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Long: Whether I stay with Dolphins 'on them'

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Perfectville_USA, Feb 19, 2013.

  1. oakelmpine

    oakelmpine New Member

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    I wish this could be pinned and every Ireland supporter is forced to read this once an hour, so it gets drilled into them. Ireland was DEFINITELY in on taking Henne and Long over Ryan and (mystery tackle). I'd much rather had been the Falcons than the Dolphins over the last 5 years and it isn't even close.
     
  2. oakelmpine

    oakelmpine New Member

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    Well this is the problem a LOT OF US have had for years now with Ireland. He is WAAAAAAAAY overrated as a talent evaluator. His draft picks I think speak for themselves.
     
  3. oakelmpine

    oakelmpine New Member

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    But yet people here will defend Ireland with their last drop of blood. I don't get it.
     
  4. oakelmpine

    oakelmpine New Member

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    It's because the Ireland supporters just will never give up on the idea that while Parcells was here he was the almighty dictator and Ireland did nothing but get his coffee and donuts for the 3 years. Jeff did ZERO for 3 years in their eyes.
     
    Joe Robbie likes this.
  5. oakelmpine

    oakelmpine New Member

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    Not if he is going to be greedy and unsignable after 5 years. What did that Pro Bowl tackle actually get us ? What playoff wins did we have while he was here ? I'd have rather had the wins and the POSSIBILITY of winning playoff games than the last 4 years of 7-9, 7-9, 6-10 and 7-9.
     
  6. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

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    The truth is it's up to Long only and not the Phins. I'd say bye-bye unless we keep him to under 8 mil per year.
     
  7. DrAstroZoom

    DrAstroZoom Canary in a Coal Mine Luxury Box

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    My head is spinning.

    Anyway, had Jake stayed healthy, his value as a #1 overall would be unquestioned. And there was nothing in his pre-draft profile which suggested injury risk. That said, it's time to move on.
     
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  8. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Playmakers! Stock the fridge with playmakers, then get going on with lineman (offensive).

    I consider playmakers to be on both sides of the ball. Edge pass rusher, LB, ballhawking safeties, CBs, and of course the offensive positions.

    Go up and down our offensive skill positions and look at our drafts, and it's terrible. Pat White? Patrick Turner? Parmele? Lex Hilliard? Daniel Thomas? We have to get to Lamar Miller before I see a guy that excites me.

    We hit on Brian Hartline. Ok. One complimentary WR. In 5 drafts. Kidding me?

    Giants and Steelers have 4 superbowls with turnstyles at left tackle. I'm just saying. A good LT helps, but we've been spending picks and resources at the line for 5 years and it's still crap.
     
  9. DolfanTom

    DolfanTom Livin' and Dyin' w/ Ryan!

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    My question is, if he really wants around $9-10m, as has been thrown around, what team is actually going to pay that? I mean, we won't for sure, but we're not the only one w/ access to film are we? Other teams can surely see his play is going backwards, and he's also been injured the past couple years right? I mean, if Jake was on the Cardinals, say, and we needed a LT badly, would we be clamoring to sign him at $9-$10m/year? Heck no - we'd be saying we'd like him at the "right price," whatever that is.

    W/ all the OT lineman talent coming through the draft (six round one guys supposedly), and the value they will come at now, I'm very skeptical that anyone is going to pay Jake even close to what he's reportedly asking for. Heck, I don't see a team offering more than $6-7m a year, but I guess we'll see. I think it's obvious Jake will hit FA w/ out a deal signed with us, but I wouldn't rule out him going out there, getting some offers that underwhelm his expectations, and then realizing he can get the same thing or close here.

    Just a hunch, but we may not have seen the last of Jake Long just yet. Then again, if a team out there pays him $9-10m/year, then so be it. We can watch from a far as said team and its fans regret it by mid-year.
     
    Mr772 likes this.
  10. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I can agree, the overall value just is not there.

    That is water under the bridge at this point, 7 million, MAYBE 8 million, is Long's market, if he wants to go else where then he should probably go.
     
    Joe Robbie likes this.
  11. fin13

    fin13 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I know people are not going to like this but before you pay 10 to 13 million for a left tackle draft one with the 12th pick and sign Wallace and Jenkings.
     
  12. marshallfin1

    marshallfin1 New Member

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    dont like his diva attitude. Let um go, he is not worth it.
     
  13. Mr772

    Mr772 New Member

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    I already know how this plays out. Signed by another team for 10mil/yr gets cut in one or two seasons. He hasn't been anything special lately and is obviously in decline.
     
  14. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    Obviously this was meant as a joke. Long was the best LT in the NFL for three years. Because of injuries, he just isn't the same player he was earlier in his career. In hindsight, the Dolphins should have taken Matt Ryan with the first pick in the 2008 draft, but Long certainly wasn't a bad draft pick. Much less the worst draft pick in Dolphin history.

    I don't see him returning next year, because I just think he wants far more money than the Dolphins want to pay him. I also don't see the Dolphins placing the franchise tag on Long. It would not surprise me in the least if the Dolphins select another offensive lineman in the first round of this years draft.
     
  15. Rhody Phins Fan

    Rhody Phins Fan Well-Known Member

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    He's not a diva. He just wants to get as much money as he can, which is what every free agent does.
     
  16. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't really understand the slightest bit how the people who believe that non-skill position players don't matter really have anything that supports their views. It's pretty easy to accept that you shouldn't neglect skill players, but at a certain point the fact that it's really difficult to observe any actual NFL professionals mirroring the idea that skill position players matter so much more than linemen and the like should send up alarms.
     
