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Every Brandon Gibson Target of 2012

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Stitches, Mar 16, 2013.

  1. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    Wallace and Miller are a step in the right direction, and Miller has some of the best and quickest feet I've seen to go along with his speed. Thigpen is a question mark. This WR corps had NO significant speed players contributing regularly, and imo if you resign Hartline and have Bess still, get some more speed at the position to add to the Wallace acquisition, bottom line.

    I am just so tired of hoping that slow Dolphins receivers pan out- fast ones like Clyde Gates bust as well, but I'd rather devote a roster spot to any number of WRs coming out rather than yet another slow Miami WR a la Wilford, Turner, Naane, etc. Austin, Goodwin, Wheaton, Rogers, Wilson, Bailey, Swope and many more. What a great draft for a WR needy team to have multiple 2nd and 3rd rd picks- Wallace was a very good start as per adding speed, but Gibson looks like deja vu as to the speed deficiencies that have plagued us the last several years- bottom line this might be a roster spot wasted as opposed tapping into this draft's WR talent. I hope I'm wrong.
     
  2. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I think you and several others are kind of getting tunnel vision here.

    There ARE other players, at other positions, many of which also have "special" qualities. The Dolphins just spent $100 million at the position on 3 players and still have a 4th one that is a proven #3 player and a 5th one they drafted a year ago that they like. They don't have to have tunnel vision for Tavon Austin in order to acquire someone with "special qualities".
     
  3. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    Exposed Cromartie with 2 Tds on 3 catches for 9 yards with a long of 6 yards? Really? He averaged right around 60 yards per game against the AFC East with 3 TDs in 4 games, hardly what I would call jokering.

    I'm not trying to be overly negative, I just don't like seeing us get WRs who have issues separating, and I think that Gibson qualifies as a receiver who has separation issues. 50 catches for 700 yards and 5 TDs is nothing to write home about. Looking at that body of work I'd rather keep the money and play Bess, plus I'd have another WR roster space open for the draft.

    Look at him grab some jersey here, he's a gritty player but at the same time the ref should have called him for the blatant holding. If I want grit I can always look to Bess and Hartline- even with Wallace we need to find more ways to get speed into the passing game, not less.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMAGyEOvEHo

    I'd rather see Houston grabbing Gibson's jersey because he was pulling away from him. Not likely.
     
    mbsinmisc likes this.
  4. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I do not agree. Boomer explained it quite well in the Club and I concur with his line of reasoning.
     
  5. DearbornDolfan

    DearbornDolfan Active Member

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    If the Phins are regularly going to run 4-wide, then you need six. In that area, if no other, I think Philbin will copy Green Bay. I don't imagine Bess is going to be here past this season, so we need a replacement now and I imagine not a dime of Gibson's contract is guaranteed. I would be perfectly happy if we selected Tavon Austin to eventually replace Bess and then got a guy later to compete for the sixth spot.
     
  6. Lt Dan

    Lt Dan Season Ticket Holder

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    Dude gets excited...big deal. to say he is looking for someone to take his picture is plain stupid
     
    Steve-Mo and Stitches like this.
  7. DearbornDolfan

    DearbornDolfan Active Member

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    Did you not see the out he ran against Cromartie? Any time a 4th WR (well, he's a fourth here) can make a very good starting CB looking stupid on an out in the end zone is a receiver I don't mind having.
     
  8. Lt Dan

    Lt Dan Season Ticket Holder

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    the fact that we have other needs is a reason though
     
  9. Lt Dan

    Lt Dan Season Ticket Holder

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    he's not always right
     
  10. DearbornDolfan

    DearbornDolfan Active Member

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    Who are we going to take? Not a corner, not with how bad the first round prospects are to a man (I mad a funny, heh) at zone coverage. Not a tackle, unless I'm wrong and Jake does end up signing in St. Louis. Not a tight end, because Eifert is no Vernon Davis and you don't take a TE in the top half of the first unless he has the physical talent of Davis. What else is there that we really need?
     
