Ireland: Vernon is going to get much, much better

Then we need to pick up a player deserving of the torch-passing.

 

People seem to forget that Wake was tutored by JT and Joey Porter back in the day

 

Vernon looked to me like a guy who came out of college too early—and that's exactly what he is.

IMO, it's too early to feel much about him one way or another.

 

I'm curious as to what you thought of Cam Wakes pass rushing potential when he was 1 year removed from college.

 

That's not the teams internal assessment. They're going to develop everyone at a pass rushing position as a pass rusher, regardless if they're an UDFA from Bum**** Community College or not. They'd be stupid to move away from that with Vernon, or anyone else on the roster.

 

we dont know if OV is that player yet.

 

Should we understand that we are not getting a DE with the 1st pick?

 

I dunno. I hate the term but this could be pure smokescreen. A lot if the value at our pick will be at DE

 

-I love to hear this bit. I thought he showed some really good potential. He had limited opportunities, but his talent and potential were obvious to me. I have high hopes for this kid. Good stuff.

-I hope they find a way to resign Reggie.

 

Lol @ you posting about how guys on here know more than the team. I'm proud to say I am definitely NOT one of those people. But I do know that Misi is the WLB and Burnett the Sam.

 

damn it why are we keeping a slug of a runningback in Daniel Thomas but refuse to work with Bush ?

 

Don't be surprised to see Josh Kaddu get a look to be a third down pass rusher from the end position.

 

i think we can all agree that Vernon is not 'special' right now ... and unfortunately, now is when we need a special talent at RE ...

Neither are Odrick (miscast as a DE in this system) or Shelby ...

We MUST get that player now .... in 2-3 years, maybe Vernon 'might' be capable of replacing Wake ... but again, what does that do for us right now.

We also don't have any LBs that can fill any 'special ability' on the R side either .... Misi isn't it -- Vernon isn't there either, right now today.

I can't say wether Vernon will 'ever' be a special player ... but it isn't going to happen in the next 6 months.

So we can either sign a dude like Johnson or Avril, or draft a guy like Jordan (Ansah, Mingo, Montgomery) after trading down in RD1. Personally, i would prefer both.

This is the same route we should take with WR .... sign Bowe (Jennings), then drafting a WR with our 1st RD2 pick .... which after trading down in RD1, would still give us a minimum of 4 more picks in RDs 2+3 for TE (Ertz, Kelce) + CB (Rhodes, Trufant, Amerson, Poyer) + OL + ILB ... maybe even '2' CBs - depending on how the coaching staff feels about its 'pool' of in house candidates.

 

He got a handful of snaps in the end of the Jacksonville game doing that. I don't think it was any more than 5-10, but he got in and rushed from there.

 

Yeah. The wind seems to be blowing that way. Ireland and Philbin mentioned him. Or maybe it was just Philbin.

Kaddu needed to put on weight and get much stronger IMO. Maybe he has, but the amount of improvement I thought he'd need in that department to become a very effective rush end would have to involve some gray market supplements.

 

Um. No. Unless I'm not watching very well. Misi takes on the double team of TE and Tackle on run downs. Comes off the field on passing downs.

I think Vernon would do well there. Plus he is good in zone coverage pass drops, from what he's shown so far.

 

The more I look at the DEs likely to be available around 12, and the DEs likely to be available in round two, the more I expect the Dolphina to take a second round DE.

There is no perfect fit for what we need, and with low enough risk factor, for an Ireland pick at 12th overall at DE unless a guy like Werner falls... Or Damontre falls and Jeff makes the mistake of taking him because he feels the Sherman connection gives him an information advantage that makes it a safer pick.

I'm sincerely worried about Jeff feeling 'more comfortable' with Damontre because he thinks he has some evaluation advantage. He's been that way in the past, and not just with Tannehill and Fuller.

 

Kaddu is extremely raw, but he's also extremely athletic. I tell you, if you watch some of Dion Jordan's footage from 2011, it's hard not to notice the times that Kaddu is on the other side of him. Kaddu probably has a better first step than Jordan.

 

Kaddu at DE interests me more than Kaddu at LB.

 

Hmm, such an interesting topic GM, sometimes you know exactly how to make me express what I'm thinking about, I call it athletic transition, I'm not sure if its what your getting at here but for me projecting what pure athleticism can do relative to the positions requirements is not always easy but the challenge is fun, the theory is if you have a foundation of athleticism, that player should be able to get his body into different positions if taught how, athleticism can mimick to a degree, kind of like in basketball, all the great offensive players can play D..Of course Wake is a freak of nature, truly, but this kid has a frame that's very mature, beast like, it'll be interesting to watch him closely in camp this year to see if someone who is athletic, who is very strong, great genetics, can learn to become a better pass rusher.

