http://blogs.palmbeachpost.com/thed...wr-brian-hartline-and-qb-matt-moore-for-2013/ "The deals signed late last week by WR Brian Hartline and QB Matt Moore seem to be the rare “win-win:” The players got paid well and don’t have to worry about their contract situations anymore, and the Dolphins got cap-friendly deals that still give them plenty of room to spend in free agency. The Post obtained a copy of both contracts, and while Hartline did get $30.775 million over five years, and Moore got $8 million over two years, the two deals will use just $4.615 million in salary cap space in 2013. Moore now has the 13th-highest cap number on the Dolphins, and Hartline is 14th. So if you’re counting at home, Hartline received $12.5 million guaranteed (his signing bonus and first two base salaries), and $18.275 million of the $30.775 million is not guaranteed. Hartline received good money for a No. 2 wideout, but the contract is also heavily backloaded, protecting the Dolphins if Hartline’s play declines in later years." Looks better.
My bad in the thread title, that's both contracts adding up to a 4.6 cap hit for this year.. Even better.
The thread title is misleading. It is $4.6 million combined for both Hartline and Moore, as I understand it, with Hartline's deal taking up $2.1M of it and Moore $2.5M of it.
Hartline only counts $2.1M against the cap this year, Moore is $2.5M. Next year Moore counts $5.5M but we save $4M of that if he is cut.
Hartline only costing $2.115m against the 2013 cap is definitely good news, I was expecting $3-4m. And the contract looks not too painful to get out of after the first two years...if we need or want to, which hopefully isn't the case!
The amount of money actually changing hands for 2013 between the two players is $11.715 million. That means the Dolphins are deferring $7.1 million of DEAD WEIGHT into the future. Always keep that in mind. Always. People talk about "back loading" a contract and I'm not sure they realize that the salaries are back loaded in almost direct symmetry to the FRONT LOADING of the contracts in the way of bonuses. Matt Moore is going to make $4.0 million in 2013. That's the money that will enter his bank account. His average contract value over the 2 year life of the contract is...wait for it...$4.0 million! Brian Hartline will make $12.5 million in 2013 and 2014 (average: $6.25 million per year). That's the money that will enter his bank account. The average contract value over the 5 year life of his contract? Wait for it...$6.15 million! Funny how that works, eh? This is why I always use the average contract values when I'm doing the napkin math about how much salary cap I have left. Oh sure, you can "massage" a little bit more out of it in the near term...at a ONE FOR ONE expense against your future salary caps. It's just borrowing. Nothing is free.
The good news is that now the NFL allows free transfer of cap space from present years to future years. Are the Dolphins shoving $7.1 million of money paid into the future via dead weight? Absolutely. But they can counter that by maintaining $7.1 million in cap space under the 2013 Salary Cap, and then having that $7.1 million in cap space transferred to 2014.
The Hartline cap figure is nice work, good to see some attempt to offset that contract's impact on the cap in this particular season.
I agree with this. I see both deals as short term rentals. Moore for 1 year, then he can be traded to a QB needy team for small value (6th or so) and Hartline for 3 years, then released most likely.
On a serious note, there was something I was thinking about today that I hadn't seen mentioned. How great will the Moore signing be if after some time the Dolphins feel good about Devlin as backup, and a QB needy team pays a decent draft pick in a trade for him? Not only would that give you peace of mind knowing you are in good shape at QB in the short term, but you can parlay that into future value.
Seriously? If someone said to you that we shouldn't have paid Hartline $6.2 million a year, and that's why the deal is bad, what did any of these details change about that argument? They didn't change anything.
I love paying millions more for Hartline,Moore,and Starks the same players who led us to a 7-9 season
I really am confused by what you do not like about the deal CK. Maybe the breakdown is a little confusing but its 2.5 this year, and after three years we can cut him for only one million, right?
