IMO, this doesn't make sense. Why would anyone have traded for him considering all the tackle talent that has been available? And how is not overspending for an aging tackle be a gain?
How can you extend him just to trade him? His entire signing bonus would be accelerated onto our cap. If it were as simple as that, the NFL would be the NBA and Houston would have gotten something for Williams, Pitt would have gotten something for Wallace, etc. As for letting him enter FA, his contract was from the ridiculous rookie wage days. The only way to prevent it was to franchise him to the tune of $15 million+.
Couldnt agree more. No need to pay 9 million for a LT in an offense that uses a ZBS and mostly 3-5 step drops in the pass game. Long will be missed but an elite LT isn't really necessary for what we do on offense. The key will be using the money we aren't spending on Jake to make the team better in other areas. Better pass rush tops the list IMO, followed by solidifying our run game and pass coverage. DE and CB is what I'd be looking at.
Actually, I was thinking about that earlier today after reading Long to Rams news. Why not move Jerry to T and get a guard (promote Samuda?) While we can debate how effective that might be, it's certainly cheaper.
#1 what? we drafted Long #1, 2nd pick was Henne in 2nd rd. So easy to say trade up- sure they could have, but again hindsite. They wanted him in the 2nd rd, and that seemed reasonable. You can't seriously think that we woudl have considered Flacco at #1 overall btw.
At this point we all need to get over it. Rehashing the debate that went on before '08 draft and anything about his signing with St Louis is pointless. The real question is what is the path forward? I have to think that the FO was prepared for Jake to leave and has a backup plan in place for it. Frankly, I think we've done enough FA shopping and need to focus on the draft, but I wouldn't mind bringing Garner back in the fold. Besides, he'd be fairly cheap and can play every position on the line competently.
Had we drafted Matt Ryan, we could have traded up into the 1st, same as Atlanta did, and drafted either Baker or Duane Brown. For that matter, in 2007, Carey didn't play all that badly at LT.
So what? Baker isn't very good. Matt Ryan has survived with subpar protection at LT and has been much, much better than Henne.
Must've not played well enough since we used our #1 overall. Even if we had a LT. Ryan wouldn't have had the same success here as he's had in Atlanta. To me, he's struggled even with 3 great targets.
Why do you keep trying to turn this into a discussion about player talent? When did I say these players aren't talented? I'm talking about Jeff Ireland's ability to retain talented players. Good left tackles and cornerbacks fit any system.
Matt Ryan made the playoffs with Roddy White alone. Quarterbacks are more than the sum of the other 10 players on offense.
Ability to retain? What are you even talking about? Are you suggesting that Ireland has some sort of mental gap that stops him from resigning players? That it has nothing to do with how much these players want in regards to their performance he is just incapable? And no, good LTs and CBs do not fit any system.
I'm saying Jeff Ireland needs to do a better job retaining the talent he has. No NFL GM can be successful in the NFL if they cannot retain their most crucial players. To your other point - tell me one team that wouldn't take Jake Long on their roster if cost wasn't a concern or if they didn't have a more talented player on roster? Same with Darelle Revis. Are you going to tell me there is a system in the NFL Darelle Revis couldn't play in?
Why is cost not a factor for your assessments and questions? Why should Ireland keep Long for the money Long wanted? Why should any team pay the cost for Revis? You want to take out a half the equation, by saying "if cost wasn't a concern". If cost wasn't a concern what team wouldn't have Revis, Joe Thomas, Tom Brady and Peyton Manning throwing to Megatron and Fitz, with Adrian Peterson running the ball....and since those guys aren't on our team, Ireland sucks. If Jake & Smith want more money then they are worth, why is Ireland foolish or deficient for not giving them more than they are worth? It makes no sense Blitz.
UGH. Cost IS an equation in determining which players to keep. But you're shifting the topic again to fit your argument. You stated good cornerbacks or LTs can't fit any system. I said they can. 2 separate topics - Ireland's ability to retain players. Yes, I understand cost is a concern but other GMs typically do a better job at retaining first round draft picks. Managing costs and cap and player negotiations is a skill. Maybe Ireland needs to get better at it. Talented players fitting systems - I'm saying the good ones can play in any system. Like Darrelle Revis. Obviously not every team can afford a Darrelle Revis but any team that could, would.
New regime, wants their own players. Simple as that. Carey graded out well enough in 2007. Re:flacco. I'm not going to get into that, but we had 2 2nd rounders. If they wanted him, they could have made a move. But they weren't. Parcells sent Ireland, Sparano, and Henning out on a scouting trip. They visited Ryan, Flacco and Henne and they came back and raved about Henne. He would be every bit as good as Ryan or Flacco. So there was no way they would use a high 1, or a mid 1 on Ryan and Flacco. They were going to get Trent Green quality at Jay Fiedler prices with Chad Henne
They could have traded up for joe. They had the ammo to beat Baltimore, instead they went with Henne. That not long was the failure of that draft. And if we aren't now a zone team, Long is still here. Sent from my SGH-T959V using Tapatalk 2
Arguing about the past is pointless. Who we shoulda/coulda drafted/traded up for isn't going to fix anything and feels like crying over spilt milk. Accept it and move on.
