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Mike Wallace thread

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by BlameItOnTheHenne, Mar 6, 2013.

  1. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Who else has he been quoted negatively about? I can totally understand Big Ben's point of view. He had a OC who had been good enough to direct them to a Super Bowl win that fit his skills perfectly. I think Arians is the type of OC who adapts his offense to fit his player's strengths because Luck isn't the same as Ben, and he did well with both. Something odd must have been going on in Steel Town, because the end of the 2011 season, Arians contract was up, and he announced he was retiring from coaching. 1 month later, he is hired as the Colts OC. A one month retirement? Now he is taking on a more daunting task, head coach of Zona, a team with a hapless offense since Warner retired. Arians sure changed his mind significantly. I wonder why?
     
  2. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Todd Haley has never made anyone better.
     
  3. Justright

    Justright Banned

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    He may not run the full route tree as often as say Jennings does playing for Green Bay, but this doesn't mean he hasn't, can't or won't. He's played 4 yrs in the NFL and has played well enough to command that he should be one of the top paid WR's in the NFL. A lot of teams would/will do just that. This shows me that he not only plays very well now, but will most likely get better with experience.

    What changes are you thinking would need to be made? What changes do you think would be needed if a rookie WR was brought in? What if Bowe would have been brought in, would he have needed changes? I'd think only Jennings would be able to come in and need very little changes. However, Jennings age and injury problems worry me.
     
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  4. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    And I will say it again, the kid hasn't had an offseason in two years. That matters.
     
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  5. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Why is that?
     
  6. Ludacris

    Ludacris Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I don't trust the media...I think this is all a load of garbage!
     
  7. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    I've already provided ample evidence that proves he only runs 2-3 routes well at the most. I've shown still photos of him rounding sharp breaking routes such as the out pattern and dig pattern off. I've linked various articles, including one written by Alen that discusses the fact that he is likely never going to be able to run those routes because he has to gear down too much. He' snot a start and stop player. He's a build up speed player that has a lot of trouble changing direction.

    I've also posted an article where Wallace admitted that he didn't focus when the play wasn't involving him. Now how do you think he will play in an offense that is based on concepts where his route may be run simply to get the slot guy open?

    We should ignore all of that because of his speed though. Then we will see all the fans blame Tannehill and Sherman when an interception is thrown on an out pattern because it wasn't run at the proper depth and was rounded off.
     
  8. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    He's got a very long history of being an absolute dickbag even beyond him probably having raped someone, but he's also demanding accountability for Arians being fired, making **** up about injuries to make him look heroic, saying dumb and demonstrably wrong things about Todd Haley's offense, etc.

    Nothing should come out of Big Ben's mouth without loads of skepticism. He's an ******* and a raging ego.
     
  9. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    The accused rape was something we all know about. Everything else sounds anecdotal or hearsay to me.
     
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  10. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    Haley's offense was good enough for Kurt Warner, Larry Fitzgerald, Anquan Boldin, and Bryant Johnson out in Arizona.
     
  11. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Think about those names.

    Who do you really believe was a product of who.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
     
  12. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You've pretty much got to be waiting for Big Ben to hold up a notarized statement admitting he is an ******* next to Dan Rooney, Roger Goodell, and a religious community figure of your choosing on live TV at this point.
     
  13. bigbry

    bigbry Huge Member

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    Would you accept Sick quitting the forum instead?
     
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  14. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Nope. I'm ok now. No worries.
     
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  15. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    If Ben stood next to any religious figure to swear anything, that would be when I'd really begin to doubt him. :)
     
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  16. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Show me the picture you provided that shows a 26 year old WR can't get better.
     
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  17. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Because he didn't have a contract. If we sign him, then the reason he held out is no longer applicable.
     
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  18. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Ok, that's good info again, so considering we have nothing at running back, a good bargain at Qb, maybe what 5 mill in the whole tight end group, it allows us to drop some coin, draft some payers with upside at the same time, develop them so they can take over when their primed, and when the bigger contracts reach their heightened years of the cap..

    For example, sign Jennings or Wallace, draft Eifert, Woods and Swope, when their ready to start, cut ties with your Jennings or Wallace and Hartline.
     
  19. Ludacris

    Ludacris Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm just going to put this stat out there.

    Wallace vs Coyle's Secondary

    6 Games
    27 Catches
    398 Yards
    14.7 yards per catch
    3 TDs
    21 first downs
    8 Catches for over 20 yards
    1 Catch for over 40 yards.
     