  11. Gunner

    Gunner Rock Hunter

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    After some of the receivers we ran out there last year all I can say is the more the merrier. Omar is still looking for the holes in Nannee's game and the other waiver wire duds we brought in weren't any better. These signings for me is like X-mass in March
     
  12. DearbornDolfan

    DearbornDolfan Active Member

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    Maybe you missed it, but Swope ran a 4.34 at the Combine. Nothing is in his highlights to suggest he's another short, slow white guy.
     
  13. vt_dolfan

    vt_dolfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    And that certainly may be the case....but....if you get back the original question of where the YAC will come from.....I believe they will draft a "Austin" esque type of player that will fit that mold.
     
  14. TooGoodForDez

    TooGoodForDez Deion Sanders for GM

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    For YAC they obviously trust Wallace and Hartline.
     
  15. jim1

    jim1 New Member

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    Not sure what you're referring to, I'm guessing that you misread what I wrote. I've been a fan of Swope for some time and I know he's fast.
     
  16. ThickbloodedPhin

    ThickbloodedPhin New Member

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    I thought CK's evaluation was well said. Initially thought he was the not-exactly-possesion Bess replacing chain mover but after watching the tape he's clearly not a slot. He needs to be on the perimeter for his bread and butter comeback route. As someone said much more similar to Hartline then bess. It will be interesting to see where he lines up and where he'll be on the roster.

    The concern for speed is justified. Anyone have Gibsons combine times? Cornerbacks need to break out of their backpedal for Shermans comeback based offense to work. Mike Wallace certainly has the speed to make them do that but the rest aren't much of a threat. That being said I'd still pass on Austin.
     
  17. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    He had a very pedestrian Pro Day.

    6003 and 206 lbs, ran a 4.59 with a 1.63 at the 10 yard split. Only 10 bench reps. A 34 inch vertical and 9'5" broad jump. A terrible 4.54 second shuttle, and 6.94 cone.
     
  18. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Ahhh...

    You mean this one?

    [​IMG]


    Nothing better than watching IBM get absolutely SMOKED!!! Hoping we see repeats of that this season.
     
  19. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    Hartline could very easily move into that slot WR role. He may even be more effective from there in beating press coverage and he provides arguably a greater threat from the slot.

    One advantage to Hartline is that since he's played split end throughout his career you can put him and Gibson on the line with the OL, moving Keller off of the line to give him a greater mismatch.
     
  20. sports24/7

    sports24/7 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Finally got around to watching that. I think there is a lot to like about this guy. Good size, great route runner, very good hands. I think the YAC thing is interesting. It's certainly a weakness, but I'm not sure it isn't correctable. He certainly doesn't lack the strength or lateral quickness to pick up yards after the catch and there are a few times where he does a nice job of that. Obviously those times are few and far between, but I think it's more of a lack on want-to than anything else. I think with good coaching that's an area he can improve on. It doesn't mean he will, but I do think he can.
     
  21. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Couldn't see them putting Hartline in the slot. I don't think he has any noteworthy history of it, and you're pulling him away from some really bread and butter stuff that he does quite well.

    The Dolphins probably aren't going to let their wide receivers get more than >80% of offensive snaps like Green Bay typically does. Gibson will likely get a pretty solid snap count just rotating in Hartline and Wallace's spots, and I think the slot stuff won't so much be handled by Hartline/Wallace/Gibson.
     
  22. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    He's done in it in college so I don't see any reason why he can't. In 2009 I think he played there quite often. That said you could have a specialty formation:

    - Wallace
    - Hartline
    - Gibson
    - Keller
    - Austin

    If the defense keeps a LB in, Austin kicks outside. If they put a fifth defensive back in there, you're going to run ruff shod over there. What is that a pesos formation? Seven defensive backs? It'd be absurd and it might be their plan.

    Tavon Austin ran for what 300 yards on Oklahoma?

    Teams aren't equipped to stop five pass catching threats.
     
  23. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You're right, he did play the slot more often but to what extent and what results? I know he did it more often in college and I should go look at that some more.

    I would think that if Philbin/Sherman saw him as a potential slot guy he'd have lined up there more often this year. PFF has him at 5.4% of his passing down snaps in the slot. That's not really explained by having a relatively dedicated slot guy in Bess, every wide receiver and tight end in the offense lined up there at least 3x more frequently besides Jeron Mastrud and Jabar Gaffney.