I didn't see much to have any conviction, but I'm gonna just have some hope for him because of those things he does possess.

dude got hurt on the 2nd day of camp last year, there must of been 6 people around him, stayed down for a long time, dude got pissed off because he was limping, then adamantly got back into the defensive huddle pushing staff out if his way to do so..

 

not sure how to interpret that.
So I'll go with option B, that you're so fond of him at LB the notion of moving to DE has you ready to break down a Universal Draft Video.

 

I think there's plenty of room to get tripped up in the characterization. Misi mostly lines up on the weak-side but plays more like a traditional strong-side linebacker, and the reverse with Burnett.

Cameron Wake being a left side only guy screws up the Dolphins fronts in the base package a little bit. It puts Misi weakside off the line of scrimmage/uncovered by the tight end and Odrick in wider alignment vs. left tackles then is "ideal". The team plays a lot of Over shifts when I think it is designed to be more of an Under team.

 

I like this guy. Vernon, that is.

 

He's in your backfield. Blocking your field goals our points.

 

If we could get a #1 and more from someone for Wake, would you make that trade? I think I might as long as we received some pressure from the position.

I like this idea.

 

This.

I still wonder if Kevin Coyle tries to include more varied looks next season. It's something he started doing late in the year, in particular when they moved Vernon around a bit. I guess that depends on certain personnel moves and how they draft, but that's my "fearless forecast" bet for the defense this year.

 

I think you should take another look. KB is the Sam and Misi the Will. Teams often go 2 TE or use shifts/motion to disguise or change the strength of the formation, perhaps that's what you saw.

I agree with you on Vernon. I think he has a lot of versatility to his game. He played DE and LB, he was used in the 3-3-5 nickel ahead of Misi so the coaches obviously like his coverage ability. He was a beast on special teams. And with some development I think he has a shot to be a hybrid DE-LB, not an elite pass rusher, but a guy who can line up in multiple spots and do a lot of different jobs. Not bad for a 3rd rounder.

 

I think if you can get that for a guy Cameron Wake's age, you take it and run with it regardless. I don't think you'd get it though, and I don't know that Wake being a left side guy is too inconvenient to the point where you consider trading him.

I don't think there is a huge need to change it, it's basically like you said. If they've got someone available, have at it.

 

Agreed. I figure it starts with Randy Starks and whether or not they bring him back. Personally, I hope he's re-signed. But, hard to tell anything until they start making moves. Guess we'll find out starting in a month.

 

I wouldn't trade Wake for a first, unless maybe a top 3 pick. He just turned 31, but has relatively low mileage on him and has been healthy. And the top pass rushers have been productive well into their mid-30s. From age 31-35, here is how many sacks some of the elite pass rushers have averaged per season:

Bruce Smith -- 11.6
Lawrence Taylor -- 11.1
Chris Doleman -- 11
Kevin Green -- 12.1
Jason Taylor -- 9.4
Jon Abraham -- 9.5
Michael Strahan -- 9.6

Obviously, there's no assurance that Wake does the same, but I think he has 4-5 more very good years in him. There's no guarantee that 1st round pick is even here more than 5 years even if he is very good and there's a pretty good chance he wouldn't be.

 

For the price Miami has Wake at, I wouldn't trade him unless it is two 1sts and the first first being a top 10 pick.

 

I'm with you. The price tag Miami has on Cam Wake is pretty ridiculous relative to his overall talent. I have to be pretty sure I'm getting Jadaveon Clowney in order to decide to give up Cam Wake.

 

I'm witchu. Plus I have a moral issue with unloading the team's most talented player, hardest worker, a high character player who cares greatly about the good of the team and enjoys taking the youngens under his wing. Even if we ended up with the #5 overall pick from Wake, how much would it cost in a bidding war to trade up to #1 or #2 for Clowney? Granted, Barr would make a nice consolation prize, so that's a tough one. How awesome would it be to sit at #1 next year with a couple elite QB prospects on the board, trade back to #3 for an extra first and then some, and still be able to draft Clowney.

 

Agreed. x1000. Even the hypothetical for comparative reasons is flat out disgusting.

 

This is random, but does anyone have a gif of the Olivier Vernon sack dance against the Jets at home? (Not the Gangam style one)

 

And just to add to this, he's got mass amounts of quick twitch, so his lost step will come later than the norm, and the scientific approach to his body will offset that lost step..He's the Lebron James of def ends.

 

I just read here in another thread, that Vernon is going to be working out with Cam. That's real good.

 

Well CK you certainly were right and way ahead of all the prognosticators on Colin Kaepernick, I'll give you THAT.