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Brian Hartline - FULL Touchdown Accounting

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by ckparrothead, Mar 1, 2013.

  1. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    Of all the WRs in this year's draft, I've been most impressed by Bailey's consistency at doing the latter of this, and when he needs to, picking up good YAC.
     
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  2. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I doubt if even the great Green Bay receivers are all equally adept at both the slot and outside. Sure, you'd like each to have that capability, but by and large you will use them in the spots where they are best. Hence, Cobb and Jennings saw more slot snaps while Jones and Nelson saw more outside snaps, pct wise. That is my perception as for where the greatest pct of their snaps came. I'm too busy to research it at the moment.
     
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  3. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Did you fly one of them planes like in your avatar and sig pic back in the Big War? P47 I'm guessing? :)
     
  4. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Anywhere except for the end zone.
     
  5. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Ha!
     
  6. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Couldnt resist ;)
     
  7. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Hey, it was a great post. Don't blame you.
     
  8. miamiron

    miamiron There's always next year

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    OK Brian
     
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  9. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Throwing the deep ball is about being comfortable in your mind in terms of what kind of speed your mind is functioning at, if your tempo for the game is not where it needs to be then no way are you gonna have the patience required to set up your fundamentals and mechanics to deliver such a pass, when you feel rushed you can't get a proper feel of depth for your receiver, your pretty much throwing to a spot, I would suspect that once the game slows for him, he will be able to throw the deep ball better because his trajectory and spin is fine.
     
  10. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    VERY nice breakdown, my man!
     
  11. mroz

    mroz Fix the OL Club Member

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    You are being generous… I think he is 10 inches off by my estimation
     
  12. TooGoodForDez

    TooGoodForDez Deion Sanders for GM

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    Hennehill
     
  13. Steve-Mo

    Steve-Mo 'Saban' Guy

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    lol epic troll xD

    Anyway, thanks for taking the time to make this thread, CK. Great info as always.
     
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  14. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Something like that, just..a little bit more high or low/right or left.

    I've heard a Qb makes a jump from yr #1 to yr #2, hopefully that is one of the things that improves.

    He's not "inaccurate", not at all, he is just slightly off.
     
  15. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member


    [​IMG]
     
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  16. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It's like LBsfinest got into industrial solvents and re-registered.
     
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  17. Perfectville_USA

    Perfectville_USA Mr Perfect

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    What some of you people do not know is this, Brian Hartline got's a medical note from his docter saying: He is allergic to the end zone. This is a serious medical condition. His agent and his Mother says it's ok for him not to score touchdowns, so if they can live with? Why can't you? Also a doctor is Sweden said you can get PTSD from scoring touchdowns, so give Brian a break. [thanks in advance]
     
  18. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. What many people call inaccuracy is usually just timing between the QB and the WR. QBs have to learn where WRs like to catch passes and WRs learn to expect passes in certain areas and make adjustments to make those catches easier. Given enough time together a QB and WR learn to sync up. That's why I see value in keeping a player RT has shown a connection with.

    And that troll post about trajectory just shows the posters ignorance. Not all WRs like the high pass. Many like the quicker, lower pass b/c it gives the CB less time to react. Generally (although not always) you'll find that taller or high jumping WRs like the high pass. We really didn't have an abundance of those so it would have been silly for RT to throw passes as if he were throwing to a Calvin Johnson. Really our best endzone threat last year was Fasano. He couldn't get separation but you could drill it into his bread basket as he shielded the defender. We didn't have anybody who was great at the high pass. I would love to see us add Bailey b/c even though he isn't a big WR he has that knack for catching the contested high pass. I see a lot Mark Clayton (Dolphins) in him and a little of that Steve Smith (Car) attitude when the ball is in the air. I also think that Matthews could potentially develop into a endzone threat. He shows a good natural instinct for shielding with his body.
     
  19. Aquafin

    Aquafin New Member

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    good point CK ,

    i dont really hate Bess and Hartline its just that I dont enjoy watching them as I did with guys like Welker ,Chambers , Gadsden and OJ McDuffie .