    I'm personally most curious how often they expect Dustin Keller to do it.
     
  24. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    They probably are hoping teams line in up in a dime formation against them and they can take advantage of that by pounding them on the ground. Keller will likely be in the slot as a WR on most plays.
     
  25. jrry32

    jrry32 New Member

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    As a Rams fan, I cannot tell you how much respect I have for you after this post. You hit the nail right on the head. I am one of those people who takes football a little too seriously(reviewed every one of our games on the coach's film function on NFL Rewind) and I think I'm fairly knowledgeable about the game. I don't think I could have said it better myself. Watching Gibson for 3.5 years with the Rams, he is what he is. He is an outside WR who does his best work along the sidelines. He's an average player. But if you guys are going to use him as a #4 WR, he should be fine in that role. He's a real classy guy and a good guy in the locker-room but he's just not a special football player.

    His mental mistakes are really what soured a lot of Rams fans on him. Before this year, he had drops at the worst times. This year, he was better than in the past when it came to that but he still made some bad mistakes including failing to line-up on the LOS on a play where Bradford hit Amendola for an 80 yard catch in OT. That game ended up tied because the play got called back when the refs flagged Gibson for it.

    Gibson just isn't a guy that can separate consistently and really struggled against press man. I saw someone reference the Jets game. While Gibson had a couple nice plays, he was invisible for most that game and our passing game was atrocious because the Jets CBs were devouring our WRs in press man coverage.

    If there's any upside to being a #3 or #4 WR, he should see less press coverage and face off on some lesser CBs. Which is why the role fits him well.

    Really, the biggest issues throughout Gibson's career have been mental issues and inconsistency. He could probably be a solid #2 WR if he ever put it all together despite his athletic limitations but he just hasn't been able to do it. I don't feel confident that he ever will.

    I do wish him the best of luck, though. He was very gracious and classy in the way he left the team and the way he conducted himself while on the team.
     
  26. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Thanks for chiming in. It is good o hear from someone who has watched all of the coaches tape. I only watched four games' worth so obviously I wasn't going to be able to catch every single instance of mental mistakes, but I certainly saw enough in those four games to be concerned. That's a hell of a costly mistake, costing your team a victory by not getting lined up in OT.
     
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  27. Xeticus

    Xeticus Junior Member

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    I loved watching Orende play. All he did was make difficult catches. The regime did not value him enough.
     
  28. Stitches

    Stitches ThePhin's Biggest Killjoy Luxury Box

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    :confused:

    How so? He never played for anyone but the Dolphins, and was only healthy enough to play 12 games in his last two seasons.
     
  29. DolfanTom

    DolfanTom Livin' and Dyin' w/ Ryan!

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    I see a pretty solid player there. And a nice fourth quarter against the Bills who - you know - we play twice :-)
     
  30. DolfanTom

    DolfanTom Livin' and Dyin' w/ Ryan!

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    Oh, he was THAT guy who made that mistake in the Niner game. Ouch, I watched that one live, it must've killed you. Pretty big mistake right there - I hope he got it out of his system by now.

    Thanks for the honest feedback on the guy. Sounds like he's getting better, though, and hopefully he keeps ascending after he joins us.
     
  31. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Aside from that mistake, I noticed other mistakes. I think there's a reason jrry32 said it was a consistent problem. Among the mistakes I noticed:

    1. Several instances he was not aware of the clock or situation when it came to decisions whether to keep the play alive or go out of bounds. One was in a hail mary situation where Bradford chose to throw a mid level pass at him and he just ran out of bounds willingly with triple 0's on the clock. Game over. Another was a play where they got the snap off just before the 2 minute warning and he caught a ball in the red zone and went out of bounds willingly as if to conserve clock even though he should've known the 2 minute warning was coming and so they really NEEDED those extra 5 yards in the tight red area. Critical mental failure in a critical situation.