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  20. Rhody Phins Fan

    Rhody Phins Fan Well-Known Member

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    Extrapolate to a full season and it is 72 catches for 1061 yards and 8 tds.
     
  21. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    Wait. I thought Mike Wallace was equivalent to Larry Fitzgerald and can play across all offensive styles?
     
  22. Justright

    Justright Banned

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    Really? He ran a 6.8 3 cone drill. The fastest ever recorded was 6.4. He is fully capable of "starting and stopping". He was used as a "speed" guy for the Steelers because that's what they needed. There is nothing that I've seen that shows he can't be an effective route runner. Again...4 seasons under his belt and 2 off season training programs. The guy has the potential.

    As for him admitting that he loses focus when the balls aren't being thrown at him...well, that's a sign of immaturity. That is something that can be easily fixed. I believe his admitting to it is the first step in fixing that problem.
     
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  23. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Brian Hartline 3-cone drill: 6.65
     
  24. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    Here is Mike Wallace running a ten yard out pattern:

    [​IMG]

    Wallace rounds off the route and runs it to a depth of about 12-13 yards instead of making a sharp cut towards the sidelines at 10 yards. In a timing oriented passing offense, the quarterback is going to throw that ball before he makes his break at 10 yards and throw it to where the receiver is supposed to be. This is an incomplete pass or perhaps an interception waiting to happen.

    [​IMG]

    Here is Mike Wallace running a 15 yard dig. While he actually runs this close to the right depth, he once again rounds off the route to the point that it is laughable. He doesn't sink his hips to make his cut and basically makes his cut from a straight up position.
     
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  25. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Mike Wallace vertical: 40"
    Brian Hartline vertical: 34.5"
     
  26. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Hartline 20 Yd Shuttle: 4.12 seconds
    Wallace 20 Yd Shuttle: 4.27 seconds

    I think its clear that one player is faster in a straight line, while the other is faster changing direction.
     
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  27. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    You can see it on film as well. Hartline can make sharp cuts and run those out breaking and in breaking routes that are a staple of the Dolphins offense. Mike Wallace can't. If it isn't in a straight line, he can't run it well.
     
  28. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    It's easier to change directions when you are not moving as fast.

    Wallace broad jump: 10'9"
    Hartline: 10"0"
     
  29. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    Hmm. Tavon Austin is fast, and he has no problem's changing directions. Percy Harvin is fast, and he has no problem changing directions. I'm curious as to why Mike Wallace's speed makes it hard for him to change direction, but neither of those two guys have problems changing directions and are just as fast as Mike Wallace?
     
  30. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    .... and here's Mike Wallace grabbing a one-handed TD. :tongue2:
    [​IMG]

    .... and here's Mike Wallace converting a short 3rd & 5 pass for a 51 yard TD
    [​IMG]

    ... and here's Wallace catching a 3rd & 16 for a 37 yard TD on Cromartie
    [​IMG]

    .... and Wallace running by our entire defense for a backbreaking 54 yard TD (was the difference in that game)
    [​IMG]

    ... and Wallace again allowing his QB to chuck it as far as he can and let Mike do the rest.
    [​IMG]

    Deep ball made easy when it's nearly impossible to overthrow the receiver.
    [​IMG]
     
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  31. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    Greg Cosell on Mike Wallace:

    December 15th, 2012 -- http://49ers.pressdemocrat.com/2011...run-the-ball-and-then-throw-off-the-run-game/

    So Antonio Brown, a 2nd year receiver, had already surpassed Mike Wallace as the Steeler's go to receiver in 2011. 2011 was Mike's chance to step up and become the receiver many of you think he is, and he was surpassed by Antonio Brown.

    http://www.thefinsiders.com/blog/2013/cosell-breaks-down-top-free-agent-wide-receivers

     
  32. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    All either vertical routes or a short dump off route that doesn't require timing or precision.
     
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  33. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    We don't know Harvin's cone or shuttle because he didn't go them before the draft. Austin's shuttle is 4.01 and that beats 95% of WRs. Wallace at 4.27 isn't bad. If this year it would put him between Ryan Swope and Cobi Hamilton.
    Wallace is 4.9 in the cone, which while not at the top, puts him about in the middle if at this year's combine. Better than Quinton Patton, Terrence Williams, Denard Robinson, and Robert Woods, among others.

    And no, neither Austin or Harvin's official 40 at the combine was as good as Wallace. Austin: 4.34, Harvin: 4.39, Wallace: 4.28. So neither one is as fast as Wallace.
     