  17. CANDolphan

    CANDolphan Well-Known Member

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    Just one? Nope, all of them taken together in context. You seem to be pretty damn good at the hindsight draft, but I notice when you're forced to put your opinion and expertise on the line, you back down immediately.

    The mere fact that you think non-skill position players have no real impact on an NFL team's success tell me you should probably look at the Oakland Raiders. They are loaded to the gills with playmaker skill position picks and yet they're worse than Miami. If you sincerely don't understand the importance of blocking, both in the run game and passing game, then there's really no hope in having a discussion with you.

    Why is it the loudest ones are always the least knowledgeable?
     
  18. Joe Robbie

    Joe Robbie The Patriarch

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    Everyone on the team "matters." Even the kicker/punter. Skill positions have more value because they're harder to fill. This shouldn't be rocket science. Again, no one is saying they don't matter.
     
  19. Joe Robbie

    Joe Robbie The Patriarch

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    And can you point to me where I said they don't matter at all? I also never claimed to be an expert on the draft, but I think the team's record should tell you a bit about how "good" they are at drafting, shouldn't it?
     
  20. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I agree. Draft only smart linemen in round 1.
     
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  21. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    How do you reach this conclusion???
     
  22. Joe Robbie

    Joe Robbie The Patriarch

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    By not having my head up my ***. What other teams value lineman over skill positions?
     
  23. Perfectville_USA

    Perfectville_USA Mr Perfect

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    I copied and pasted from the Rotoworld, I added nothing but my comment at the end. Do a quick search on Rotoworld and you will see I changed nothing.
     
  24. unifiedtheory

    unifiedtheory Sub Pending Luxury Box

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    I see your 4 time Pro Bowl, 2 time All Pro left tackle and match you an Eric Kummerow, Jamar Fletcher, Bill Milner, Eddie Moore, Jackie Shipp....etc, etc, etc.
     
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  25. Joe Robbie

    Joe Robbie The Patriarch

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    Were any of those guys an offensive lineman drafted #1 overall? Again, he's a very good player, but drafting him in that spot was beyond stupid.
     
  26. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't see how they are harder to fill. The draft is pretty scattershot regardless of your position.
     
  27. How about Ronnie Brown
     
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  28. The G Man

    The G Man Git 'r doooonnne!!!

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    I love big Jake. I have supported him from the day we drafted him (over Ryan no less). But, if he is holding out for big guaranteed money, then I hope the FO let's him walk. Sorry Jake, but you've got to prove that you can stay healthy and play at an elite level for elite money.
     
  29. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Lots of them. Look no further than this season's SB champions, who have drafted one WR in the first three-rounds since 2008.
     
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  30. marshallfin1

    marshallfin1 New Member

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    sounds like he doesnt wanna be here to be honest.
     
  31. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Yup. Could have taken Aaron Rodgers, and then the Ryan rather than Long debate would be moot.
     
  32. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    The 49ers have three 1st round OL currently too. They also have 2 WR and a TE whom they took in the 1st, so that's pretty equal.
     
  33. Eop05

    Eop05 Junior Member Club Member

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    It's worth noting that at the time we took Jake Long our QB depth chart looked like this:

    John Beck
    Josh McCown
     
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  34. Eop05

    Eop05 Junior Member Club Member

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    The reason I say that is not to totally support Joe Robbie's opinion. But it does support the idea that it was a very questionable pick.

    Most successful teams value OL, and will not hesitate to draft them early in the first couple rounds. But, when you're saying "look at the Pittsburgh Steeler, NO Saints, SF 49ers, Baltimore Ravens! They drafted OL early" They were completely different situations. Those teams can afford to do that when they have NFL caliber players at WR and especially QB.

    Miami was well prepared to go into 2008 with Josh McCown or John Beck as the starting QB. I repeat: Josh McCown or John Beck. Just wrap your head around that for a second. Favre coming out of retirement was out of left field creating the domino effect that led us to get lucky and get Pennington. Chad Henne was no lock to stick around to pick #60. So again, Parcells and Ireland were fully ok with going into week 1 of 2008 with Josh McCown or John Beck as the starting QBs for the team. That's about as bad a QB depth chart as they come historically in the NFL.

    So in context, the Jake Long pick was very poor no matter how well Jake Long played. Considering the QB they passed on is playing at a consistent high level, continuing to progress every year, and they had about as big a need at that position as any team I can remember.
     
  35. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Who was the Ravens QB and WRs when they drafted Ben Grubbs???
     
  36. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If you're judging a draft based on whether or not teams selected the absolute best player available to them, you're not going to have a tremendous amount of successful picks and pretty much no team is going to come close to succeeding more often than it fails.
     
  37. Eop05

    Eop05 Junior Member Club Member

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    Thanks for this.

    Kyle Boller maybe. And how did the Ravens fare until they drafted a good QB?
     
  38. Eop05

    Eop05 Junior Member Club Member

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    It's a pretty simple point: When you are in absolute Dire(as dire as any QB situations I've seen) need at the QB position where there is a QB worthy of taking staring you in the face. You don't pass on it.

    We did. This situation in 2008 that we faced is isolated from the other judgement situations you're talking about.
     
  39. unifiedtheory

    unifiedtheory Sub Pending Luxury Box

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    You called Jake Long "the worst draft pick in franchise history", I was just pointing out the massive amount of hyperbole you were using. There is absolutely nothing wrong with drafting offensive lineman in the first round. I place a pretty big importance on the offensive line. Without a good one you can not do a damn thing.
     
    MrClean likes this.
  40. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Rick Norton. All American QB, taken 2nd overall in the AFL draft, total and complete bust. There was no common draft yet in 1966, and Norton went 25th overall in the NFL draft. This was an example of poor player evaluation by the Dolphins to take him that high.
     

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