    2. Several instances he was not on the same page with Sam Bradford. This includes one blitz where Bradford clearly communicated his intent to go hot route to Gibson at the line and Gibson even acknowledged the communication by putting his hand in the air, and then Gibson just ran straight forward and failed to cut off the route the way he'd just agreed to do. These were not "Oh well the problem COULD have been Bradford, ya never know..." mistakes. These were clear mistakes on the receiver's part.

    3. At least one instance where they got into a hurry-up offense and Gibson was just lackadaisically taking his time and wasn't ready for the snap as it went off.

    4. At least two instances where he caught the ball on 3rd or 4th down and went to the ground shy of the 1st down marker instead of fighting with physical strength for the extra yard that would've assured the 1st down.

    5. The failure to line up properly on the 80 yard pass to Danny Amendola in overtime.

    This was all in just four games' worth of coaches tape on Gibson. It's not a full accounting for the whole year. That's what is kind of scary. These are the kind of brain fart mistakes and awareness issues I've come to accept that you're going to have to live with in a guy like Cordarrelle Patterson especially as a rookie. But he's ridiculously dynamic. I don't expect to have to deal with these kinds of issues in a 4th year veteran who runs a 4.59 and has bad agility and explosive metrics, bad physical strength, and is supposed to make his living off being a "high football IQ" guy.
     
  32. xphinfanx

    xphinfanx Stay strong my friends.

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    This is a very good addition. Snagged him while Long was keeping the Rams office tied up.

    [​IMG]
     
  33. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    The Rams had no interest in bringing him back.
     
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  34. BigNastyDB13

    BigNastyDB13 Well-Known Member

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    Taking Austin 12th when you have glaring needs at CB and ot is ridiculous. I'd much prefer Trufant/Rhodes replacing one of the garbage CBS we have than Austin replacing Bess when Austin wouldn't be a starter or see roughly half the offensive snaps while passing on a starting CB. Just doesn't make sense. I doubt if Austin would even outproduce Bess this season. Nobody really mentioned Austin at 12 until after the combine. Now an overwhelming amount of people want him even after picking up 2 wrs in fa. You don't draft based off the combine, that'll get you looking like the raiders in the long run. You definitely don't take a slot guy when you have more important needs and especially when he's not even the top wr. Might as well take Patterson so he can replace Hartline and his big salary 2-3 years from now. Upside is much higher than Austins.
     
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  35. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    It wouldn't be a ridiculous draft pick but I don't think it's one that the Dolphins will even consider to be honest. People have tunnel vision as if Austin is the only special player in the Draft. He's not. There are other good players at positions of greater need.
     
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  36. Jaj

    Jaj Registered

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    In most years we hear trade down, trade down but this year it doesn't seem to the be the case. Ireland is pick obsessed and I don't see a reason why he wouldn't trade down this year, perhaps even twice to get a 2nd and a 3rd, as well as trade Davone Bess.

    The strength of this draft looks like it's somewhere around the 20s-40s.
     
  37. BigNastyDB13

    BigNastyDB13 Well-Known Member

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    I don't put nearly as much stock into the combine as others apparently do. Dolphins fans seem to "follow the crowd" when it comes to pre draft wants. Fans who haven't seen much of the prospects coming out watch the combine and then see where others are talking up a player and just regurgitate what others say. The dolphins shouldn't entertain the idea of Austin at 12. Coming from a guy who has always screamed for more playmakers and less linemen it really says something that I'd much prefer taking a CB, ot or even de at 12.
     
  38. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I'm not sure if this is what you are implying, but if you are implying that Tavon Austin is a workout warrior that gets people excited at the Combine but not on tape then that would be a terrible, terrible way to paint him as a prospect. He was one of the most electric, exciting and dependable football players in all of college football in 2012. Nobody even knew what he'd run in the 40 yard dash because he'd never ran one even on campus before, but it didn't matter.

    I think people are just getting tunnel vision about the position. The player is probably worth it but the position isn't going to be enough of a priority anymore for them to consider it.
     
  39. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    There are plenty of other players who are better values. But none of them have YouTube highlight videos like Austin so he's always going to be more popular.
     
  40. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    This Austin hate for being great is getting ridiculous..
     

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