Ok, now I see that Mel Kiper has Watson going in the 1st rd- maybe his athleticism is as good as reported, maybe he is the beast that I thought he looked like at first glance. Anyway, now I'm more than a little interested, given the Jake Long situation and what I would consider a logical move of Jon Martin to LT if Long bolts. http://www.seminoles.com/blog/2013/01/espns-mel-kiper-on-fsu-right-tackle-menelik-watson.html Here are some Watson clips again, there's not much on youtube, at least what I can find. This kid Watson- he grabs my attention even more, he looks like a mobile, athletic destruction machine at RT. Highly interesting as an elite foreign athlete who is new to the game. The reflexes, the hand use, the mobility- just show me more of his footwork. I'm surprised nonetheless that Kiper has him rated as a 1st rd pick- potential vs production, etc. and also becasue I just found about Watson, but that's on me. In my opinion this kid is a very, very interesting athlete- bummer he's already rated so high. I'm very interested in how good his feet are, or aren't- I can't tell from the limited footage. Also, given that he's a RT and Bjoern Werner is a LDE I wonder how they fared against each other in practice- if Watson could hold his own against Woerner, good sign. Curious as to what coaches, teammates, even Werner have to say. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGnMil--PcY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZT1TicBpSmM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-ukruK5tPA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQrzT_tzc5I Seriously, this kid looks like a freaking beast out there. http://www.seminoles.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/watson_menelik00.html http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/fsu/sports/m-footbl/auto_pdf/2012-13/misc_non_event/MW12.pdf Good SI article: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/luke_winn/02/01/Menelik.Watson/index.html You have to love the boxing training and skills, too.
I think he showed against a pure speed guy like Dadi Nicolas of Virginia Tech that he might have some issues with pure speed that make him more of a right tackle than left tackle, but then a lot of the issues I've seen with him in general are minor technique and mental issues. I think he's very powerful, has a great frame, can bury people, generally keeps his head on a swivel and mirrors well, and he's got the mobility to move out and pickup outside blitzers. Like I said in the other thread I have a higher opinion of James Gayle than most, and Menelik shut Gayle down almost completely.
I'm wondering if there's a parallel there between Watson and Coradarelle Patterson. Freakishly good athletes with great size who came from junior colleges and dominated, the biggest draw back to wither player being a lack of a track record at the major college level. As good of an athlete as Patterson is, I'm wondering if Watson is even better. From Draft Stock Report: "Watson's decision to go pro is the most surprising loss for Florida State. The junior from Manchester, England played in just 12 games this season, to bring his career total to 20. Watson, a former boxer and Division I basketball player for Marist College, didn't start playing football until his sophomore season at Saddleback College (Calif.). Watson certainly showed plenty of potential this season, and with a tough upbringing he felt it was best to enter the draft despite the chance his stock could soar after another season in Tallahassee. Perhaps the best illustration of just how valuable Watson was to FSU this season is how it performed without him. Watson didn't start against N.C. State or Wake Forrest as he dealt with an ankle injury. In those two games FSU allowed seven sacks. Watson isn't on a lot of mock draft radars just yet, but NFLDraftScout.net has him rated as the 10th-best tackle and a second to third round pick. Watson was told by the NFL Draft Committee that he received a second-round grade when he made the decision to forgo his senior year. Strengths: Watson is freakishly-athletic, and not just for someone his size. The 6-foot-6, 320-pound tackle has been clocked in the 4.7 range in the 40-yard dash. He won the starting right tackle job, despite not having the advantage of spring practice like the rest of the candidates. With his frame and strength Watson is the ideal NFL tackle. Weaknesses: Watson is still an extremely raw player. As we mentioned earlier he played in just eight junior college games before starting 12 games for Florida State this season. With not a lot of film for teams to look at it, Watson's stock could dip some despite his extreme athleticism." http://floridastate.rivals.com/barr...t=content.asp&cid=1459879&fid=&tid=&mid=&rid= For all the hype that Ansah as gotten as a foreign player with limited exposure to football, I'm thinking that Watson is the better NFL prospect. I'd really like to see more film of him, though. It's easy to get hyped up over a few youtube clips, but this kid has the look of the real deal. I can see him engulfing DEs and OLBs at the NFL level.
Here's some footage of Watson playing basketball. It leaves me thinking as it was with watching Mike Williams from Syracuse ball a few years ago, dude's an athlete. Combine that size and power with top notch basketball foot/eye coordination and boxing hand/ eye coordination and you might have yourself an elite NFL RT. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPQ18mmSj_k This cat has quick hands, still love the speed and strength of his paw on this play: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-ukruK5tPA
You mentioned his heavy hands in another thread- from what little I've seen, very true. He reminds me in that regard of Donald Thomas-great hand punch, drives his weight right into DL and he just plays heavy. Watson seems to use good leverage, can turn his hips to really drive back DL and LBs. This guy just looks flat out impressive, I'd like to see a bunch more film of him. Initial impression is a better prospect coming out than Gosder Cherilus.
