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Justice league Movie

Discussion in 'TV, Music and Movies' started by Ohio Fanatic, Feb 1, 2011.

  1. Samphin

    Samphin Κακό σκυλί ψόφο δεν έχει

    You guys realize that Batman started as a comic book character...right? And in that realm, he quit being Batman for a number of years...right?

    Because anyone who says that Nolan ruined the Batman character doesn't realize that Nolan built his movies around the comics being the majority of his source material. So if you hate what Nolan did, then I suppose you aren't a fan of Batman. His vision is the closest to the original Batman concept ever.

    Yes, it is darker, yes it is grittier, but that's the vision of Nolan. The actual story lines were lifted from the comics.

    I also don't understand how someone can say he can't fight. The series goes through immense lengths to show his training and the techniques he learned. Those are then applied throughout the movies. Again, it sounds like someone wants to hate the movies for the sake of hating the movies.

    Either way, Batman shouldn't be the focus of the JL movie. But it is also hard to do an ensemble with that cast when Superman and Batman are leaps and bounds ahead of every other superhero in terms of popularity. The Marvel folks are all relatively around the same level. Batman/Superman are in a different stratosphere. Makes it hard to share the screen with small time guys like Flash and Wonder Woman, in my opinion.
     
  2. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Completely agree with this post.

    Nolan's Batman films were based on (off the top of my head) Batman Year 1, The Killing Joke, The Long Halloween, No Man's Land, Knight Fall and The Dark Knight Returns and I'm sure I'm missing a few others. TDKR was Nolan's Dark Knight Returns, only Bruce was 40ish in Nolan's film. I do think from what I've heard and read, the majority of people that disliked TDKR didn't fully understand what the movie was about or had a story/ending already in their heads going into the film and then it didn't match up with the actual final product they were disappointed. Again Nolan from day 1 of Batman Begins let it be known that his Batman universe was based on realism, as realistic a superhero movie could be, so the thinking that Bruce could physically go out each night and fight crime without crippling his body would be already unrealistic. Just look at pro wrestling, it's a "fake" sport yet the majority of them end up in awful physical shape.

    As far as JL movie, you're right too, neither Batman or Superman should be the main focus of the movie but WB (or any studio) are going to market the hell out of the Batman/Superman team up being on film for the 1st time ever because that's the draw and will get the mainstream audience to go see the movie by saying "hey we have the two most popular, well known superheros ever in the same movie, come and see it". You can't have a JL movie and only have Batman or Superman in cameos or reduced roles because again like you said they're just leaps and bounds ahead of everyone else people would go crazy if they got limited screen time. That's why I think it's important that WB puts out solo films for at least another character or two before the actual team up film takes place, not including at least a new rebooted Batman movie.
     
  3. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Apparently the old JL script written by Will Beall has been been tossed and now WB is bringing in new writers and going in a different direction. Just freakin' can the JL movie until they can establish other JL characters in stand alone films.
     
  4. Samphin

    Samphin Κακό σκυλί ψόφο δεν έχει

    I think you are right at this point. Seems to be a cluster.
     
  5. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Yeah it just seems like DC/WB just can't get their crap together, meanwhile Marvel already has plans past Avengers 3. It's just too bad WB and DC are just so awful at planning and putting out non-Batman movies. I really feel the worst thing that they can do is rush to get out a JL movie, just to say they did it, and then have it suck and flop. They should be hard at work making good Flash, Wonder Man and perhaps another Green Lantern movie first. Let people care about these characters first, then make the JL movie. Avengers wouldn't have been the hit it was if Marvel didn't build to it.
     
  6. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    BIG rumor reported by Latino Review (that has a pretty good track record) is reporting that the new JL movie script is being written by David Goyer (co-wrote TDK trilogy and Man of Steel), Zack Synder (director of Man of Steel) will direct it and not only will Christopher Nolan produce, becoming the "godfather of DC comics on film" but Christian Bale will return as Batman.

    Now IF true, I hate it. The Nolan films were grounded by reality and Nolan stated numerous times that Batman was the only superhero in his Batman world (he didn't even use the Zorro character as the play/movie Bruce went to when he was a little kid) and he didn't want to have any cross overs from his franchise with other CD characters, Nolan was one of the big reasons why the original JL movie in 2008 was nixed. It would totally go against everything Nolan stated and stood for earlier.

