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Offensive Line

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Da 'Fins, Mar 24, 2013.

  1. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    Who knows what the Dolphins are planning here but it seems to me that the weapons (the three receivers) they have brought in are a) not enough as yet (I think they could use another); and, more vitally, b) not going to do much of RT does not have serious protection.

    I feel really good about one position (Center). Decent about another (OG - Incognito). Beyond that, there are way too many variables.

    I really wish they would add Moore and Winston. But, if they don't, I don't see how they can flirt with WR (which is what I'd really like to be able to do) or DE or CB with the #12 pick. I think they almost have to be locked into one of the top 5 linemen there.

    Everyone sees the value of the LT's there. At the same time, I think the OG's have great value as well. Edge rushers are big in the NFL. But, perhaps the most disruptive problem to a QB is the collapsing pocket. If the center 3 are not able to hold that - (either by being collapsed or letting players sift through), any passing play is blown up.

    Would just hate to go into the draft with multiple needs along the OL. Even if they spent a number of picks there - that still is risky.

    Observations on this?
     
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  2. Alex13

    Alex13 Tua Time !!! Club Member

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    its still a process, we probably don´t know about the real worrisome positions until after the draft
     
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  3. smhemi

    smhemi Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    My observation is Big Ben won a superbowl with one of the worst pass blocking offensive lines ever and I hope we do too:up:
     
  4. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    Offensive line seems to me one of the harder positions to solidify long term via free agency. We should learn the lessons from Smiley, Grove, etc... Even studs like Mark Dixon didn't really work out. I'd be okay with signing Winston, but we're kidding ourselves to think he's anything more than stopgap. We need to spend draft picks
     
  5. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    I think if you shore up the OL with at least Winston, someone who can a) play the RT spot adequately and b) could end up as your swing tackle, should you be able to grab another tackle in the draft.

    I don't have much confidence in Garner as a starter, although if healthy someone who can contribute in several different spots along the OL in a pinch. Now, the company line is that they have a gem in Yeatman and then there's talk about moving JJ to RT....I don't know about those moves as a) we've seen nothing from Yeatman yet (and that's not a knock, just that he hasn't lined up in a game at any OL position) and b) JJ has a history of not only not coming into camp/offseason camps overweight and out of shape. We just don't know if he's matured yet and can control his weight issues...

    I don't think you go into the draft with Yeatman and Garner as your only options. Now, we're assuming that the medicals have checked out with Winston and that he's ready to play...we don't really know that...that could be a hold up or it could just be a simple staredown over money.

    But I'd certainly like to see us with at least on OL that can start at RT or LT in FA for us before the draft...
     
  6. Phoenician Fan

    Phoenician Fan Well-Known Member

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    The least they could do is sign one starter and another veteran that will be cheap. I would love a couple stop gaps.

    Give me Vollmer or Brandon Moore and then sign somebody like a Winston Justice. Justice never stays healthy long enough for him to get any credit but on the rare occasions when he is healthy, he is a top 5 PBE guy. I think he was actually grading out 1st again last year before his first injury, and then, of course later he went on IR, a very familar place for him; but he isn't going to get paid anymore, he will probably be available very very cheap, and if he does stay healthy, you make out like a bandit. He is only 28. He is another RT that could probably the left side as well, his athleticism is beyond freakish.
     
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  7. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    I think the offensive line philosophy has changed from where we were with Parcells and Sparano. Instead of spending huge resources on the offensive line talent, I think we're going to be more like the Patriots and have a very talented guy here or there, and coach up the rest. I think Philbin and company put more responsibility on themselves and their assistants to develop players like these and get them playing like they need them to play. If that's the case, then you spend your cap money for the kinds of characteristics that you need, that can't be coached (i.e., speed at WR and TE), and you get bargains on the OL. I suspect players like Winston and Moore are asking too much for Philbin and company's taste at this point.
     
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  8. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Philbin admitted that he wants to spend more time coaching/teaching, and that last year it was tough because he was inundated with all the minutia that comes with being a first time HC. Also mentioned that because of the same reasons he wasn't as involved with the FA period last year as he would have liked.
     