    Wellker was from my home state and he gets so much respect here its hard watching put up great numbers for our rivials.
     
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  20. Aquafin

    Aquafin New Member

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    :sidelol:
     
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  21. Phinfanjt

    Phinfanjt New Member

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    Ba dum tss! Woow whoo too funny
     
  22. Aquafin

    Aquafin New Member

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    SORRY MR CLEAN I wish I could fly because I reaaly love those vintage warbirds . as for the war i wasnt even born then as a matter of fact my Uncle was killed in the Marshall islands on a esscort carrier in 1943 and my dad was still in his teens then.

    i loveto fly but i dont have the physical tools to do so. IE EYESIGHT , arthritis . but if I could I would have loved to fly either planes .

    i always wanted to paint a thunderbolt aqua and gray witha orange trim around the cowling and put the number 13 on the bow of the ship.
     
  23. Aquafin

    Aquafin New Member

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    SORRY MR CLEAN I wish I could fly because I reaaly love those vintage warbirds . as for the war i wasnt even born then as a matter of fact my Uncle was killed in the Marshall islands on a esscort carrier in 1943 and my dad was still in his teens then.

    i love to fly but i dont have the physical tools to do so. IE EYESIGHT , arthritis . but if I could I would have loved to fly either planes .

    i always wanted to paint a thunderbolt aqua and gray with a orange trim around the cowling and put the number 13 on the bow of the ship.
     
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  24. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Look at those plays, then imagine if RT was throwing to this guy.













    [video]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=t_RFniPfxiA[/video]
     
  25. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't really understand the idea that Brian Hartline and Davone Bess don't belong on the same roster. They don't do the same things. They don't run the same routes. They probably shouldn't both be 100% snap guys, but the idea you're failing to meet some sort of standards of athleticism for a roster if both are there really falls flat. Who exactly are you trying to imitate, and for what reason?
     
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  26. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    only thing I would add to that is unpredictable play from our bookend tackles added to that pressure to release before he could get comfortable..Martin was untrustworthy..

    The thing I see in common with the greats is that awareness and patience while the play is developing.
     
  27. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    I think a lot depends on what you do to address the two, possibly three main things this team is needing in a receiver right now, which are the ability to use your body to shield the defender (endzone target), the ability to break away and run away from the defender, and likely the ability to make plays in space. With all of that, IMO, you have to be a precise route runner to make it work the way it needs to, but that's another argument.
     
  28. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    The thing about Brian Hartline is that while he isn't a big play threat or a big time endzone threat, he is a very consistent receiver that works the side lines as well as any receiver in football right now. He has consistently posted 14+ yards per reception averages, and has consistently been around 8.3-8.4 yards per target in his career. He's definitely mediocre after the catch and will not run away from the defense when he has a chance to make a play down the field. He's limited in what he can do, but he's consistent.

    Exactly how is that different from a guy who is nothing more than a vertical receiver? Most of you want Miami to pay Mike Wallace $10+ million per season to be a limited vertical threat, but you aren't willing to pay Brian Hartline $5-6 million per season to be a limited possession guy. This is similar to the Reggie Bush argument in the other thread. Big plays are being valued over consistency, when they should have equal value. If you have a player that can offer you big plays plus consistency, then you have a guy who is probably worth a $10+ million contract. Greg Jennings brings that ability when he is healthy. A guy like Jordy Nelson has that ability. All the legitimate top receivers in the game have that ability. Neither Mike Wallace nor Brian Hartline have that ability.
     
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  29. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Wallace puts 6's on the board, and isn't as limited as you want to believe.
     
  30. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    It's pretty much a working assumption that they're going to try and come out of the off-season with a starting wide receiver and tight end, and those two things will be specifically addressed by those two players.

    It's fairly unrealistic that you end up with the number of competent, field-worthy "play makers"that are going to make it difficult to properly utilize Hartline and Bess in one off-season. The thing you're trying to mold the Dolphins offense(Which is the best team in the league in this regard) sure as **** didn't do this over one off-season, were able to properly manage four wide receivers plus a tight end in significant roles, and don't appear to be able to field the kind of roster fans here are aiming for long term.
     
