I agree with all of that. And I love Austin as a prospect. The only thing we differ on is that IMO we'll have an easier time finding a good slot WR later in the draft than we will a DB, DE, or OT type.
Ogeltree on the weak side with Ellerbe in the middle, Wheeler at Sam, and Misi for depth would be outfrigginstanding. Xavier Rhodes is the other guy I like at 12. Gotta go thru Brady to do anything, that means pass rushers and guys who can cover.
Are we still talking Austin at 12? It isn't happening. If by chance we went WR it better be for Patterson. Go with guy with the highest ceiling.
I hear ya TP. The possibilities with Austin are endless. But who's gonna protect the QB? Are we seriously gonna go into the season with Lamar Miller and Daniel Thomas? We need corners, too. Based on last year I thought even a modest upgrade on offense would be enough. As of now we've made a substantial upgrade. My focus is now back on how to stomp a cleat hole in Brady's chest. Everything else is secondary IMO. It's not rational I know, I just really want to put an end to the evil empire.
Am I the only guy who likes Keenan Allen? He's bigger than Austin, more polished than Patterson, but I don't hear much about him. He didn't even make the Austin-Patterson poll .
He's a 1 story bungalow while Patterson and Austin are skyscrapers with 7 level parking lot underneath. What a convoluted way to say they both have much lower floors but their ceilings are insane compared to him. Honestly, I'm fine with either Patterson or Austin @ #12. That's a special talent there.
I agree with all this Mr J and definitely am not dismissing it.... but over the long run how many opportunities will we have to find a guy with Austin's ability, where as those other positions can be found every draft and virtually every FA? IMO Austin is an elite slot receiver prospect with Xfactor ability, and I personally don't see why we should pass on that for a guard that's still just a guard (albeit an elite one that I drool over), a corner that's still just a corner, or a running back that's still just a back. If we're talking an elite corner prospect like Revis, then i'd understand, but I don't think Milliner is even close to that..... plus there's no Adrian Peterson caliber back to take that high, and I don't see any reason to take a right tackle at #12. I love Johnathan Cooper, but is he that much better than Brian Schwenke that we should pass on a once-every-few-years caliber xfactor type player? That's where I'm at. We have enough picks to add solid corners, a back, and Oline help IMO, and the draft is strong in the 2nd-4th round in those areas. IMO the only other positions that merit attention are DE & DT (b/c I feel Ansah & Richardson are special talents) depending on what Ireland & Coyle have planned for Soliai, Starks, and Odrick. Unless one of the top players slides by chance, I don't think he prioritizes anyone ahead of Austin. IMO everything we've seen unfold in FA is a part of a greater plan that includes Tavon. I honestly would've been more inclined to bring in Wallace b/c of Austin. It's possible with all the time Ireland has spent watching WVU that he's felt similarly---- that perhaps Austin has been the plan all along and Wallace was the desired compliment, and what a compliment it would be. You're an ex QB. If Tavon hypothetically is indeed Ireland's coveted target, what would be the case you'd make as a QB to bring him in?
No, I like him too.... I've cooled off from him after injury and since then shifted focus to Austin. Then after signing Wallace & Hartline I've pretty much dropped him by default. Just don't see us adding a perimeter receiver in the 1st round with an elite slot guy on the board. I know Keenen can play the slot but I'm still operating under the assumption Ireland is looking for more than just a slot receiver, especially after his tremendous interest in Harvin in 2009.
Lots of recent mocks have had KeKe Mingo falling past 12. I'd be all over him as a nickel RDE to improve the pass rush. However, depending on the price tag, we might be better off with Abraham or Freeney on a short term deal while Vernon develops. Lets not forget that Wake is 31 years old, so we would still be in the market for a young DE even if Vernon develops as we all hope he will.
Question for the better football minds...... Do rookie CBs fair better in a zone scheme? I'm asking since it appears we are going to more of a zone coverage scheme (according to Boomer and KB).
You protect the quarterback by spreading the field and moving extra defenders away from their pass rush lanes. This is a strategy Joe Philbin has used before. In Green Bay, their response to poor pass protection up front was to spread the field and make quick throws to get the ball into the hands of the receivers quickly.
IMO, Keke Mingo needs to improve as a pass rusher himself before he improves someone else's pass rush. The tools are there, but they guy does not finish. That's an issue I have with the so called pass rushing prospects in this draft. Guys like Mingo and Jordan are billed as top flight pass rushers when in fact neither one are top flight at this point. They have tools, yes, but they don't produce on the field as pass rushers.
Don't agree with this not even a little bit. Yes, roll the guy from time and for the love of god do in the red zone ahead of the dumbest fugin play in football- the jump ball. But historically (please let's not let kapernick[sp?]/rg3 make us forget all of the many other football years), your qb makes his money/mark in the pocket. And if he doesn't have one to make it in he is on Brady vs the giants 2 rings winning rush. Motion will not ever make up protection. Your a football guy and you well know, as much as you politic for Austin, this game is won in the trenches and as of now, we're frightening low on soldiers.
