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Barry Jackson Sports Buzz draft notes

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by jim1, Feb 16, 2013.

  1. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That'd be awesome, but I doubt it happens. I still believe that signing Jennings, drafting Patterson and Goodwin would be better than re-signing Hartline and drafting Keenan Allen. That's just me, but I think the former offers more speed and more athletic ability. I'm a Mike Wallace fan more than most, but not for the money he's trying to command.

    The thing with Patterson though, is I don't think he's going to check off many of the boxes on Jeff Ireland's list. If Ryan Tannehill is as outside the box as his thinking goes when staying true to his philosophies and true to his board...well, I'm not getting my hopes up that much for Cordarrelle Patterson if he's already signed Mike Wallace. If he's signed Greg Jennings or re-signed Brian Hartline, I think Patterson is more realistic.
     
  2. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    But Im under the assumption that those who are willing to take Patterson at 12 are realizing that were gonna get 1 of the big three free agents..so what's the difference, is everyone thinking were gonna let Hart walk?
     
  3. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If we sign Jennings and resign Hart, I don't condone going receiver at 12..I would go best receiver available in the 2nd round..
     
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  4. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I won't speak for everyone else, but if Miami signs one of the three between Bowe, Jennings, or Wallace AND re-signs Brian Hartline, I highly doubt that Miami would spend a 1st round pick on Cordarrelle Patterson or Keenan Allen. Sure, they could, but I'd be betting heavily against it, especially if it's Mike Wallace. With Dwayne Bowe in contract talks with KC already, that makes the demand for Wallace that much greater. Would Jeff Ireland really put that much capital into the receiver position? I doubt it.

    Right now, I think my goal would be to bring in Jennings, let Hartline walk, and target Patterson at 12 or DeAndre Hopkins, Quinton Patton, or Stedman Bailey in round 2.
     
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  5. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Agree with you on the first part..... and I think you make a fair point with the 2nd as well. I think we also need to consider how much Tannehill's success or lack there of means to Ireland and his future, which is significantly more so than any pick he's ever made, so perhaps he's in a mental mode of wanting to fill the cupboard full of offensive weapons to help make his QB look as good as possible, especially considering RT will likely forever be measured against Luck, RG3, and Wilson. Plus there's that competition within the competition where I'm sure as sure can be that Ireland deep down wants his guy to look like the best of the bunch, and if that means drafting Patterson 1st after having already signed a big FA name, then perhaps he'll take that extra measure. If Ireland wants it bad enough there's no reason he couldn't utterly swarm his offense with talent this offseason.
     
  6. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    Personally, I wouldn't let Hartline prevent me from drafting Patterson, I know that for sure.
     
  7. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I agree, don't think we'll go receiver at 12 if we sign both... Forgot what we were debating lol
     
  8. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Agreed. I'd also agree if you let Hartline walk and sign, say Greg Jennings. That wouldn't prevent me from drafting Patterson either.
     
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  9. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It'd be nice if Jeff were more transparent, but we know that's not happening. However, not only does he have to give weapons to Tannehill. He's got to protect him, so at some point he's going to address the OL, whether that's re-signing Long or drafting someone else. Probably a G spot as well. He's also got to fill a starting DT spot, a starting CB spot, and a starting S spot on defense as well. Miami could still use help at a pass-rusher position and some LB depth. He's probably going to need another CB in there somewhere.

    And then, he's still potentially losing Reggie Bush, so RB could be addressed unless he's got unwarranted confidence in Daniel Thomas and Jonas Gray. He's going to have to address TE somehow as well.

    That's a lot of holes. I'm just glad he knows, and has said as much, that this is a huge offseason for him. However, if he planned all of this in terms of resources at his disposal, it's more than a little disconcerting that so many starters contracts are up at the same time without much viable depth. Obviously some are going to be re-signed, but even then how many quality depth players does Miami have? What positions are that strong that he can afford to let someone walk without addressing it further?

    That's my trepidation about this offseason. Jeff knows he's got to get a lot of hits this year, and even though he's got a lot of resources, he's got to use them pretty strategically to make everything fit. And that's why I don't think he's going to bend over backwards just to help the receiving corps. It's certainly priority number 1, but he's got to be smart about it. That's where I worry.
     
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  10. PerfectTeam

    PerfectTeam Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Personally I'm in the camp of sign Jennings and draft Patterson. I'd like to pair him with Corey Fuller. Fuller has that size/speed combination that could see him develop into a good #2/#3 option down the road. He is still raw so he could amount to nothing but he has got me intrigued. I also like Chris Harper a lot. Add a nice physical presence to this WR group. I'm also kind of intrigued about giving Kevin Ogletree a look.
     