  31. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The people who have said that Wallace is route-limited have fulfilled a burden of proof that the people suggesting he isn't haven't even come close to. KB21, alen1, etc. have all put together well-reasoned arguments and given examples, and the best I've seen contrary is probably best described as what you're suggesting...A desire to believe. That coupled with the idea that Wallace ran more routes this year without adequate proof that it wasn't part and parcel to his mediocre year this year.

    I'm not sure I agree completely with the idea that Wallace is an awful idea, but the people opposing it have made a much stronger case to the contrary.
     
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  32. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    I agree, and I don't believe Miami will try to completely remake the wide receiver position in one offseason. My suspicions are that they will utilize the draft and take one in the first couple of rounds and then may take a developmental guy later. I don't think they will spend big money on a receiver in free agency, partly because paying big money to a receiver is counterproductive to Philbin's stated philosophy that there is no number one receiver in his offense.
     
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  33. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    I think that the basic thought process boils down to the notion of accountability, and I agree with it. Neither Bess nor Hartline is particularly dangerous or a concern for opposing defenses- they're just receivers and defenses don;t have to particularly account for them and game plan for them imo- they pose no imminent threat. That doesn't mean that they don't have their good points- bess is quick, dependable, good hands. Hartline has good size. pretty good speed, hands, good down the sideline. But neither is a legitimate threat- have one non threat WR out there and you can work around it- have two and you probably have negative synergy, and imo we do.

    You have to have mismatches, go to guys, weapons, playmakers on your team. Bess and Hartline on the field at the same time lets Safeties creep into the box and they don't really demand more than 1 on 1 coverage. The bottom line is that having Hartline and Bess in the field at the same time is to slow, too pedestrian and just not threatening enough to opposing defenses.
     
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  34. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    I've said before I will stand by the front offices opinion on if his skillset can be worth his price tag.

    As far as the "one trick pony" talk, it's overplayed IMO. Yes, Wallace is a burner...but he also can break tackles, make people miss, beat press coverage and to my surprise can adjust to the football as well as anyone.

    Another factor is what he does for his teammates by taking the top off of defenses that allows his #2 #3 WRs to get open underneath. The attention he merits doesn't show up in a stat line, what it can do is make his teammate look like a 48M dollar WR.

    Wallace gives you an 11 on 10 matchup, that good QBs and coaches can exploit.

    Also total package WRs don't grow on trees, and I'll take the guy who can find the end zone over most others.
     
  35. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Brian Hartline and Davone Bess playing frequently, or being on the field at the same time doesn't do that. You've got a bunch of other guys playing. You don't need five guys who fit whatever the nebulous and arbitrary definition of "play makers" that floats around out here actually is.

    And like I said, what exactly are the standards you are holding the Dolphins up against here? In practice, I don't see how what is being floated reconciles with basically anything that is being practiced as a whole by successful teams.
     
  36. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I LOL'd at the bold. So stealing that. so much funnier than *rimshot
     
  37. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He led the team in TDs with 8. Steelers in at least one game traveled an average 4 yards in the air ... for the whole game. 30 passes. Yes he had a down year. Because Haley absolutely refused to use his speed.

    If we bring him in here and run dink and dunk then yes, absolutely it's the worst idea ever.

    If we bring him in here and Philbin says everyone will play every position. But not you Mike. Hulk, go smash.

    His first three years he was a one trick pony and Nobody could stop him. How do we know that's not what Philbin wants?
     
  38. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That's not really true at all. He was thrown the ball deep more this year than any year during his career, it's just he caught a lesser percentage of them. It's not a dink and dunk offense, and Ben Roethlisberger is really a complete ****head and will say anything or throw anyone under the bus to make himself look better.
     
  39. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    How do we know he can't run the comeback route ala Julio Jones for example? He was rarely asked to do it and infact I don't recall that being a big part of Haley's ridiculous offense.

    He's 26 and hasn't had an offseason since 2010. Philbin could do wonders with Mike.
     
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  40. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    IMO it's all about the $$$. If he wants 10-12 million let him have it. Somewhere else.
     

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