He looks a beast, would love to have him starting at RT next season. He's from south of the border, but I still think it would be pretty cool to have a UK-born and bred player on the Dolphins roster.
I've been looking for more film- good drive blocking at :37, then at :47 a subtle but good look at some foot quickness. He pivots and just stonewalls #17 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ag5wLMJ65xU My initial impression was that the dude is a beast with excellent size and power. Good chance that he has good feet as well, given the basketball and boxing backgrounds. Well, nothing that I've seen has deterred from this- beastly player with excellent athleticism and very good feet. I don't mean to get ahead of myself, but I look at this guy and I see everything necessary to be a Pro Bowler at RT. Everywhere I look on this tape he's in the right position, getting the job done. Nice switch to the blitzing OLB at :58, picks him up and rides him outside. #52 doesn't have a chance. 1:18- that double pancake, 'nuff said. Heavy, heavy hands on this kid, a thumper. Gets his weight into it, moves bodies. This guy has quickly become one of my favorite players in the draft. Second level at 1:30, next play shows his very good kickslide. I wouldn't put it past Watson to play LT, but as a RT- love it. If Jake Long is to bolt and Jonathan Martin (gulp) goes to LT, I'd love to get Menelick Watson- what a great prospect, and he should only get better as he's so new to the game. At RT I really don't see any weaknesses- elite combo of strength and athleticism. He doesn't have the feet of D'Brickashaw (thank you, Thorn Birds) Ferguson, but they are plenty good, efficient movement laterally and vertically, very good kick slide. Again, in my humble opinion, we could be looking at an elite NFL RT here. Time will tell.
Analysis: It was a bit of a surprise seeing the high potential Menelik Watson declare early for the NFL draft...but given that Taylor Lewan and Jake Matthews were returning to school, it probably felt like an opportune moment. Watson is the epitome of athleticism in an offensive tackle. Possessing rare movement skills, the "Dancing Bear" skills, as well as the strength and conditioning to possibly be a dominant run blocker in the NFL, Watson is going to be a hot commodity as a developmental offensive lineman at the next level. Still learning the game, he projects at Right Tackle early in the NFL, most likely in a Zone Blocking Scheme, but with added bulk and work he could become a tackle or guard in a Power Blocking Scheme if he displays the toughness to do so. What is evident are his pass pro skills which are above average, possibly good enough to man the blind side, but given his experience in Tallahassee at Right Tackle he'll have his work cut out for himself upgrading while in the NFL. Projected a Day 2 pick, possibly an early Day 3 pick. Look for a pickup somewhere in the No. 70-to No. 110 range. http://oaklandraidersdraftwatch.blogspot.com/2013/01/prospect-profile-ot-menelik-watson.html
Here's some more film, I pulled it up to watch Elam and ended up watching more of Watson. Is there a better 2nd level OT in the draft this year? A faster one? One that is much more stout at the LOS? Much quicker? He's always looking to hit a 2nd guy if he can, I love that- see here at 6:30 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8AYhBZOLJk It would be great to get him in the 2nd round, but I don't think he'll be there, especially is he runs a sub 4.8 40 at the combine. One of the best athletes in the draft imo, fantastic prospect, a prototype RT, if not a LT. ps #54 looks mighty interesting, I know nothing about him but look at the roll out at 7:10 and this guy is listed at 6-4 328- Tre' Jackson.
Good thread Jim, you made good points all around. Does anyone know how much cut blocking the right tackle does in a scheme like ours..or just the zone scheme in general? If Jon Martin is a high 2nd round pick, this kids a first..either that or this draft is getting pretty damn deep.. I don't see us going oline in the first, but if we could resign Jake, move Martin to guard, and Watson fell to 2a, along with Pouncey, it's a nice thought.
Lots to learn and I do mean lots. The fire burns right through that ugly Seminole red (da u)- straight up beast. Moves with always intention to kill but technique doesn't always allow him to deliver. If its a simple matter of snaps, utter monster. If it ends at fire, a monstrous tease.
In a short period of time I've seen enough film of Watson to recognize his awareness and quick reactions, which I think are fantastic. And seeing that again and again leads me to believe that he'll do just fine- I'm watching plays that aren't all part of a highlight compilation, and his head is on a swivel and he has cat quick reflexes, making a 2nd hit at the LOS coming from a different direction or getting to the 2nd level in a hurry. I think that he brings some outstanding qualities to the OT position naturally, like Ansah does to DE, plus the basketball and boxing training have made him a far superior athlete as compared to other RTs, including great hand/eye anf foot/eye coordination. He's on a different level athletically from the other RTs out there- from what I've read he can run a 4.7 40 as well. Watson is a standout imo, whether as a driving force in the running game, a RT to neutralize pass rushing DEs and OLBs, or as a phenominal 6-6 320- lb athlete that is going to surprise you going above and beyond what you'd expect in terms of quickness and 2nd level blocking. One of my very favorite players in this draft, period.