Not if you can beaten on a 4 man rush heavens forbid a 3 and your qb is in his sophomore year. Guys, r we really trying to get around the oline, protecting Tanne because of Austin? As much as I yearn for kickass offense, which is what we,ve lacked every year since Marino (4 the exception of Pennington and I can't even believe I'm typing that), the koolade is getting to the point were I'm starting to dislike Austin. This forum is pushing me to that.
I would still love Austin, but I think Ireland will feel they have done "enough" at the WR spot to now go CB/OL or DE. He will probably look at WR in round 2-3-4 (3-4 more likely, imo). Though I love Austin, there is some talent in these rounds - they just have to get the right guy there. If Long walks, I think they will try to trade up with their other picks in round 1 and get one of the OTs. I won't be happy about that (giving up draft picks to basically be where they were last year - replacing a starter). But, it will solidify that position for the long haul. Assuming Long is not here ... I think their thinking will be in the following order: 1. OT (if possible - with trade up - seriously doubt one will drop to 12 - too many other teams behind us want one). 2. CB (Rhodes is probably favored; Trufant? He might even be there at the end of 1 top of 2). 3. DE (I don't want any part of the DEs at 12 - maybe if we dropped 8-10 slots and got 2 more picks). Even though CK is high on Werner. 4. OG (Warmack or Cooper). Warmack may be gone and I think Cooper could be had a bit lower (16-20 range). If Long re-ups with the Dolphins, then I think it's CB - DE - OG as the key areas on the table at #12 in the mind of Ireland.
Hope ck doesn't go off on me but mingo would be my definition of raw. He's a terrible 1st round pick. Not bad IMO, terrible. His technique is atrocious. His freak ability, yes, freakish. I'm certain heterosexual scouts have had fantasies about this dude. Project is a kind word but if it ever pays off, oh boy. Please, no experiments after this sensational fa period.
I don't think anyone can dismiss that xfactor being discussed. And if your a fin fan and aren't dying to see a team that can just plain outscore the opposition once again, your lying to yourself. I just can't convince myself that its the smart move. Listen, if its Austin on draft day, I'm giddy. Nervous as hell but giddy.
One benefit of going OG at 12, if we resign Long, is that we can let Jerry compete w Martin at RT and let the best man win. Jerry played some RT at Ole Miss and filled in at OT two years ago and did a decent job even at LT.
Why would Rhodes be favored? Trufant is a better choice for a team wanting to play more zone and is probably more ready to step in as a day 1 rookie starter than any corner besides Milliner.
I agree. And I we had Rodgers and co. I'd be all for it. Call me conservative but I still view Tanne as a pup who needs as much protection as he can get. At least for another year maybe two. In the mean time our best chance to beat people is doing what we did last year. Run run, throw when the numbers are in our favor. With the new additions we should be WAY better at punishing teams who load up on the run. But I don't think we are ready to put the weight if the offense on Tanne at this point.
I like him as well but can he play that spot and how often can you keep a strong-side linebacker on the field unless he's an incredible cover guy. Jones is certainly not a WLB. Best comparison would be Roosevelt Colvin with the Bears.
Von Miller with the Broncos plays the SLB in a pseudo-4-3 which is the same thing Miami does. Essentially you'd need a big DT/DE at the end to do it. One idea would be: - Sign Jake Long - Drop down in the draft and take Jarvis Jones - Trade up in the draft and Dacone Jones Now that's a pass rush...
I wonder if Werner could hold up in that capacity. You're essentially talking about a Robert Geathers/Justin Smith role where the guy has to weight about 285. I like Werner as a pure 4-3 pass rusher but as a hold the edge guy not quite. Jones out of UCLA is a hell of a player and on third down: DE- Wake DT- Jones DT- Odrick DE- Jones Would finish the job. In fact that's ridiculous, absolutely frightening.
Jarvis at 16-18, Dacone at 28. I'm not even opposed to just staying at 12 and taking Jones while trading up. You'd have an intact WR group, another RB in the the third round, a CB in FA, and perhaps OL depth in the third along with Jake.
I have some ideas on how to attack with Wallace, Austin, Hartline etc. I'm interested to hear your thoughts?
Miami typically kept Misi on the same side as Jared Odrick in the defense last year. I think Jones could be a 3-down player in this defense. In the base package he can play that SAM spot occupied by Misi last year. He can also probably play that Nickel DE role that Miami rotated so many guys at last year. Vernon, Misi, Kaddu - all of them saw snaps at that spot. I think Jones alleviates having to rotate so many guys there. I just hope Miami's not so tied up with Olivier Vernon that it'd preclude them from drafting Jones.
