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Reggie Bush reportedly has interest from Detroit Lions

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by xphinfanx, Feb 26, 2013.

  1. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    They also famously did think Barry Sanders was a good running back, never rely to heavily on the Stat Monkeys, they cannot see the forest for the trees at times.
     
  2. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    Exactly. This is not an either/or situation. Big plays and consistency are not mutually exclusive. You can have both.

    For those of you that want to eschew consistency and think you can have an offense in the NFL based around big plays only, then you might as well campaign to fire Joe Philbin as he is going to try to achieve both in Miami.
     
  3. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yes the same one.

    After 5 years you named the one offensive playmaker he's acquired. And he's about to let him go.

    What are the numerous ways Ireland has acquired offensive playmaking talent for our team. Go ahead and start naming them.

    I'll start with his attempts, and this is just off the top of my head.

    Jalen Parmele. Lex Hilliard. Pat White. Patrick Turner. Ernest Wilford. Chad Ocho. Anthony Armstrong. Jabar Gaffney.

    Brandon Marshall. Reggie Bush. The two guys who actually perform decently. Not elite guys. But they've done ok.

    Hartline is purdy good. Lamar Miller I'm very very excited about and do think he'll be better than Bush in this offense. But he's a question mark and the guy behind him is not a question mark. He's just not very good.
     
  4. brandon27

    brandon27 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    No surprise the Lions would be interested. They desperately need a running game.

    I'd like us to bring Bush back... as long as its not in the #1 back role. Lets hope Miller earns that this year. Miller would be the every down kind of back with some help from DT, and I'd put Bush in more so for passing situations, screens, send him out wide, etc. etc. Something we didn't do enough of this year IMO. He's a threat, especially in the open field, so if we were to bring him back, that's where Id like to see him used, not running between the tackles. While he proved to be somewhat effective there, his talents would be better utlized elsewhere.

    I'm sure that's a reason the Lions are looking at him too. Stafford can get that ball quick to Reggie out in space, and look out. Not sure why we never did much of that with Reggie this year. For that reason alone, if that was the intent with Reggie, I'd bring him back to Miami based on that alone, but not to be the every down running back again. Too inconsistent.
     
  5. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Mike sherman said the reason they didn't do that was because it was too much on the plate for Tannehill to begin with. They slowly peeled layers off the offense as the year went by.
    q
    Not sure why hitting your RB as he leaks out of the backfield is too complicated for our smart QB but hey, I'm not an OC.
     
  6. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Because the QB is responsible for telling the RB whether he needs to leak out or stay in and block.
     
  7. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    I would say Pouncey makes a lot of plays out there. I'm sure Reggie Bush would agree as well.
     
  8. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

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    Are you seriously arguing that Barry Sanders was not a good running back? I can only assume you are being sarcastic but . . .
     
  9. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Nope, FO's own measures suggest he was not a great running back, if one digs around their site they address it.
     
  10. WhiteIbanez

    WhiteIbanez Megamediocremaniacal

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    Who knows how consistent Miller can be without Bush in front of him doing all the heavy lifting?
    I would keep a proven player who leads with hard work and big play ability over a guy with a little speed who can't protect the QB.
     
  11. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Your right about Miller, he's unproven, and I'm not one who wants to rol strictly with him next year, that's why I'm drafting a back like Lacy if available with 2a..there are some good backs available in this draft, Franklin, Ball, Taylor.

    But I've seen things from Bush that don't outweigh the work ethic and occasional big play to give him the money and role he desires..I can't ignore what I saw Nez?..we desperately need a 1 cut downhill presence on this team, he is no where near that.
     
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  12. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That doesn't mean you re-sign Bush.

    Also, Bush can't pass protect worth a **** and it's not something he's going to learn to do at this point.
     
  13. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    pass protection by a back is 90 % nasty demeanor..his running style shows me that doesn't happen to often, and it reflects is in pass protection..

    Anyone wanna watch two kids who can protect the passer with a nasty demeanor, watch Jon Franklin and step Taylor...that's how you get it done.

    Bush obviously has the athleticism to put his body into position from a technique stand point, for some reason he chooses not to.
     
  14. MonstBlitz

    MonstBlitz Nobody's Fart Catcher

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    I'm a huge Reggie Bush fan, but it's a plug-n-play position. I certainly won't hold it against Ireland if he doesn't overpay to retain him.
     
  15. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    No, I referenced the one player you mentioned was the one play maker we had. If I am being held to a standard where I need to go and find this and that for the last 5 years, then that same standard should also apply to yourself when you post that Reggie is our only one.

    Or is there something I'm missing with regards to that?
     
  16. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

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    It sounds like Bush won't be re-signed so it probably doesn't really matter, but that is pretty misleading. First, while Football Outsiders had Reggie ranked 30th in one particular metric, Miller was not appreciably better in that metric than Bush despite the very small sample size. Second, that 30 ranking in that one metric included several guys above Reggie who had much lower usage. Second, Reggie's Success Rate, which FO explains reflects a RB's consistency, was 51%, which ranked him 10th best among backs with 100+ carries. Third, a very large portion of Reggie's negative yardage runs came in the 3 game (or so) stretch after his injury when he clearly wasn't himself and was hesitant. According to STATS Inc. Reggie was stuffed 30 times last year. Looking at the play-by-play from those 3 games (Ariz., Cincy and StL), Reggie was stuffed 17 times in those 3 games, which indicated he was stuffed only 13 times in the other games combined. He also averaged a pretty good 4.8 ypc in those other games.

