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Hartline Signed

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by MAFishFan, Mar 7, 2013.

  1. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    FinD wishes he were that tall.
     
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  2. Steve-Mo

    Steve-Mo 'Saban' Guy

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    Indeed, but he finished with 3.6 and 56 yards the following year as well (Large Benjamin missed one game that year, but that game accounted for the most yardage anyway). Regardless, the point was to indicate how useless his statistical arguing point was.

    Wow, thanks for pointing that out to me. I'm surprised no one else brought this to my attention in various threads.

    But really, that factoid has been beaten to death and was pretty irrelevant to that exchange. After several hundreds of pages of "Hartline had 1 TD LMFAO OMFG!1 LEL" on this site I didn't think anyone would miss it anyway.
     
  3. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    Brandon Marshall is only productive because he is targeted so much.
     
  4. Rocky Raccoon

    Rocky Raccoon Greasepaint Ghost Staff Member

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    You're still bitter that I took your picture down and replaced it with his, aren't you?
     
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  5. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

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    that's besides the point.
     
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  6. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    this might be overthinking it a bit, but any chance signing Hartline as our #2 affects Wallace's decision to come here? You never know, he might be like "uhh, this is the guy that's supposed to keep me from getting constantly double-teamed?"
     
  7. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Not really. He averages 8.3 YPT according to PFF. That's a good number.
     
  8. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    On top of that his utilization number puts him at 61.5% (catches/targets). 5 or 6 percentage points higher than say a Hartline.

    This isn't Allen Iverson jacking up 40 shots, making 10 and getting 30 points a game.
     
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  9. Rouk

    Rouk Well-Known Member

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    kb21 is just a Marshall hater and a Hartline rider he talks about only producing with targets but doesn't mention Hartline being the only receiver with 115 plus targets to only net 1 td since at least 2006 which is as far as espn tracks targets.
     
  10. Steve-Mo

    Steve-Mo 'Saban' Guy

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    For what it's worth, L Coles 2004 - 168 targets, 1 TD. Figured I'd share since I found it.

    Also, LMAO at Chambers reeling in 59 catches in 154 targets in 2006. 4th in targets and 34th in receptions.
     
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  11. Rouk

    Rouk Well-Known Member

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    good find damn 168 targets to 1 td that could be all time bad
     
  12. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    I've got Marshall at 60.8%, while Hartline is at 57.8%.
     
  13. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    That's not all on Chambers. We don't know how many of the targets were even catchable.
     
  14. Steve-Mo

    Steve-Mo 'Saban' Guy

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    Sure, those weren't very good QBs. But passing to Chambers yielded a 38.3% completion percentage that year based on those stats. Passing to anyone else? Nearly 65%. I'm sure a lot were uncatchable both ways. That's just alarming though.
     
  15. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    We'd really need to know the number of dropped passes to go along with the targets and catches to have a fairly complete picture.
    I think I've seen 90% of the games Chambers played in Miami. I may have missed a couple early in 2002 as I recall. The thing that stuck out to me is he could make some really tough catches where he was fully extended parallel to and off the ground, where you'd say HTF did he catch that? Then, he could be wide open going across the middle and have the pass hit him right in the belly and drop it. Many people thought he was never the same after Kenoy Kennedy knocked him out in Denver, but his best season was probably 2005 which came after that.
     
  16. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm using KFFL's Utilization stats.

    That said, it's still higher. So yes he had a lot of targets and he caught alot of them too.
     
  17. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I remember going over this. he had a lot of targets, but a lot of them were throw aways. IIRC, he ran the deep routes. Whenever the QB bailed and threw it away, they assigned a ton of them to chambers because they have to assign it to someone. Each pass whether thrown away or not needs a target. When broken down, his catch percentage wasn't terrible. Easily verified by his number of drops. Now, I'm not saying he had the hands of Fitzgerald or anything. Just that, when you look into it, his numbers go from terrible to, just bad. :D
     
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  18. Steve-Mo

    Steve-Mo 'Saban' Guy

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    I think you're onto something with the throwaway thing. I'm inclined to believe your take on a break-down of the actual plays and it definitely seems like something one of the more ambitious souls on here would look into. It still stands out as it is because all teams must throw the ball away, thus all receivers are accumulating false "targets" and yet his is percentage is the lowest I can find from the +100 club (Edwards a close 2). Definitely logical that the QBs would be throwing away a lot in his area plus deep guys tend to have a lower % by the nature of the business, not to mention neither of the 3 QBs that year were particularly accurate (lol).
     
  19. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

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    Unless it was a change made recently, throw aways are not counted as targeted passes.
     