    The only awesome thing would be that Bale would be back as Batman, Goyer would be writing and Nolan would be producing. Other than that just not a big fan of this rumor. Anyway time will tell if it's true of not....

    EDIT: You know what if Nolan is game for it, I guess I am too. Yes I'm a Nolan fan boy.
     
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  7. DevilFin13

    DevilFin13 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm a Nolan fan boy too. But I'm very conflicted about this. I love the **** out of Rises and the whole Dark Knight trilogy. I have a hard time seeing how you make a JL movie with Bale's Batman without ****ing with Rises and the trilogy. On the other hand, I love the **** out of that trilogy. And it's hard for me to not be excited about seeing more Batman.
     
  8. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Yeah I woke up today feeling more conflicted about this. If Bale's Batman returns it kind of ruins TDKR's ending, plus would it really be wise to bring back Bale instead of a completely new Bruce Wayne/Batman who will actually have solo films? I mean having Bale back would be great and all but then what? Have JL2 with Bale while there's another Batman series going on? Wait until the JL film series is done before having a new Batman series? The whole thing is a bit confusing.

    The more I think about it, the more I just want the Nolan Batman series to be left alone.
     
  9. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Wasn't the part about Bale more speculation based on Bale saying he'd play Batman again if Nolan approached him with the right script?
     
  10. DrAstroZoom

    DrAstroZoom Canary in a Coal Mine Luxury Box

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    Not much of a loss, as far as I'm concerned.
     
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  11. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Good question, the original report really isn't clear. In fact now the rumor is it might not be a JL movie but simply a Batman/Superman team up movie. Either way I would have to think that WB/DC has spoken to both Nolan and Bale to make sure everyone is on board as I'm sure the it would be a package deal and Bale wouldn't do it without Nolan and Nolan wouldn't do it without Bale.

    Either way we need confirmation at this point as to what exactly is happening. Hopefully soon.
     
  12. Firesole

    Firesole Season Ticket Holder

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    I really don't want to see Nolan's Batman as part of the JL. Batman is supposed to be the great detective, the leader of the JL, and I just don't see that meshing at all with Nolan's Dark Knight trilogy.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  13. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

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    I personally wouldn't want Bale in the JLA movie either.
     
  14. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    To be honest, a Batman/Superman team up would be better than a JL movie. Regardless if Bale is attached or not.

    Avengers was awesome and everything I wanted (in the middle of the movie, I told my wife this was porn for me) but it was only possible because of #1 Marvel's approach from Iron Man on. #2 Joss Whedon.

    I fear, a JL movie would be shooting for Avengers' results without Avengers' build up. Superman/Batman would work without all that. And I'll always believe, live action or not, Bruce Timm should be brought in as a producer or consultant.
     
  15. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    I've stated numerous times I have almost zero interest in a JL movie or any movie where Batman is teaming up with other heroes. I just don't think Batman fits in with those universes or people with superpowers. Batman's biggest appeal is that he is human with no superpowers (unless you want to count having billions of dollars a superpower). I just think Batman works better solo.

    Of course hearing Nolan/Bale are involved it definitely peaked my interest a bit however, ultimately I just don't want to see it. I'd rather the Nolan/Bale franchise end with TDKR. I'm sure the only way Nolan would come back is if he thinks it makes sense storyline wise (and getting a ton of million in the process). Now from a business stand point it its a great move by WB/DC but that's an entirely different story.

    But yes I agree if WB/DC does want to do a JL movie, the best way would be to start out with solo films ala the Marvel way, however having an established Bale Batman and Superman leading the team and then branching off to solo films isn't a bad strategy as having Nolan/Bale on board brings instant crediblity to the project.
     
  16. Firesole

    Firesole Season Ticket Holder

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    I personally think Batman is definitely needed for a JL movie. Batman is pretty much the glue that holds together the JL.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  17. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Yes I agree, you can't make a JL movie without Batman.
     
  18. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

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    A JL movie could work with Bale as Batman if they kept him as more of an advisor to the other heroes. Less action. That way it wouldn't hurt TDK trilogy.
     
