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Welcome Back, Matt Moore

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by peakz, Mar 8, 2013.

  1. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Devlin has been with us two years if I'm not mistaken.
     
  2. gunn34

    gunn34 I miss Don & Dan

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    We have a really good QB group now. If the right offer comes in we could possibly trade one for a future draft pick. It's a win/win for this orginazation. Let's celebrate. Was the price a little higher then we would have liked.....yes. But guess what, it's the right move -vs- hoping we can do better later on.
     
  3. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    If the coaches are thinking of using TAnnehill more as a runner, and they should be, then having a proven backup seems like a good idea. If Tannehill is a one yr starter and not a proven commodity then a proven backup is a good idea.

    If he plays great and stays healthy then alriiiiight Miami. If he doesn't then it doesn't kill the season. I don't see how that's something to criticize.
     
  4. Rouk

    Rouk Well-Known Member

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    see this is a good signing unlike the hartline deal
     
  5. Canad-phin

    Canad-phin Active Member

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    I meant with Sherman and Philbin.
     
  6. PlanB

    PlanB New Member

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    Wow. I didn't see that happening. Guess he traded possibly starting somewhere for a safe realiable atmosphere for his family. At least he knows what he has here. I can dig that. :up:
     
  7. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I was one of the people who wanted Matt Moore cut. I didn't think he was a fit for the this offense. I was wrong. I'm not basing that off the one Jets game he played. I'm basing this off the fact that the team resigned him. They obviously think he fits, otherwise they would have let him walk.

    As for Pat Devlin, he's not going anywhere, IMO.
     
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  8. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    As long as the Jets don't draft Matt Barkley.
     
  9. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    BS everyone remembers it. People on this board wanted him cut or shipped off with a lot of people doubting we would even get a late round pick for him. See above. You lose ;)
     
  10. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Exactly. That signing basically set the bar for competent backup QBs. I'd rather have Moore as my #2 than Orton.
     
  11. Springveldt

    Springveldt Season Ticket Holder

    As I said, you know how it works but are purposely ignoring the reality of it to make a point.

    Yes I understand the salary cap as well thanks. Even although over the last 4 years the cap has been relatively fixed how much longer do you think that will last? Once the new TV deal kicks in, the economy comes out of recession etc the cap will start to rise again. You factor that in by staggering your payments over the contract.
    I'm not advocating giving Hartline a really small salary this year (like $250K) just to artificially keep his cap hit low (would be under $2M this year) but it wouldn't be unreasonable to make his salary $1.9M thus counting only $3.5M this year (8M signing bonus out of the $12.5M guaranteed) . You then structure the deal to have a few smaller increments and have a basically voidable last year that leaves you $1.6M in dead money. Something along the lines of 3.5, 5, 5.5, 6, 10. Hartline still sees $20M over 4 years and his agent still gets to claim he got him over $6M per year when in reality he only hits that $6M cap hit well into the future.

    You already know this though but choose to ignore to make a more dramatic impact with your current position.

    Functionally? How about reality instead. It doesn't matter that Hartline's average is $6.2M that ain't coming off the cap this year. I suppose the Chiefs will be in cap hell then with Bowe's deal? He's only counting $4M this season. If they used his average salary then between him and Hali they would be accounting for 21.5% of the total cap. They also did the same with Hali's deal last year, so they should be in cap hell already.

    I seriously doubt there is a single GM in the league that takes the average off of this year cap. Here are a few recent deals...

    [table="width: 500, align: left"]
    [tr]
    [td]Player[/td]
    [td]Average[/td]
    [td]First Year[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]DeSean Jackson[/td]
    [td]9.4[/td]
    [td]3[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]Dwayne Bowe[/td]
    [td]11.2[/td]
    [td]4[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]Tamba Hali[/td]
    [td]11.5[/td]
    [td]4[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]Calvin Johnson[/td]
    [td]18.8[/td]
    [td]11.5[/td]
    [/tr]
    [tr]
    [td]Cameron Wake[/td]
    [td]6.6[/td]
    [td]2.9[/td]
    [/tr]
    [/table]

    Interestingly Vincent Jackson had a heavily loaded first year of 15.4 against his 11.1 average but this year he is only counting 3.2. I guess the Bucs had a load of space to use last year. There are other examples of this type of deal like Andre Johson's deal counting 9.7 in his first year (the uncapped year) but then falling to 5.4 then 7.2 the next 2 years.
     
