Dolphins leaning toward Miller, as there starting RB for next season

Considering how often Gil Brandt and Mike Mayock said that Tannehill has a ceiling that rivals Aaron Rodgers yeah I'd go ahead and say his ceiling is pretty high.

He's not arm strength limited, he's intelligent, and he's athletic as you can hope for in a QB, realistically (let's be real, the Cam Newton and RG3s are just freaks of nature)

 

I think its obvious you didn't really understand the analogy.

FTR, I've stated numerous times now, that if we don't make the playoffs this coming season, Ireland should be fired.

 

IMO you have to look at both ceiling and their likelihood of reaching it. I would say that the ceiling on the two you've mentioned is huge and higher than RT's, but I also see some real questions with both Cam and RG3 that make me lower their odds of reaching their ceiling. With Cam, there have always been personality questions. He could very easily end up being one of those guys who always tease you with the great games, but never quite put it all together. With RG3, I always thought he took to many hits to to a lack of awareness. I don't mean he runs too much. It could be in the pocket or on the run. But even in college I noticed a tendency for him to take some nasty hits when he didn't get down fast enough or sense the rusher. If I were a Redskin fan I would be very worried that his whole career will be injury marred.

 

I have no problem with you disagreeing with me concerning the future of Tannehill. In fact I hope you are right and I am wrong about him being a future top ten QB in the NFL. I just see several QB's who are not yet 30 that I would take over him right now. Perhaps if he gets better talent around him on offense, he will develop into the QB you think he will. Time will tell.

I focus on the past five years because that is how long Ireland has been the GM of the organization. He certainly had a great deal of input in the players drafted and signed in free agency while Parcells was with the organization. Parcells hired him because he was suppose to be such a great talent evaluator. To assume that the Dolphins didn't draft players and sign players in free agency which Ireland recommended to Parcells, would make no sense at all.

Also, Parcells departed from the Dolphins during the 2010 season. Ireland had complete control over the draft and free agent signings the past two years. The Dolphins are 13-19 since Ireland took over total control of player selection.

Ross has decided to keep Ireland and therefore all I can do is hope that Ireland proves me wrong. Perhaps the Dolphins will be in the playoffs in 2013 and all you Ireland supporters can tell me how wrong I was about him. I would actually prefer that over watching this team go though another losing season. So hopefully after the 2013 season is over, you will be able to tell me I was wrong. Right now though, I can only go by what I have seen from Ireland over the past five years, which isn't much.

 

I fully understood you analogy. I merely pointed out that we still have the same chef mixing the ingredients and that is why I am hesitant to think the results will be any different.

Sorry but since I am not on here often, I wasn't aware you had stated Ireland should be fired if the team doesn't make the playoffs in 2013. We never agree on anything, but that is one thing we do agree on. I just hope they make the playoffs and you can tell me I was wrong about Ireland.

 

But Ireland didn't have final say over those five years. So for example, if Ireland preferred Matt Ryan (as was reported at the time) but also thought Jake Long was a very good prospect (as most everybody on the planet did) then Parcells listens to Ireland, takes his input and takes Long. Then five years later people show up and bash Ireland for not having taken Ryan. And then when you have new coaches, even if you drafted exactly what the previous coach wanted you have to replace those players with new players that fit the new philosophy/system. So if Ireland likes a TE prospect is more of a receiver but knows that Sparano/Henning prefers more of a blocking TE and probably wouldn't use or develop the receiving TE, he would be foolish to take the receiving TE. Now five years later people will get on here and say "Ireland won't draft a receiving TE, just look at his history" (This is a hypothetical of course). The point is that saying you know what Ireland would have done based on those five year ignores the fact that it may not necessarily be what he really would have done given final say and having had the current coach and system in place. That's why the focus is misplaced.

 

Oh absolutely I agree. I was merely adding my anecdote about Tannehill's ceiling. You're dead on about the likelihood of reaching that ceiling.

 

I believe so. Helu went in the 7th. Seems like Murray and Ridley in the early 3rd. Cannot recall where Hunter went.

 

Ireland was in charge of selection players in the 2011 draft. Henne was the starting QB at the time and had been benched in the last game of the 2010 season. Yet Ireland failed to draft Dalton or Kaepernick in the 2011 draft. So instead, Dalton and Kaepernick, who I think will have better careers than Tannehill, are now playing for playoff teams and the Dolphins continue to be a mediocre football team.

As far as blaming Sparano/Henning for the lack of a quality receiving TE on the roster. Ireland in the 2012 draft selected Egnew in the third round. He didn't make the active roster until the last few games of the regular season, and then only because of numerous injuries on the roster. Ireland also selected a useless Egnew, while passing on T.Y. Hilton at the WR position, who just happened to play for F.I.U., right here in Miami.