    A series of runs like (4, 5, 7, 4) yards isn't necessarily more valuable than (1, 20, -2, 3) yards. If those 4, 5, 7, 4 runs all came on 3rd and 8th they are worth very little. If the 1 and 3 yard runs in the 1, 20, -2, 3 sequence came on 3rd and 1, they are pretty valuable. Down and distance make a difference and although the FO metrics you cited take that into account, they do not suggest that Reggie is a bad back. They suggest that he is above average and ahead of some other pretty good backs, like Chris Johnson and Trent Richardson. I like Miller and would like to see him used more, but the fact he wasn't used more this past season concerns me. Not because I don't think he can handle it, but because he may end up being a guy that they just don't really trust and therefore underuse even when Reggie is gone. If that is the case, it means Daniel Thomas becomes the guy. I'd keep Reggie is he can be kept at a reasonable price.
     
  17. jazz

    jazz Active Member

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    hmm, weird. i actually saw it the opposite way. i felt bush was so hell-bent on proving he could run inside that he forced runs that he should've bounced to the outside.
     
  18. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    How does the consistent runs affect the next play Fineas?, how does the negative plays affect the next play?
     
  19. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    If Bush leaves we need to draft one of those two RBs.
     
  20. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Ok I'll play.

    Reggie Bush.

    That's it. I'm done.

    ;)


    I said Ireland is allergic to playmakers. He is.

    I never said he was batting 0 for 200. He's had a few singles, a couple doubles. ONE HOMERUN (Wake). On the offensive side it's pathetic. If this was Ireland's first year I'd say he did pretty well. It's his 5th.
     
  21. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

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    That depends on the run and the play. But as I noted, a disproportionate number of his negative runs, i.e,. more than half, came in just 3 games after he was injured against some pretty good penetrating DLs.
     
  22. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    No, here is Ireland in a nutshell:

    -poor track record of drafting playmakers
    -poor track record of signing playmakers (Wake is arguable, but should go into Ireland's column)
    -pretty good track record of TRADING for playmakers

    But after he trades for them he does not want to then pay them, imo, his risk aversion is just that high.
     
  23. Rhody Phins Fan

    Rhody Phins Fan Well-Known Member

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    Thats a good point. I'd forgotten about the injury. I think that would skew the numbers.

    That's not really fair though. I was talking about all things being equal. You basically put the first set up of data in situations to diminish their value, and the second set of data in situations where they would be more valuable.

    The FO metrics do in fact suggest that he isn't very good. They have him ranked 30th in DVOA, which is how they rate overall effectiveness. He was in the negatives, which means he was below average.
     
  24. Rhody Phins Fan

    Rhody Phins Fan Well-Known Member

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    This simply isn't true. in 96' and 97' (the only years I can access in their database) they had him ranked #1 in the NFL.

    http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/09/02/the-football-laws-from-football-outsiders/

    FO says that boom or bust runningbacks are usually overrated but they also agree that Barry Sanders is the best boom or bust runner in history, which makes him plenty valuable.
     
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  25. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

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    If he was, he wouldn't be able to find one, or two. He'd be incapable, and as you said, he's not batting 0 for 200.
     
  26. xphinfanx

    xphinfanx Stay strong my friends.

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    Yes Detroit has some cap issues coming up. Megatron Calvin Johnson, who was scheduled to make $18.5 million in salary this year ($14 million base salary and $4.5 million second day of the league year roster bonus), became the highest paid non-quarterback in NFL history by signing a seven-year, $113.45 million contract extension with the Detroit Lions.
     
  27. WhiteIbanez

    WhiteIbanez Megamediocremaniacal

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    This post bothers me a bit. We all knew a young QB would find some struggles in this WC offense.
    Get in third and long and all. I don't have a problem with a guy sticking around with that kind of play making ability honestly.
    Spending an early pick in the draft to compensate Miller or Thomas is a mistake.
     
  28. xphinfanx

    xphinfanx Stay strong my friends.

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    I agree we shouldn't need to draft another running back this year with the need for playmakers at WR, TE, OL ,if Long is gone not to mention Defensive holes. RB should have been stacked good enough to not need and waste another draft spot so quick.
     
  29. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    First off, there are varying degrees of allergies. Not everyone dies by taking a whiff of peanut oil.

    Second off all, this semantic exercise is an example of how far someone has to go defend Ireland's ability to find playmakers.
     
  30. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    But yet you've stated that you don't think that miller should be counted on, so if Bush is gone, what do you want to do?

    For me certain players change dynamics of an offense, Eddie lacy is that player, if you can get him at 2a, combine him with miller, then your run game is shored up..

    A lot of folks want to sign a free agent wide receiver and draft two, for me, sure, I'd like Wallace, but if I get him or a Jennings, I'd rather spend a resource in a back then the addition of a third receiver.
     

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