and let Bush go.

 

Let's say there was a chili cook-off and you want to win the blue ribbon. What's the most important aspect to winning that ribbon: the quality ingredients or the recipe or the cook...or are they all pretty important?

Think about it, you could go in with your Uncle's amazing recipe and get low quality ingredients and a great cook, and you won't win. On the other hand, you could get the best ingredients there are and a great cook could use them in a horrible recipe, and you won't win. Or you could go in with a great recipe & fantastic ingredients and a bad cook burns the food and you won't win. Three completely different problems, yet same exact result.

You gauge the past 5 years and give no consideration of the recipe, only the ingredients. Why is that? Do you think the recipe was a great one? Was the cook amazing?

Now we have a new recipe and a new cook, and you're upset that all the old ingredients can't used, and use that as an indictment of the guy who buys the ingredients. It doesn't make sense.

 

You mention injury issues but bring up Murray and Hunter? C'mon man. Helu got beaten out by Alfred Morris, a 6th round rookie IIRC. And how about Ingram, Williams, Leshoure, Vereen, and Green? No world beaters in that group, Thomas has out gained all but Ingram. Call it it a bad pick if you'd like but you're being disingenious IMO. We needed a RB in a year where the crop of RBs sucked in retrospect. And keep in mind we got Bush for a 5th rounder so we basically got Bush and Thomas for a 3, 2 5s and a 7. That's good production considering what was invested. A little objectivity always helps.

 

Every RB I posted was taken after Daniel Thomas

 

All I know is that the same guy who has been mixing those ingredients for the past five years is still responsible for changing the recipe. I realize you think that everything will now be different because the Dolphins have Tannehill at QB and a new coaching staff.

I hope you are 100% correct in your feeling that Ireland will now start making good player decisions, after five years on the job. It will certainly be about time he shows that he is a capable GM. I just don't think he is capable of selecting play makers for the offense and until he proves me wrong, I have only the job he had done since he came to the Dolphins to go by.

As I stated earlier, I will be happy to give him much of the credit if the Dolphins make the playoffs in 2013. I just wonder if you will still be on the Ireland bandwagon if the Dolphins once again finish the 2013 season with another losing record? As far as I am concerned, if the Dolphins have another losing season and Ireland still has supporters on this forum. Those individuals are probably not real Dolphin fans and they only want Ireland to remain the GM so the Dolphins will continue to remain a mediocre football team. I have felt for some time that there are a lot of closet Jets, Patriots, and Bills fans on this forum and many of these individuals are big backers of the Dolphins keeping Ireland. Of course keeping Ireland benefits these other teams in the long run, as far as I am concerned.

 

I think the bold part is a little disingenuous. If we are going to analyze the draft pick then Reggie Bush has nothing to do with it. Also, Helu was fantastic at times last year and was only beaten out by Morris who is legitimately good. And I would still take just about all of those running backs over Thomas.

The real issue I have is that they traded up for Thomas, meaning they identified him as the best of what was left, and good enough to sacrifice more picks in getting. If he had fallen to them and they saw it as good value then so be it. But it just seems like a really bad call. In two years, Thomas has not shown me anything that makes me think he can be an above average runningback and that's a shame.

 

First - we got Bush for a swap of 6ths.

Second - Disingenuous? Oooook. Talk about projecting. Let's see... You're telling me that a guy who has sustained multiple concussions because of his running style - on THREE separate occasions - is the same "injury prone" as a player who simply was knocked out for the year because of ONE time bad ankle? Give. Me. A. Break! I flat out disagree with this.

I'm only comparing backs taken after Daniel Thomas. Ridley has looked fantastic. Like, world beater fantastic.

Third - You may want to check your stats or add some sort of guidelines because if you're telling me that Daniel Thomas has outrushed every RB taken in the 2011 draft but Ingram then... well... you're wrong. I have absolutely no idea where you got such an incorrect fact but google is a rather simple search tool to verify.

Also - I won't really delve into the logical fallacy that is combining selections but adding Bush's trade and production to make an argument for Daniel Thomas to be considered "good production" then YOU'RE the one being intellectually dishonest here. I mean, come on. You're sitting there saying you're being objective when in reality you're having to commit to olympic levels of mental gymnastics just to make your argument.

Also, that "6th round rookie" that beat out Helu? The guy with 1600+ yards and 13 tds? The ROTY/OROTY candidate? Yeah he would have beaten out every RB on the Miami Dolphins roster. Again, I'm the one being disingenuous? Please!

It seems like you're making every argument to give Daniel Thomas the benefit of the doubt (sprinkled with straight up inaccurate statements in his favor...) while nitpicking every little thing. The matter is simple - Daniel Thomas is nowhere near the best back in that draft.

 

I disagree about RT. IMO his ceiling is as high as any QB's in the league. I think he can easily become a top 10 QB. Obviously that's not a guarantee. He has to continue to develop and Ireland has to add a few weapons to make his job easier. But it's not really a stretch to see a player with that much talent and demonstrated work ethic developing. As for adding the weapons, I think that the signs point to Ireland and Philbin understanding that. And I think Philbin is likely to be be disposed and able to use those weapons. I see the focus on the last five years without the context of Parcells (philosophical changes) and HC and system changes as simplistic and leading to inaccurate conclusions.