  11. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    I don't think being a pure speed burner is as important as a WR with high YPC and high YAC.

    Now, those may be present in the same guy, or they may not be, but the latter two are what we need most in one reciever.
     
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  12. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Shula did something like that in 1993, and even though we got a good WR in the draft, I did not agree with it at the time or later. As you may recall, he traded for Irving Fryar and signed Mark Ingram to replace Clayton and Duper. Then he drafted OJ McDuffie. At the time, I was hoping he'd draft Dana Stubblefield or Michael Strahan.
    Of course, Ireland isn't Shula. Just that we maybe facing the same situation on draft day.
     
  13. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    I agree. IMO, for this offense, you have to be a well rounded wide receiver first. If you have great speed, then that is a bonus.

    Greg Jennings was a 4.42 guy coming out of Western Michigan. However, he wasn't considered to be a down the field threat at Western Michigan. This is Tony Pauline's write up on Greg Jennings prior to the 2006 NFL draft:

    James Jones was a 4.54 to 4.58 guy with around a 35-36 inch vertical at 6'0", 206 lbs. Here is Tony Pauline's write up on him:

    Jordy Nelson was a 4.51 guy with a 31 inch vertical. Here is Tony's write up on him prior to the 2008 draft:

    Randall Cobb was a 4.46 guy coming out of Kentucky:

    Note that I'm not trying to make a case against a receiver that is a deep threat. My only point with this is to show that being able to make plays down the field is clearly something that is a secondary characteristic that the Green Bay scouting staff looks for when scouting wide receivers for their offense, which is now Miami's offense.

    The first example of this may have been seen last year in the third round, where it was reported after the St. Louis game that Joe Philbin said they were looking at Chris Givens in the third round but chose not to draft him. Instead, the reports have it that Joe wanted to take Michael Egnew instead. I definitely believe a stronger case can be made for Joe's desire to get a "joker" tight end than a limited vertical threat receiver, and I say limited because a guy like Mike Wallace only runs vertical routes and would be a bad fit for a lot of the horizontal stuff that is run in this offense.

    The receiver Miami did draft that stuck with the team ran a 4.44 at his private pro day and a 4.62 at the combine. Rishard is probably somewhere in between and likely around the same speed as James Jones. Here is Tony's write up on Rishard:

    Armon Binns is another guy on the roster that the coaching staff really likes. He was a 4.50 guy at the combine coming out of Cincinnati.

    I'm not trying to make a case that Matthews and Binns are the future of the wide receiver position in Miami, but I think the coaching staff likes them enough that they will get a chance to compete in camp for the 4th and 5th wide receiver spots on the team.

    What I am saying is that if you look at the general profile for the receivers that Joe Philbin has been associated with in the past, then I think you can make a fairly accurate list of receivers that Miami will likely show interest in in this draft:

    1. Cordarrelle Patterson/Tennessee -- He's got great speed, but most of his work comes in the 1-19 yard range. High average per target, great RAC ability.
    2. Keenan Allen/California -- Average speed, great quickness, above average RAC ability. Tough and can bring the ball down in a crowd.
    3. Quinton Patton/Louisiana Tech -- Quick off the line and in/out of his breaks. Creates separation with his quickness and route running.
    4. Ryan Swope/Texas A&M -- Quick receiver that is faster than given credit for being. Great hands and route runner. Creates separation.
    5. Chris Harper/Kansas State
     
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  14. alen1

    alen1 New Member

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    Getting open vertically is not all about speed. Never has been. All the names you listed above have become quality route-runners and have quick feet, which are the two most important traits in working vertically.
     
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  15. Finsanity247

    Finsanity247 New Member

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    When you hold the 12th pick in the draft you need to select someone that is going to drastically improve your team. I am very high on Keenan Allen and currently have him as the 2nd receiver in the draft but he is not a good fit for the Dolphins at 12. The Dolphins need speed and while I am a major advocate for the Dolphins to attempt to sign Mike Wallace it is far from a lock and even if they do Allen still doesn't make sense. In reality the Dolphins are likely to extend Brian Hartline and will probably come away with Mike Wallace or Greg Jennings. If the Dolphins were to spend $15-19 million on the receiver position in free agency how likely are they to using the 12th pick on the same position? They would be wise to spend that pick on another position where impact is needed and please do not forget that the 2013 NFL draft is absolutely loaded with receiver talent in the round 2-4 range where the Dolphins hold an additional five draft selections. Players the Dolphins should consider at 12 that could make a difference are...

    Tyler Eifert, Dee Milliner, Kenny Vaccaro, Sheldon Richardson, Dion Jordan, Barkevious Mingo, Jarvis Jones, Lane Johnson.
     