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  20. Steve-Mo

    Steve-Mo 'Saban' Guy

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    It should be noted that I'm using this and not PFF. I'm not sure if they differ in those categories.
     
  21. PSG

    PSG Clear Eyes. Full Hearts.

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    So, 6 mil eh?
    1 mil per TD or about 250k per fall down.
     
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  22. P h i N s A N i T y

    P h i N s A N i T y My Porpoise in Life

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    Yet only Half the money dwayne bowe got.... to keep our most consistent weapon on offense... and Tannehills go to guy. Plus you have to remember, he almost died and missed the entire off-season last year. Brian's great in his role, and when we get more talent aside him he can really be more productive with less targets ! Losing him and signing a FA like Jennings to replace him wouldn't be an automatic upgrade. But keeping him at a fair price and bringing in more help was the only sure way to enhance the passing game IMO. At this price I welcome him back. He's a grinder, a keeper, and he earned it.

    Tanneline 4 ever ! If only he would have signed that incentive latent proposal that offered 1m per TD !
     
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  23. Steve-Mo

    Steve-Mo 'Saban' Guy

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    Why bother dude? You know you're just going to be informed Hartline one logged 1 TD last year again anyway.
     
  24. P h i N s A N i T y

    P h i N s A N i T y My Porpoise in Life

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    hell, at 8m per year i'd of been on the other side !

    BTW... keep up the epic posting on PFT !:hi5:
     
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  25. rdhstlr23

    rdhstlr23 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Reading Ben Volin's tweets on Hartline's contract - in my mind, it's an AWESOME deal for Miami with great terms.

     
  26. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member


    Ben Volin ‏@BenVolinPBP
    So that's $4.615 million of cap space used on Hartline and Moore for 2013

    This validates both moves for me...great work El Jeffe....now finish the job...
     
  27. The G Man

    The G Man Git 'r doooonnne!!!

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    In my mind, that puts the resigning of Hartline into perspective. By today's standards that is a very modest amount to keep a solid #2 receiver around.

    Thanks rdhstlr23! :up:
     
  28. Caps

    Caps Movimiento Juvenil

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    Good info. 6mil a year for a quality #2 receiver is gonna look great by the 2015 season if the gold rush on WR's continues the way it has been.
     
  29. unluckyluciano

    unluckyluciano For My Hero JetsSuck

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    **** you Jeff ireland!
     
  30. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

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    Yeah, pretty good IMO. Could be that we sign Wqallace and draft another WR in the first 2 rounds and if the draftee, pans out, we release Hartline after the first 2 years. If so, it would effectively be a 2 year deal with cap hits of $2.115 and $6.185 in the first 2 years and then a $4.2M cap acceleration in year 3, which would be a 3 yr., $12.5 million deal (average of $4,166,666 per year). If the draftee doesn't pan out or isn't ready yet, we keep Hartline.
     
  31. The G Man

    The G Man Git 'r doooonnne!!!

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    So, what you're saying is it's not a bad insurance policy if Patterson isn't the real deal, eh? :wink2:
     
  32. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    So we should be around 33 million in cap space now, correct?
     
  33. I think Ireland should given a gold star for this deal if your numbers are correct. Im not a big Ireland supporter but he deserves credit when its due and here it is due. Hartline needs to develope an awarness of yardage markers now. he isnt going to fight his way to a 1st down or a TD so he needs to run his routes to catch the ball where it needs to be. If he can do that much he will continue to be a quiet asset for the team.
     
  34. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    If I wudda known you were gonna post that, I wouldn't have needed to punch in all the number in my pocket calculator. :) At least I know I did the numbers right because I got the same thing for the cap hit if he's cut after two years.
     
  35. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

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    That's the concept, although Patterson makes me nervous. I prefer KAllen or even Woods in the 2nd.
     
  36. Gunner

    Gunner Rock Hunter

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    I think this site is pretty accurate: http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/miami-dolphins/cap-hit/

    Cap is $123M

    We're at $91M after the Hartline/Moore deals and Starks tag

    So we're at $32M-ish
     
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  37. Rhody Phins Fan

    Rhody Phins Fan Well-Known Member

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    That isn't true. They don't have to assign every pass a target.
     
  38. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    32 million now with about 4 going to the draft picks in April. We should have about 28 million to spend left.
     
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  39. Claymore95

    Claymore95 Working on it... Club Member

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    I'm sure we'll still be talking to Starks too about a longer deal, hopefully they get something sorted out, in which case his cap impact for 2013 will also be reduced.
     
  40. Springveldt

    Springveldt Season Ticket Holder

    Here you go Mr C, this site is pretty good for cap info...

    Hartline Cap Hit
     
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