  34. VanDolPhan

    VanDolPhan Club member Club Member

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    Wallace does concern me and I'd rather draft a couple guys. For instance last season Wallace was targeted just as much as Hartline....came away with less yard, less avg catch and more drops. I can't see this fanbase putting up with a guy who barely catches 1 of 2 balls thrown his way (55.2% catch rate) and relies on a QB like Ben who buys a lot of time. How is he going to function in an offense that is supposed to get rid of the ball fast?

    Give me Patterson and another of the WR's in the 3rd/4th (like Swope) over Wallace anyday.
     
  35. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    ...and Hartline cant score, nor makes plays after the catch, whereas Wallace can. Personally I'll take the guy with the greater yards per target who can score and change the game with one play. Not sure why that's being viewed as such a bad thing- a receiver who averages over 10 yards per target, 1000+ yards, and 8 TDs per season.

    You guys try to make it seem like he's a terrible receiver just b/c he doesn't run a complete route tree, when in fact he's one of the most productive and game-changing receivers in the league the past 4 years. When you're faster than any defender in the league you don't need to run a full route tree to be effective.


    Our receiving corps is garbage, so I'm not sure why we're talking about it as if spending money on it is unnecessary. Will Wallace be expensive? yes, but we have the cap space and extra draft picks this year to offset his contract. We can't just ignore the position and expect it to suddenly improve. We need results ASAP. How else would you guys like to allocate all that money?.... bring in a bunch of average guys so we can remain average?

    Bottom line: If we draft well then Wallace's contract will not matter; conversely, if we draft poorly it won't matter that we broke the bank on him.
     
  36. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    So tell me, how does he fit in a timing based passing offense without throwing out the timing aspect due to his poor route running?
     
  37. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    If we sign him then Philbin & Sherman obviously feel they can incorporate his skill set into the offense. You and others have made a big point to note Hartline's 8.4 yards per target in excusing his scoring production, as if the yards per target are supposed to make up for the lack of TDs. Not only does Wallace's 10 yards per target karate chop Hartline's, but his 26 extra TDs and 1300 extra yards puts Hartline's to shame. In my eyes, production is production, and Wallace has done nothing but produce.

    Cmon, the guy has 24 TDs of 25+ yards
    ..... and 16 TDs of at least 40 yards. That's once every 4 games. No punt, no FG, no turnover; skip directly to Go and collect 200 dollars.

    For comparison, outside of Hartline's busted coverage 80 yarder, his longest TD is 16 yards. That's a lot of stress to put on an offense, which Wallace now helps reduce.
     
  38. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    Yeah. When you sign a guy for $12+ million, you just incorporate what he does well within the offense. Let's see, what does Mike Wallace do well. Run vertical routes.

    So, basically you are paying this much money for a guy that can run 2-3 routes well, and you effectively limit your ability to run a complete route tree from his position on the field. This makes you predictable.

    Here's a great article that was written recently:

    http://blogs.thescore.com/nfl/2013/02/20/of-course-the-dolphins-will-overpay-for-mike-wallace/

    If this does happen, then this is the reason the move is being made. Stephen Ross is spearheading this move. Signing Mike Wallace has nothing to do with improving the football team. It has everything to do with trying to attract fan interest with excitement instead of results.

    I'm not the only one that recognizes Mike Wallace's weaknesses. What is beyond obvious is that the Dolphins fans that support this move DO NOT recognize those weaknesses.

    This is Alen's write up on Mike Wallace when he was a RFA last year:

    http://blogs.thescore.com/nfl/2012/02/23/the-tape-never-lies-evaluating-rfa-mike-wallace/

     
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  39. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    I don't know what Philbin & Sherman have in mind as far as scheme goes. Perhaps they'd rather bring in the talented Wallace and tweak the scheme than stay with the talentless group we currently have and keep the scheme the same.

    Question: Do you think a 10 yard per target, 1000+ yard & 8 TD per season, big play receiver makes this offense better, the same, or worse?
    He might not fit the offense as we know it to a T, but it's not like we're in a position to be picky. Wallace has talent. Let Philbin & Sherman earn their money figuring out how to best utilize it.
     
  40. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    That is just some blogger's opinion. He also said " he can’t take a short pass and turn it into a long gain while accumulating yards after the catch similar to, say, Michael Crabtree." Yet the gifs that Phinsational posted showed Wallace catching a shallow crosser and getting a whole bunch of YAC. Since that comment was baloney why should anyone believe the rest of it? There is so much hyperbole being tossed about regarding Wallace these days. No matter what any of us think, Miami will either sign him or not, and if they do I am 100% sure that Joe Philbin supports the decision.
     
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