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  12. Rouk

    Rouk Well-Known Member

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    I believe forums are for discussion not to tell other people to shut up I can also agree with moves the team makes I just don't seem to drink this kool-aid some of you guys are on. Lets just take Anonymous post in this thread well I didn't think we should sign Moore but if the team did it they must be right that is the definition of kool-aid drinking. Stick to your opinions and try not to call each other names and we can have intelligent conversations on these forums.
     
  13. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Not really. Orton 3yrs/10 mil or 3.34 mil a season. Moore, 2yrs/8 mil or 4 mil person. On averages anyway Moore is paid more. Orton perhaps has a higher base salary this season.
     
  14. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I pray the Cards squelch the Bills plans and take Barkley. He is going to be a very good QB in the league. I don't want him in the AFCE.
     
  15. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    Now THIS deal makes sense.
     
  16. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I never fell into any of those categories. IMO, he is as good as Tannehill, at the least.
     
  17. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I appreciate you stepping up to the plate and saying so.
     
    Anonymous likes this.
  18. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I've been a Moore fan since his senior season in college. I thought he should have started last year. I know that puts me in the extreme minority. It is what it is.
     
  19. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    There are several pretty well-documented reports saying that this rise in the salary cap that was supposed to come about due to the renegotiation of TV contracts is much more myth than reality, especially since the NFLPA essentially "borrowed" from future years in order to get the overall salary caps in 2011, 2012 and 2013 to not go down dramatically from what they were. There is now not expected to be a rise at all when the new television contracts kick in. If you don't believe me, look it up.

    You should NOT assume that Brian Hartline agreed to the structure you just suggested, unless you have some evidence. That's a really huge jump in the final year and it changes the entire nature of the contract. Any agent worth anything knows the deal you just outlined is in fact just a 4 year deal.

    This is a pretty baseless accusation.

    I've made this clear but I don't think you're getting it. Any discount relative to the average compensation that you give yourself in the first year of a contract is a mirage. It's an accounting accrual. One that will be accounted for at some point. As a general manager you must always keep the long term salary structure of your team in mind. If you start giving yourself discounts via illusory accounting accruals, so that you can pay more money in the present than you are allowed, that catches up with you. This is cap hell. This is especially true now that salary cap space is completely transferrable year to year. So yes, the Dolphins functionally have about $23 or $24 million more money to work with after the above signings. Can they SQUEEZE more in after that $23 or $24 million? Absolutely. But to do so would be to reduce your future resources in a 1-for-1 fashion, and this is exactly how you get into cap hell.

    So perhaps I should say that the Dolphins have about $23 to $24 million remaining to work with before they need to begin "borrowing" against future years in order to buy more talent for the present? Would that satisfy you and get you to cease your baseless and insulting accusations?
     
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  20. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I don't want him in the AFCE either but it just so happens that the Bills hired a head coach that slobbered all over Matt Barkley back when he was a college coach and had to face him twice in two years, referring to him as the best quarterback in college football, even better than RG3 and Andrew Luck. He said that in like, September of 2012 too. Think of the amount of hype Luck and RG3 had gotten as they were being drafted and here's this guy saying 4 or 5 months later that Barkley was really better.

    Not sure Barkley is the Cardinals' cup of tea yet.
     
  21. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

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    I like Matt Moore. I would have been comfortable going into last season with him as the starter. But I wouldn't have signed him at that number. Devlin should be ready to be a backup and I think he is. He's been here for 2 years and started for 2 years in college. In his preseason playing time he hasn't looked particularly green nor have I seen any indication that he lacks composure, doesn't grasp the offense or is otherwise in over his head. That $4 million per year is pretty close to what I (and several others) expect Reggie Bush to cost and I think we'd have gotten a lot more value out of Bush.
     
  22. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    This is one of the best things about the organization lately. They haven't kicked any money down the road.
     
  23. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I remember you mentioning Marrone's affection for Barkley before. I seem to recall some report around the time of the combine, that the Cards really like him too. So, I'm just hoping they grab him. Being a pick ahead of the Bills, then need to play it close to the vest to prevent being jumped by the Bills, IMO. I wouldn't blame the Cards for moving up a few spots if possible to prevent the Bills jumping them. I think Barkley in a few years will be as good as Luck, RG3 or Tannehill. Had he been in last year's draft, IMO he'd have went top 4. I do not believe he lost any ability since then.
     
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  24. Phinfanjt

    Phinfanjt New Member

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    I'm perfectly fine with Buffalo picking Barkley. He has below average height and mobility and his arm strength is just average. His deep ball accuracy also isn't all that great. He'd be much better off playing indoors rather than the outdoor weather in Buffalo. Arizona is probably is best chance to succeed.
     