  19. Jt0323

    Jt0323 Fins Up! Luxury Box

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    i am a huge Nolan fan too, Momento is my favorite movie, but I liked that Bales batman was realistic. But I trust nolan too. I wonder if JGL would be in the move too.
     
  20. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Yeah if he's in that role it would make sense. Of course the death of John Blake or Blake getting too injured to fight could be another way to bring him back. Of course everyone in Gotham thinks Bruce Wayne is dead so that's another matter. There are actually a lot of possiblities to bring him back but with that a lot of loose ends need to be tied too.

    Well John Blake will need to be addressed, whether he's in the movie or not even its a throwaway line of his whereabouts. I would guess that his character will play a big role as to why Bruce is back though.
     
  21. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    It is not that he "can't fight." It is that for the most part, the fight scenes were not shot very well or choreographed very well either.

    Plus your point is a little hyperbole. Nolan did use the source material as a starting point. His version of Batman was enjoyable. However saying, "IF you don't like Nolan's version, you don't like Batman" is silly. Especially since the original concept was 60 years ago, and chances are most people here haven't read it. In fact, Joker was just a murderer who was supposed to die in the first issue. I also disagree as the original concept of Batman was more of a detective, and Nolan's Batman was not much of a detective.

    Also about quitting, depends on which comic you read. However in none of them did he quit with his first battle with the Joker and because a girl that he liked that was going to marry someone else dies.
     
  22. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    I would love to see a Batman/Superman team up.

    To be honest, I think I could have enjoyed Avengers even if I didn't see the movies leading up to them.

    To make a good JL movie, they would need to hire good writers, be willing to have the studio do as little meddling as possible, hire a good director who can give each character their moment.

    I think JL also should go the Avengers route in making the movie fun. That would be my biggest worry about a Nolan like JL. He would make the movie as not fun as TDKR. I still don't buy that Nolan's version is "grounded in reality." All three movies were highly unrealistic, especially the first and third movie.

    I also think they should skip the origin of the JL. I am sick of origins. I wouldn't mind if the story centered around a new member of the JL, like Cyborg or Green Arrow or even Martian Manhunter. Kind of like they did with Wolverine in X-Men.

    On a side note, I was thinking and I came to the conclusion that a Booster Gold movie could be a lot of fun.
     
  23. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Nolan's Batman wasn't much of a detective? In Batman Begins he goes undercover taking photos of the corrupt cops, lawyers, judges and gives them to Rachel, also going to Scarecrow's lair in the Narrows, questioning Flass. In TDK he is able to trace the prints off of the bullet in the wall, used sonar to locate The Joker, figure out which cops had family in the hospitals. In TDKR he is able to ID Selina Kyle when she stole the pearls and figured out she was trying to steal his prints. I say Nolan's series showed Batman was a detective. Certainly it didn't spend a lot of time doing it due to so much going on in each movie but it did show him at least doing things and gets the point across that he is one in each movie.

    Once again, Batman did not quit because Rachel died. He quit because he wasn't needed as Batman anymore due to the Dent Act cleaning up the city. Nolan, the writers and director, has stated that was the reason numerous times in numerous interviews. One of his main storylines/points of TDKR was exploring what would happen to Bruce if he plan of cleaning up Gotham worked.

    Rewatch TDKR, specifically the scene with Gordon in the hospital and Bruce goes to visit him, Bruce says to Gordon "The Batman wasn't needed anymore, we won":

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wda01iqJbm8

    Also here's another clip of the Mayor on Dent Day talking about how the police were able to put away the mob due to the Dent Act:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HB5llGaSCXI

    It's stated numerous times in the beginning of the movie Gotham is peaceful, so what would be the purpose of Batman being around? To stop shop lifters? John Blake even jokes to Gordon on the roof top that with all the crime gone from the city the only thing left for them is to go after people with overdue library books.

    Again Nolan's version of Batman was never meant to last forever like in the comics, Bruce says so in BB and TDK. He wanted to clean up the city, inspire people and that's it. In TDK is he prepared to quit and let Dent take over as the city's savior, as the "face" of the city which is why Batman takes the blame for Dent's crimes anyway.
     
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  24. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Then they didn't do an effective job of it. It seemed like he quit because of Rachel because said he did. In his conversation with Alfred about quitting being Bruce Wayne.