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  9. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well, EVERY team would love to be able to spend all your money and picks picking up glamour fast guys and just let the other guys fall into place. That is the dream of everybody.
    We, at this juncture, have one very promising youngster, one guy that has played pretty well the last 1-1/2 seasons, one guy that might or might not turn the corner, but to date has absolutely sucked....and then nothing. To just take a couple of guys off the street and expect them to make a difference is unrealistic. It just doesn't happen. not for us, not for anybody including the Patriots. THEY already had the key guys in place before they started plugging lower tier guys in. We don't have that luxery cause we don't have the foundation of 2 or 3 guys yet....maybe if my man Jon-Mart comes into his own, but not at this juncture we don't.

    This sounds great in theory, but isn't it every coach that wants to.. you know......coach?

    Philbin et el are not unique in that they want to bring in guys they like personally or whatever, won't break the bank or cost high draft picks and just coach them up. EVERY team in the NFL is trying to do this.
     
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  10. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Huh?

    You know first time HCs have more to do then second year HCs...right?
     
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  11. ATLFINFAN

    ATLFINFAN Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    N.E. might have a couple of good OL but MOST of their success on offense is because of the Brady to Welker, or Edleman, get rid of the ball quick pattern. This is part of what I think Austin can do for Tanny. Austin can help cover up some OL short comings.
     
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  12. pumpdogs

    pumpdogs Well-Known Member

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    Aaron Rodgers did also.
     
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  13. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Offensive linemen are very boring and I never pay attention to them because it isn't where the ball is so I don't believe they are important.*


    *That being said I do reserve the right to complain when bad offensive line play becomes a problem, but will probably just misidentify it as boring playcalling instead
     
  14. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Thee...Ohio State University
    Philbins Packers won a SB against a Dick Lebeau defense with what many considered a marginal OL.
     
  15. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Thee...Ohio State University
    Damn you.
     
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  16. Hurricane

    Hurricane Guest

    I know that scheme is important and that there are a lot more variables involved, but think a major factor in offensive line success is continuity. The NY Giants are a perfect example. They had the same 4-5 guys out there every year for the better part of the late 2000's and it wound up being the best in the game. More than any other position, on the line, it's paramount to know the tendencies and behavior of the guys next to you. I think we have a solid building block in Pouncey; optimally, we'd fill in the other positions with young guys with potential that could stick together for the decade. Like him or not, Martin fits the bill, too.
     
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  17. Lee2000

    Lee2000 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Philbin is a former OL coach, and I am sure he knows what is going on. I have no doubt they have a plan that the rest of us will find out. That and the secondary. With that said, I do wonder how much Yeatman plays in here.
     
  18. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    With Vollmer no longer available I am officially worried. 6 years in and this OL is still a mess...I mean seriously wtf are we doing?
     
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  19. CitizenSnips

    CitizenSnips hmm.

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    wrs are more important.

    Ask the colts. I don't want to see Tanny take the shots Luck did last year, but they made the playoffs despite some poor T's.
     
  20. mommabilly

    mommabilly No riders allowed

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    Luck has a pocket presence that is leap years ahead of Tannehill
     
  21. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Ryan Tannehill was statistically one of the best players under pressure last year while Luck was one of the worst, but he's no :kiss:~*Andrew Luck*~:kiss:
     
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  22. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm not sure that's the lesson from Smiley and Grove, though. Their problem was injuries. They both played pretty well when they were healthy.
     
  23. mommabilly

    mommabilly No riders allowed

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    Stats are stats true but Andrew Luck and Ryan Tannehill are miles apart ability wise. Luck threw for 4300 yards and 23 TDs under all the pressure. Luck can not only take a hit and still make the play, his pocket presence was great for a rookie. Many times I watched him one step either way and avoid the sack. Tannehill did avoid it sometimes but his decision making skills lat year prevented him from doing something with the ball instead of just getting sacked. Tannehill is not bad, not by any means but again, he certainly is not in the same class as Andrew Luck, not at all IMO. Luck puts that ball downfield with little effort, I have yet to see Tannehill do that. Many many times receivers had to stop or come back for the ball. Would have liked to see him use the middle of the field more but that was not his fault, Mike Sherman believes the middle of the field is some kind of evil thing to use. LOL
     
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  24. mommabilly

    mommabilly No riders allowed

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    Thats true. Injuries do take their toll, all one has to do is look at Jake Long to see that. Berger seemed to do well at Minnesota. I do not think Tony and Gugs were the best communcators on the planet.
     
  25. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Awesome.

    You sir, are on your A game today.
     