  25. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I agree with you. They've been good at that. It was really only a matter of time before the NFL "matured" with respect to accounting principles in this regard but it did take longer than I'd have expected. The last 5 years you've definitely seen marked improvement in teams' use of accounting accruals.

    And part of the reason is because teams don't think the way Springveld insists that I should be thinking...one year at a time, everything all about what the salary cap number is in the first year.

    The teams very rightly come up with a longer term estimate of the average impact of the player's salary and they operate that way, so that they can jump feet first knowing full well what they're doing if they find they need to make a decision to "borrow" more.
     
  26. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    There was a report about the Cards but given what I know about the Bills and what I'm sure the rest of the NFL knows about them, that struck me as the Cards trying to bluff the Bills into a trade up.
     
  27. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    How would the Cards benefit by getting the Bills to trade ahead of them?
     
  28. Onehondo

    Onehondo Senior Member Club Member

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    I was following Matt Moore because I really didn't think the Dolphins would or could bring him back. From what I have been watching and reading Moore was one of the top, if not the top Free Agent quarterback out there. As many quarterback needy teams as there are out there I really thought Matt Moore would get a chance to start for another team. I was pleasantly surprised when the Dolphins resigned him. Pat Devlin is just not experienced enough to be the sole backup for Tannehill IMHO.
     
  29. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    Ya that one person = the board. How could I not see that.
     
  30. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    When you're picking at #7 overall, everything you can do to ensure that even just one team ahead of you picks a player you don't want, gives you a dramatically increased chance of getting a player you do want. It is, at the very least, worth dropping a rumor.
     
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  31. TooGoodForDez

    TooGoodForDez Deion Sanders for GM

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    Trade bait
     
  32. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

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    By dramatically increased, you mean 16%. Right?
     
  33. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Could be some trade options as the season unfolds as well..keep developing Devlin and showcasin,and you might get a pick for him one day.
     
  34. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Tyrod Taylor.
     
  35. unifiedtheory

    unifiedtheory Sub Pending Luxury Box

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    This board is so polarized, it's an Ireland thing. Some people loathe Ireland so much that they can not admit it when he does something that even they like.

    I'm not an Ireland supporter. I don't believe he has done a god damn thing that warrants the patience and the teflon he has been granted. IF he was fired in February I would have been happy. He was not, I have to support him now.

    That said, I REALLY REALLY REALLY want him to succeed. Some people want him to fail, miserably, not thinking about what the long term consequences of said failure would mean for this franchise. If he is a miserable failure this offseason we are ****ed, long term. It could take the new GM 2-3 years to dig out of any cap hell Ireland leaves behind and at least that long to fill holes left behind while putting out the fires every GM has to deal with day to day.

    We have levels of Ireland"ism" on this board.

    1.) People who support him unconditionally. They will bring out long list of draft history and compare him to other GM's. They will point out all his "home runs", giving him all the credit but when his "strike outs" are brought up they claim "no one REALLY knows who made that decision, you can't blame everything on the GM".

    2.) People who are objective and like Ireland. They look at the good and the bad but support him because he is the GM and they like him and think he is doing a good job.

    3.) People who dislike him and would have been happy to see him fired. At the same time they can admit he has done some good things, want him to succeed and have some hope. This is where I land.

    4.) People who dislike him and want him fired tomorrow. They think he is incompetent and can't do anything right. That said, they will give him grudging respect when he does do something right but still think he should be fired and we are screwed until he is.

    5.) People who loathe him, want the team/franchise to fail miserably so they can say "I was right all along about Ireland, we should have never hired him". These people want a 2-14. These people want us to sign someone to a cap killing contract and want the franchise to become a laughing stock.

    People who land in category #1 and #5 are impossible to speak to about Ireland on any level and sadly, we have more of these people than people who land in categories 2-4.
     
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  36. TooGoodForDez

    TooGoodForDez Deion Sanders for GM

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    whoa nelly! that's an oxymoron, objective and like Ireland?
     
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  37. GreysonWinfield

    GreysonWinfield Release The Hounds

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    Great point that I was going to bring up. The landscape is ugly if you need a QB and to have someone familiar with your system who can step in as needed is huge. I would think they feel Devlin is not ready as a #2 more than Tannehill not being a #1.
     
  38. unifiedtheory

    unifiedtheory Sub Pending Luxury Box

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    There quite a few.
     
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  39. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Closer to 17% to be accurate but essentially, yes. That's a very dramatic return for merely dropping some rumors.
     
  40. DevilFin13

    DevilFin13 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I wasn't expecting Moore back. So this is a nice surprise. I think he is a good player. His ceiling might be that nice stretch he had for us a few years ago. But that's pretty good. Big props to both parties working this out.
     

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