    I know Nolan's version of Batman wasn't supposed to last forever. I don't agree with his decision to create a ***** Batman who is always wanting to quit.

    I just don't think Nolan's Batman is as effective as people make him out to be. He hit a home run with TDK, hit a double with Batman Begins and hit a single with TDKR.

    EDIT: Thinking about it, I think TDKR would have been more effective if he threw himself in his Bruce Wayne persona and became a huge philanthropist. All the while missing the fact that Batman isn't needed anymore. I think this would have both made him getting back in the game because of Catwoman more interesting and his fall more interesting. At least to me because then he would have been out of shape because of his hubris instead of the fact he was a whiny little ***** because his girlfriend died.

    EDIT AGAIN: I should give TDK a bottom of the 9th grand slam because that is one of my favorite movies of all time.
     
  25. DevilFin13

    DevilFin13 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Let's say Bruce did quit mainly because of Rachel (though I agree it was mainly because Batman wasn't needed, he did keep being Batman in TDK after she was killed). What would be so bad about that? Rachel is a huge reason why he became Batman. Remember when Joe Chill gets killed. Bruce was going to kill him before Falcone got to him first. He wanted revenge, which he tells to Rachel. She explains to him that revenge isn't justice and that while it sucks he lost his parents, what they fought for was being undone by Falcone and the lack of good people trying to do anything about it. This is what prompts Bruce to leave Gotham, which leads him to Ra's and then to becoming Batman.

    Without Rachel there to remind him about what his parents stood for there's no telling what Bruce would have become. She brought him back from the brink of being someone who would murder a person in public and go to jail for the rest of his life simply for revenge. And aside from her relationship with Bruce, she is arguably the most brave and morally incorruptible person in the trilogy. She's an assistant DA in Gotham, which is a pretty high risk job. She slaps a guy with a gun (Bruce in that scene I mention above) and punches The Joker. She's pretty badass. I would be pretty upset if she was blown up by my mortal enemy.
     
  26. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Which, imo, makes it actually more sad that to honor her memory he quits.

    One thing to remember, not only did he quit being Batman, he quit being Bruce Wayne. He could do a lot of good as Bruce Wayne. Alfred says as much when he goes on to start whining about his dead girl he had a crush on. Which kind of annoys me even more because she was a childhood friend and a crush. It wasn't like they were married for years and she supported him through thick and thin.
     
  27. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Regardless of whether or not you were happy with Nolan's decision to make/create a "***** Batman" he clearly states in all 3 movies that Batman was never meant to be around forever and that his main goal was to clear up the city. Again you have to remember that Nolan's version was to be as realistic as possible and having Bruce be Batman for years on end wouldn't be possible (which is why we were given the hospital scene with the doctor in TDKR to show all of Bruce's injuries even though he was only Batman for a little over 1 year). So while people might have an issue with that, at least Nolan remained consistent with this.

    Hey I agree TDKR wasn't a perfect film by any means, there are parts I wish were different or would have changed if I was able to. I do think it is a very misunderstood film though and a lot of the backlash to it isn't fair or really justified. But to each his own though right?

    Regarding Rachel though you have to understand he felt that was his shot at happiness, he really felt that. She even says to him in TDK not to make her his one shot at being happy. Again though if you look at it through Bruce's eyes he lost both his parents, then the girl he thought he would be with forever and live his life. Remember Rachel was his friend until he went away from college and was there for him after his parents died, they have a strong bond and connection. He spend the last 9 years training to be Batman, to give him a purpose in life and then over the course of two nights both are taken away from him. He literally could have anything in the world due to his power and money yet has nothing. Bruce, the person, clearly isn't a sane or mentally healthy person. He's not a "normal" individual. So it makes sense that once he meets Selina Kyle, and becomes interested in her, he starts to get his life back, he gets out of the house and goes to the party etc. And why after sleeping with Talia and being with her for 1 night he feels so connected to her and wants to save her at the end. Which makes the last shot of him with Selina and happy that much more powerful as he finally has something to look forward and he can get over being Batman and a Wayne.