I guess when the Dolphins fail to have a winning record in 2013. The excuse for Ireland will be that he was forced to select players that Philbin wanted on the team.

As far as the first three years he was with the team. I assume you are taking the position that even though he was the teams GM, he really didn't have any say in the players selected or signed during the Parcell years. He therefore was merely a yes man for Parcells and he only did what he was told to do. If that was the case, it even makes me less willing to want him as the man in charge of selecting the players for this team.

 

And if they do it'll be in spite of Ireland, I imagine.

We can do this all day, man. It's silly. To act like a team's success is the result of one or two people is flat out silly.

 

FTR, if you think Ireland is the chef in my analogy, then no, you don't understand it.

Ireland buys the ingredients required by the recipe. That's all he does. The coach is the cook. We get the recipe from either Parcells or Philbin. Our struggles leading up this last year (not this year, where we clearly overachieved) are due to a bad cook and a bad recipe. If the guy buying the ingredients was wrong too, we'd have been a 1 win team.

Ireland did everything that was asked of him. He got the type of players Parcells recipe called for. I believe he should be fired, if we miss the playoffs this coming year, not because he didn't do exactly what he was supposed to with Parcells (he did), but because it would show he doesn't understand Philbin's recipe.

We are blasting a guy for having to follow a **** chili recipe foisted upon us by Parcells that was then cooked by a horrible cook in Sparano. The ingredients were fine, and many of which are starting on other teams.

We have a recipe that has won the blue ribbon in this generation. We have a 5-star chef who has also won in this generation. Now this coming year will see if Ireland knows what ingredients to get.

 

For wahtever reason I cant fist bump that post but consider it the biggest fist bump. Well said.

 

I don't know it's really fair to treat Parcells draft philosophy as problematic or overly antiquated. I don't know any aspect of it is outdated or in any sense repudiated, and for the most part is stuff that would be pretty uncontroversial

 

Winner!

They were afraid of losing Daniel Thomas.

 

Which is funny because I'm afraid of having Daniel Thomas.

 

During the first three years he had a say, but not final say. That was always obvious to just about everybody. He was given the title promotion as was required by the NFL rules when you poach a front office guy or coach. Brandt and a few others reported several times that Parcells had final say and exercised it on the first round pick and on select projects throughout the draft. We know who the first round picks were. We don't know who the projects were other than Pat White. Ireland also specifically stated that Parcells sometimes took players off Ireland's board. We don't know who those were. We also know that Ireland had to get permission from Parcells on trades as with the Marshall trade where Ireland said he had to promise to get another second round pick back for Parcells to allow the trade. We also know that Ireland had final say on all the street FAs like Wake and Bess. It's too simplistic and just wrong to claim that everything was either Ireland's fault or that it wasn't. Any reasonable analysis has to be more nuanced than that.

As for the TE comment, I specifically said it was a hypothetical. I meant that to apply to any position, any selection. I obviously knew that Egnew was a selection made during the Philbin era. I wasn't blaming Sparano for not using a receiving TE. It was an example of a type of player that would be chosen for one regime and not for another. I personally never cared for Egnew as a prospect and I said so before the season, but that's irrelevant here. The point was that you can't simplistically focus on five years and pretend that different coaches would have wanted the same types of players. And therefore it would be a stretch to claim that Ireland won't do something based on those five years. Yet people before the Egnew selection said things like "Ireland would never draft a receiving TE". They were clearly wrong b/c they were basing it on the previous years under Parcells' philosophy and on the picks Ireland made for Sparano a coach that wanted different types of players. It would be similarly foolish to continue to point to those five years and claim you know what players Ireland will and won't pick now.

 

Ireland should have drafted Andy Dalton??? No way I would take Dalton over Tannehill.

 

I would take RT over Dalton easily as well. I did love Kapernick coming out, but even I would have been loath to spend the first round pick on him. He needed a year to sit and was an example of a player that wouldn't have been wanted by the previous regime.

 

Andy Dalton. Can you imagine how well Tan would of done w AJ Green, or even just Jermaine Gresham?

 

Grisham isn't some unstoppable force.

Dalton is straight up being carried by AJ Green though. Watch any of their games and you'll see him bring down touchdowns that most other QBs would never get away with.

 

WR catching tds have a negative correlation with wins. So AJ Green must have prevented their perfect season.

 

No way is take Dalton. Even with AJ Green he's mediocre.

 

Dalton like RT shows potential but still has to prove himself. If Dalton were in Miami this board would be drooling all over his potential just like do over RT.

 

Aw man. Miller over a play-maker?