  16. Finsanity247

    Finsanity247 New Member

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    I suspect the Dolphins will still look to add a receiver or two in the draft and think players such as Markus Wheaton, Stedman Bailey, Ace Sanders, Aaron Dobson, Ryan Swope, Tavarres King, Marquess Wilson, Conner Vernon, and Chris Harper make a lot of sense in rounds 2-4.
     
  17. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    IMO Jennings, Nelson, Jones, and Cobb all play fast, which I think is more indicative than 40 times.
     
  18. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Keenan Allen has quicks.
     
  19. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I would say that as we stand today, Lane Johnson, Eric Fisher, Chance Warmack, Jon Cooper, Cordarrelle Patterson, Sheldon Richardson, Xavier Rhodes and Johnthan Banks are the likeliest picks at 12.
     
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  20. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    .... and Ziggy Ansah :p
     
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  21. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    And Dion Jordan.
     
  22. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    ... and Ziggy Ansah :p
     
  23. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Lol..fu&$ it, lets just draft Cooper and Lacy so we'll both be happy and run mothers out of the stadium.
     
  24. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic The Miami Dolphins select

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    What do you think our likelihood of trading down is?
     
  25. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    In each case, what free agents leaving and being signed makes that player the most likely pick?

    I think...

    Lane Johnson - Jake Long leave and we do not sign a FA tackle

    Eric Fisher - Same

    Chance Warmack - We sign Randy Starks, Jake Long, Jennings, and Sean Smith
    Jon Cooper - Same

    Cordarrelle Patterson - We do not sign Jennings, Bowe or Wallace (not trade for a starting WR)

    Sheldon Richardson - Starks leaves

    Xavier Rhodes - Sean Smith leaves, but we sign Starks, Jennings and Long.

    Johnthan Banks - same
     
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  26. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Depends on who is available at 12. I do know that GMs say draft day trades have been pre-orchestrated most of the time. They go over possible scenarios and target-players.

    One trade down I can see is if we let Fasano go, then if there is a player Dallas likes at 12, we may drop back to 18 and take a TE with either that pick or the extra pick we got by trading down. Ireland could use two seconds to move into the late first for Eifert for instance.
     
  27. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    ....Ziggy Ansah - opt for BPA :p
     
  28. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I actually think signing Jennings, Bowe or Wallace increases the chance of drafting Cordarrelle Peterson
     
  29. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    How do you figure, B?
     
  30. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    why should signing a Jennings or Wallace deter you from taking the best WR in the draft? our WR situation is pretty dire, we need to bring in multiple guys. I think pairing Patterson with one of the aforementioned vet WRs is a great idea, Jags did it with Laurent Robinson and Blackmon and they used the 7th overall pick. the fact that Arizona is paying Fitzgerald a gazillion bucks didn't stop them from using the 13th pick on Floyd. and Atlanta gave up a boatload of picks to move up like 20 spots to draft Julio when they already had an excellent receiver in Roddy White, and not to mention a great TE in Gonzalez.
     
  31. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Because Corarrelle is such a boom or bust type of player. Even if he is a boom type of a player I do not think that the Dolphins would count on him to do anything his first season.

    If Miami doesn't sign a veteran receiver, then they would want a receiver in the draft that is more ready outside of the box. However if they sign Jennings and resign Hartline, then Patterson would be a much safer pick. If he is a bust then the hit isn't that bad. If he is a boom then you have can either cut Hartline or move him to a 3rd WR role, depending on his contract and what they want to do.
     
  32. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    I was thinking that signing one of those stud receivers might mean we're in a certain type of mindset, so if that's the case I could see it carrying over into the draft with Patterson <similar to Atlanta taking Julio Jones despite having Roddy>. Why stop at one great receiver when two are better and harder to defend against, right. Not to mention, in Patterson, we could be getting a receiver worth $10.0M/year by his 3rd year for only $10 million for 4 years. Then when Jennings is set to retire or Bowe/Wallace hit FA we'll re-sign Patterson for the big contract and then draft another stud again to keep the cycle going. Just a thought.
     
  33. BuckeyeKing

    BuckeyeKing Wolves DYNASTY!!!!

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    Why not his combo of size and speed is staggering. Team would just need to find ways getting him the ball. I think running some bubble screens and end arounds would solve that.
     
  34. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I haven't seen anything in Philbin and Ireland that tells me that they are going to rely on a wide receiver that they have to coddle to get production out of.

    Which is why I am saying that if Miami does sign Wallace, drafting Patterson is less of a risk and therefore increases the chance of Miami drafting him.
     

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