    And he did try to do good as Bruce Wayne though after he quit being Batman. The whole energy project was him trying to give back to Gotham as Bruce, once he became aware that it could be turned into a nuke he shut the project down and that's when he holed himself up inside of Wayne Manor. I believe it was Talia that called him out on it at her costume party. When he brings the data from the lap table from Bane's guy to Alfred, Alfred says give it to the police, Bruce says they don't have the fire power to deal with it, Alfred says but you do and Bruce says I tried to do it as Bruce and failed.

    Again another common mistake people make/assume is that once Bruce quit being Batman he just stayed inside his house for the last 7 years. It was only around 3 years or so that he did that. It's never openly stated as such in the movie but strongly hinted it by multiple people.
     
  28. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Newest rumor is that if Bale is back at Batman, he might not be the same Batman in TDKT, instead he would be a "new" Batman. Confused yet?

    I think that would just be a bad idea and confuse the hell out of the mainstream viewers. It's simple just cast a brand new Batman and reboot the franchise. Just let the Nolan films stand alone and leave them alone.
     
  29. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Ok so now word is the JL movie is going to be pushed back for "awhile" and WB will be doing a Man of Steel sequel in its place. The reason why is because WB is having a hard time signing both Nolan and Bale. Nolan doesn't want anything to mess with his movies and Bale won't be on board unless Nolan is. So yeah there you have it. I'm kind of glad and hope Nolan and Bale just walk away.

    Hopefully this simply leads to WB to put out solo films of JL members first and establish a new Batman with a reboot of the franchise first. I understand why they tried to land Nolan/Bale but now it's time to move on and hopefully hire someone that will continue to do the Batman character justice (no pun intended) and give the fans another awesome series of movies.
     
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  30. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    agreed. let the Bale/Nolan franchise stand on its own and start over with a new Batman. Just don't screw up and bring in another non-serious Bruce Wayne - ala - Michael Keaton.
     
  31. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    I didn't ever have an issue with Keaton as Bruce Wayne, as I thought he did a ood job with what he had to work with. Any problems with B89 or BR fall on Burton's direction and his focus on the villains being the center of the story.

    But you're right, it's time to let Nolan/Bale dreams go. They had an amazing run and made the studio (and superhero movies in general) tons of moeny. Nolan completely changed the superhero movie landscape but it's time to move on and look for "the next Nolan" aka a talented director/writer team they will be there, fully hands on from Day 1 of building the next Batman franchise to the very end of that 3rd or 4th film of that series.

    My one wish is that the 1st Batman movie of the rebooted franchise isn't an origin story. If they want to have very brief flashbacks to remind the viewer why he's Batman great but I just don't think origin stories are needed especially if one of the film franchises does a good job with it like Batman Begins did. Then it just becomes a waste of a movie in the series.
     
  32. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    I agree that Keaton did the most with what he was given, I actually like Keaton. but IMO, they never should have picked him in the first place.
     
  33. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    I was 5 when the movie came out so I'm not sure who the better choices would have been. I know at one time Mel Gibson, Alec Baldwin, Kevin Costner, Charlie Sheen, Pierce Brosnan, Tom Selleck, Harrison Ford and Bill Murray were either considered for the role or had turned it down. Not sure if any of them would have made the film better.
     
  34. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Nah. The problem wasn't Keaton. In fact, with any Batman movie, the problem is rarely ever the actor playing Batman...the problem is always the director and writing.
     
  35. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    I completely agree with this. I thought even George Clonney wasn't bad, he played the play boy Bruce Wayne very well and the stuff with Alfred was pretty good too. Like you said it was the director and writing that made that movie awful.
     
  36. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

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    I would like to see the JL movies stand on their own. Maybe do the JL movie first, see what characters people like, then make individual movies with them.

    And I agree with letting Bale/Nolan walk away.
     
  37. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Yeah people can't separate the abortion of writing and directing of that movie from Clooney's performance. Truth be told, few actors in Hollywood are better equipped to play Bruce Wayne and Batman than Clooney.
     
  38. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    It would never happen but if WB ever made a live action verison of The Dark Knight Returns I would love to see Clooney get the role.
     
  39. Ray Finkle

    Ray Finkle Member

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    Its official WB president confirmed that Nolan will NOT produce the JL movie.
     
  40. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

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    :yahoo: Let's get some new blood in here.
     

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