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  26. shouright

    shouright Banned

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    The biggest difference between Luck and Tannehill at this point, and it's supported by statistics, is that Luck is far better at making plays in the clutch. I suspect that's because of a combination of greater ability and greater experience at the position. That was a big reason the Colts were 11-5 despite Luck's fairly pedestrian QB rating: he played better in the clutch than he did typically, and won a good number of games for them that way.
     
  27. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    When under pressure, where should the QB throw the ball to get a positive play? Before you answer that, what if the WRs, RBs & TEs are covered or blocking?
     
  28. mommabilly

    mommabilly No riders allowed

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    Towards the end of the season Ryan , if all were covered, was smart in t hrowing it away. Before that he just went down with the ship like Henne did oh so many times. Do not get me wrong, IMO, Tannehill is better then Henne on all accounts and will most likely be even better this year. IMO Luck is the better QB . To get back to the original thought outside of stats and such, we need a Right side to this offensive line. RG and RT
     
  29. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    When did that happen at an alarming rate? Not arguing, but I don't remember.
     
  30. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I don't agree.
     
  31. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I remember when Miami signed him. I'd just been on my first forum for a short time. Few knew anything about him, so it was originally met with a lot of comments about camp fodder, etc. I posted that people should look at his background a little and he could be nice surprise. He honestly did work out fine for the time he remained healthy. He finally quit playing when his body, mainly his back, wouldn't allow him to continue. I don't recall anyone ever saying he was a stud though. You could definitely win though with an OL of 5 healthy Mark Dixon clones.
     
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  32. rtl1334

    rtl1334 New Member

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    I think we saw a bit of a negative shift with Tannehill after his knee injury. I'm amazed so few people here bring that up as a factor. That's why I don't think it was a surprise that his numbers went up greatly in the latter part of the year (you know...when he's healthy again).

    As well, after the Indy game, it appeared as if the entire league lost all respect for our receiving corps and decided to essentially play a redzone defence the entire field.

    As for the o-line, I don't think you can discount it's value to a young QB. I'd have no problem if the team moved up for Johnson or stayed and took Cooper.
     
  33. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    The thing to me is, even if we do have to add a corner or two, and a RT and possibly RG in the draft, it is not necessary to do it in the 1st. IMO, the 1st rounder should be the BPA regardless of position. This draft looks deep at corner and OL, and not much difference in quality from about pick 20 till the end of the 2nd round or so.
     
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  34. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    I still think they need more draft flexibility. We will see, of course. But, the fewer positions they have to fill in the draft the better they will be able to freely pursue the bpa and to double up in the first 3-4 rounds.
     
  35. mroz

    mroz Fix the OL Club Member

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    that and the fact the Colts had a better over all team…. just saying! lol
     
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  36. mommabilly

    mommabilly No riders allowed

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    I would like a Long back on this team. Kyle Long from Oregon. Big, athletic and gooood. Can't forget about his blood lines either. If we do not take him I will bet the Rams take him. Then they would have C.Long, J.Long and K.Long. Thats not right :)

    Kyle Long is a good player and comes from a fast paced offense and would be a great RG on this football team. Sign Winston and lets let Martin work at LT and we just may have a goood offensive line. I think we will.
     
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  37. mommabilly

    mommabilly No riders allowed

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    First half of the season and no, not at an alarming rate. Our problem was both tackles, Jake included. Martin was a rook with his hands full and his eyes the size of softballs and Jake , well, Jake was fighting for his life most games.

    When one of the guards went out to help they sent people right up that hole. Really guess being a rookie Tannehill had to freak out on occasion. Then as someone mentioned when he got dinged up the knee he was a little apprehensive for a few games.
     
  38. pocoloco

    pocoloco I'm your huckleberry Club Member

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    I really hope the plan isn't to bookend the line with a 2nd year guy and a rookie. Or hoping that John Jerry magically stays away from jelly donuts.
     
  39. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    So lemme get this straight...not only are you content with rolling with rookies on the right side of the line, but you also expect us to find both these guys in the middle rounds?

    if 3/5 of our OL is Martin and 2 rookies Ireland drafted outside of the 1st round that is a recipe for disaster lol.
     
  40. P h i N s A N i T y

    P h i N s A N i T y My Porpoise in Life

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    we're rebuilding it, as well as most the rest of the roster..... thought this was clear as day. :confused2:

    Your acting like game 1 is next week. We are in the middle of a huge offseason. You literally throw a fit every time another player signs elsewhere.
     
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