The money paid to him is what is advertised. You're paying him $12.5 million over 2013 and 2014. Some people might think that's too much for a guy as physically limited as him. I happen to be one of them. Whether you expense that $12.5 million over 2 or 3 years doesn't really matter to me. It's $12.5 million for 2 years of football service...at the least. It's $6.25 million a year. You have to understand, now that the salary cap space is freely tranferrable from year to year, I think ultra long term. I don't think, hey I've got $123 million of cap space in 2013 woo hoo. I think more along the lines of, cool I've got $650 million to commit how I want over the next 5 years. Brian Hartline just took $12.5 million of that $650 million for 2 years of football. And if I want that to be 3 years of football it's going to cost me $18.4 million. And if I want it to be 4 years of football, it's going to cost me $24.5 million. And finally, if I want it to be 5 years of football, $30.6 million. It's all in one big pot. Money paid is money paid. That's how you have to think of it. Do I think Brian Hartline should get $6.2 million per year from us when there are so many other options out there cheaper? Personally, no. I don't think so. I'm not going to commit suicide over it. They accepted 60 cents on the dollar for fear of ending up getting a guy that turns out to be a bust.
So CK, if I am understanding what you are saying about the break down, they simply deferred the cap to later years and even if he were cut after the next season we will still be hit for 6.2 mil on the cap even with him being gone?
If by next season you mean this upcoming one (i.e. we only keep him 1 year) then yes, we are on the hook for his salary plus his accelerated bonus so it's not feasible to cut him after 1 year as it actually costs you over $4M against the cap. If we cut him after 2 years we will get an accelerated one time hit of $4.2M for that year. Since he is scheduled to make $7.35M we get a cap saving of $3.15M. So in a very simple formula, if Hartline doesn't perform and you cut him after 2014 you could sign a replacement on a 1 year deal for $3.15M your cap number is the same but you then get the big saving of $7.55M the next year (as that was Hartline's number for 2016).
But maybe you could have had a very good WR for $7 million. That's his point. It's kicking the can down the road. Ok for short term, and isn't going to devastate your team. But eventually the piper will call you to join him
It's a good contract for us IMO. Only the first two years' base salaries are guaranteed. The bonus of $7m is also guaranteed. After the 2nd year, if you decide to cut him, you are saving cap room as follows: 2015 $3.15m 2016 $4.75m 2017 $6.15m The dead money on the $7m guaranteed bonus in those 3 years is: 2015 $4.2m 2016 $2.8m 2017 $1.4m What gets teams into trouble with the cap is when they rework a deal in say the 3rd year to save money against the cap (converting salary to bonus). The Dolphins don't do this as much as they used to and hopefully they keep it that way.
If we were to cut Brian Hartline after 2013 we will have paid him $12.5 million for one year of service. On the other hand, if they waited until after 2014 to cut him they'll still have only paid him $12.5 million but for two years of service. So reality says he can't/won't be cut after 2014. But like I said if you cut him after 2014 he'll have collected $12.5 million for his two years of service which is $6.25 million a year. How you expense it from there is just a matter of accrual accounting. But it gets expended one way or another. Shifting off some of the expense into 2015 as opposed to just 2013 and 2014 is not inherently "better". When you get to 2015 you'll certainly wish you expended it all in 2013 and 2014.
It is what it is. It is a $6.2 million per year deal, through and through. The fact that you're only expensing $2.115 million of it this year just means that $4.1 million has to be expensed some time in the future. Either way he's getting $6.2 million for every year he plays football for you. You can try and lose yourself in the maze of accrual accounting if you wish. Cash flow is what matters.
That statement is pretty shortsighted and ridiculous. Many of the same players that were on the Colts team that finished last in the NFL were on the team last year that went to the playoffs. You can say that about any team that was bad one year and good the next. By that logic the Dolphins should just get rid of Cam Wake and Ryan Tannehill while they're worried about the players on that 7-9 team. Hartline, Starks, and Moore weren't the problems on that 7-9 team.
you sound like an owner. I guess I just prefer to look at it from a capologist or GM (who has a good working relationship with his owner) point of view. I mean I appreciate the view that one would be trying to maximize cap value in the current year. Because if you are a winning team now, that inherently helps you in future years with so many cash problems and cap situations. I would much rather want a player willing to take less who is hungry to win a championship than a player who wants more, but has already won a championship. there is no set theory though and each player is different.
I think CK sounds like someone who is fiscally responsible. This is no different than using credit cards to buy something and celebrating that you got it for this month's minimum payment on the bill, when there is a balance out there that will need to be paid at some point... and it may be at a time when you would rather be spending your money on new things, not things you bought a year or two ago.