In fairness to Ireland I do not know that Longs departure can be laid at his feet. It is very possible that this is more on Long then Ireland and it might also be on Philbin. Who is to say that this was not a case of an athelete with a super inflated ego did not like the new regimes disciplinary structure. Long may have decided he was leaving sometime last year because he felt unappriciated by his new coaches. I am also suspicious that the indecission he showed to signed with the rams initially and the leaked reports that odds were good that he would be returning to miami was more brinksmanship by him and his agent using Miami to leverage either the Rams or the Steelers to up their offers. Jake and his agent were looking for a number closer to $12M and he only got $9M. That was a blow to his ego and a lower ceiling then what his agent was hoping to set on the postion. Maybe Miami was never a consideration. It would not be the first time Miami got and Ireland got used in this manner. Personaly I would of been happy if we could of signed him for $7M and backloaded to see if his injuries continued or not. While his injuries are not long term ones I do wonder if he is just clumsy and they will persist through out his career. He strikes me as being a bit lazy when it comes to techniquic disipline. He relies on his physical ability to compensate and I think it might explain why he gets hurt. FTR I would of grumbled if they gave him $8M but I think that would of been acceptable. $9M IMO is just too high. Another consideration in this is Tannehills ability as a QB. He seems to play better out of the pocket than he does in it. Im not saying he didnt show decent pocket pressence because he did and it improved as the season progressed but some of his best was work was when he rolled out. I also think if Sherman designs more shotgun plays it will help compensate for a struggling OLT. We may also see plays that we keep an extra man back to help block. Point being that there are things that can be done to compensate for the loss. Short term this may be a step backward for the team but it could be a step forward for the team overall.
Drafting Joe Flacco #1 overall was not an option in that draft. Most had a 2nd round grade on him which is why we expected to get him in the 2nd. Baltimore jumping up to get him in the 1st was the surprise. Anything else is revisionist history.
It isn't so much revisionist history when you consider they drafted... Drum roll, please... An offensive lineman with the first pick. : /
Taking Long was just Parcells going for the BPA in his mind. Ryan struggled? His rookie QB rating, his career QB rating, and the Falcons W-L pct does not reflect that. As a rookie he did not have Jones or Gonzalez and he still had a passer rating of 87.7 throwing to Roddy White and a bunch of journeyman receivers. He also had the 2nd best QB rating from PFF as a rookie. He has been rated by PFF, 2nd, 20th, 1st, 4th, and 5th in their rating system in his 5 seasons in the league. He has never had a passer rating under 80. If you consider that struggling, you have some pretty tough parameters.
Then you shouldn't have gone into a thread about a player that signed with another team. Nobody is going to talk about Long's future with the Dolphins after he signs with the Rams.
Get off it, man. All you're doing is beating that drum loud because you like the noise. Good Achin' Grief! Why don't you come up with something constructive to say rather than just complain and vetch! In other words: It is history. It is Done!!! When you invent the time machine which can take us back to correct mistakes, I have about eighty five more important ones than football to consider!
Im calling bullcrap on there being 85 things more important than football. Football is a top 3 priority.
Joe Flacco is overrated as hell. He didn't deserve that 120 million dollar contract and without the ravens D, they might not even make the playoffs. Eli Manning 2.0.
wow were hating on eli manning now really you can't be serious I mean hes not peyton but who is. Also im pretty sure the ravens are the only team to make the playoffs every year since flacco has been in the league. So yes lets hate on him to why not.
Parcels took Long. He had Chad Pennington and if Chad had not been injured he would have started over Henne. Henne was a bad pick but Parcels never went big time on his QBs anyway and anywhere he coached. The only two he put faith in was Bledsoe and Henne and he failed both times. Jake went for the money, cannot blame him for that. On the other Hand Ireland stuck to his offering price, cannot blame him for that. 16 million guaranteed is a lot of money for Jake. He was healthy in 2011 and still finished on IR and did not play great before his injury. He was healthy in 2012 and finished on IR and did not play great before his injury. I was told someone was going to pay Jake and they did. Jake was no longer held high on a pedastal as when Sparano was here. Philbin does not believe in that. Fisher is a personable guy but IMO, Jake is going to be the same as he was in 2011 and in 2012. Difference is they have a QB with a little experience and a gun for an arm. SF, Seattle and even AZ have good DEs and Jake now plays them all twice a season. Best of luck to him but IMO, Rams paid a lot of money for an average or slightly above average LT Jake is not able to play like Jake of his first two years.. IMo we need a LT now, Martin is not the answer and neither is Winston and above all not Volmer. Do not even mention Smith because he will stay in shape until the ink is dry on the check then he will leave the building like Carey did. Hate to say it but we just may have to take a tackle at 12. There is plenty of good ones this year. Now we will have an entirely reshuffled Oline again. We also need a RG because Jerry is just not getting it LT Martin or new guy ( would rather have new guy from draft ) LG Incognito C Pouncey RG Jery or new guy, would rather have new guy Jerry ? ( yuck ) RT Martin or new guy. Actually would rather draft a LT and keep Martin at RT Divide it anyway you want, we now have two legit Olineman that could start on most teams in the NFL, Incognito and Pouncey. The rest have question marks and have played below average.
UGH now I will have to listen to my pinhead neighbor of how they beat us out for Fisher and now for Long. Like I said, if Long plays this year like he did in 2012 this is no big loss for us.
My question is, considering the fact we lost the #1 pick in the 2008 draft in free agency, but signed a number of free agents this year. Will the Dolphins get a supplemental pick for Long or will our free agent signings cancel out this possible pick? If we do end up with a pick for Long, will it be in the 2013 draft or the 2014 draft. I assume the pick would be in 2014, but I'm not really sure. Anyone who is an expert in this area, I would appreciate you passing along your knowledge.
We lost a number one pick in FA because of his injuries and the way he has been playing. If Jake had played at a high level without the injuries they would have extended him last year. Then again if the kid was not happy in South Florida as has been reported, it didn't matter what we offered him. Lets face it, Jake was not the Jake we drafted and I seriously doubt he is going to be much better in St. Louis. The best LT in the league ? not anymore but surely far from being the worst.