I'm purposefully looking for Watson to get beat on an edge rush, haven't seen it yet. UF tape- he more than holds his own against Shariff Floyd and others- Vs Floyd nice pancake at 7:28 and stonewall at 2:30. Somewhere in those 7 minutes he has Floyd lined up across from him, correctly picks up the DE as Floyd stunts inside. Great power player, he moves out Floyd and others multiple times. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiSY8TEzJV4 If I were to nitpick one thing I would say that Watson could be on his toes more, he looks a bit flat footed. Very good feet movement though, he can move for a huge guy, but ideally you want to see more D'Brickashaw Ferguson as per the feet. But still, I haven't seen him get beat to the outside yet, and he's one heck of a power player. First rounder. I pulled up the tape to see Floyd- very good player, reminds me of Randy Starks- big, powerful and fast/quick. I'd rather keep Starks where he is and look elsewhere- we need perimeter playmakers imo, not DTs. I'd rather that and resign Jake Long on the OL if he doesn;t try to break the bank- maintain, add to the status quo, not rip down and build again. Perimeter, speed, playmakers. 2:43 look at Elam directing traffic- that's a football player.
There's a play against Florida where h e blocks Matt Elam on a sweep and runs him about forty yards down the field. It's hilarious.
Yeah, it's the first play of this clip, I mentioned it in the original post of the Matt Elam thread: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8AYhBZOLJk I pulled up the clip to watch Elam, couldn't help but watch Watson again. Best 2nd level blocking RT I've ever seen, to the best of my recollection, and a straight up power beast on the line- he gave Shariff Floyd a what for more than once in that game. BTW check out 7:45 of the clip- nice dive to take out the DE. What intrigues me is that Watson not only excels at the rudimantary aspects of OT play- pass pro and drive blocking- but he also does the smaller stuff well - 2nd level blocking, awareness, picking up a 2nd blocker at the LOS and even that dive block. Here's that boxing quick hands play: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-ukruK5tPA And the pancake: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGnMil--PcY Those two skill sets combined are pretty impressive imo- power and speed galore.
Good article: "The first practice at Florida State last summer was on Aug. 8. That was also the day Trickett decided Menelik would start the Seminoles' first game less than a month later. It was silly to wait. Menelik had already learned the formations and the plays and physically there was no reason to keep him off the field. "He can do things with a 300-pound body that no one can do at that spot," Trickett says. How good had Menelik become? In 12 games at Florida State, he gave up just one sack. "He's a top five talent in the draft," Trickett says. "He's not going to be picked in the top five because he just hasn't played enough. If this kid had played high school ball and then two or three years of college it wouldn't be a contest." note: very good article with lots of info, plus there's video of Sharif Floyd's pro day at the bottom http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--n...l-before-finding--natural--fit-015845154.html
I had him in he first round over a week ago, while watching tape on Werner and tank and Rhodes I stumbled across a bunch of general Seminoles tape and was intrigued by him
My concerns: He wasn't nearly as fast or athletic looking running at the combine as I expected, a true surprise to me. Then again, he's an OT not a WR. In game film I wish that I saw him a bit more on his toes, looks flat footed out there. He had a very bad ankle injury in his youth from what I read in that article I posted this morning, I have to wonder if that might prove to be an issue somewhere down the line. He's a bit older, 25 I think. Other than that, I love him as a prospect. Dedicated, head on right, studious, huge, extremely athletic, powerful, quick, the works. plus he's an instinctive football player, described a s a natural. I really would have preferred that Jake Long stayed, but now with martin probably going to his natural fit at LT I'd probably be all over Watson at 2a if he's available, and that's questionable. He's just a tremendous and dedicated athlete who seems to be a natural at the position. One heck of a player.
I like watching players in tapes that aren't made as their highlight reels. I watched the youtube clips of Brandon McGee, Matt Elam, Sharif Floyd and others and there was Watson just stuffing people from his RT position. I watched quite a bit of film and I never saw him get beat. He dominated at his prime directive- beating opposing DEs in the running and passing situations. And to me that carries a lot more weight than a guy like Ansah, who got consistently stonewalled at the LOS and then peeled off to make plays down the LOS- it's a nice side dish but not the main course. Watson is the real deal imo, and I would be thrilled to have him step in as the Dolphins' RT this year.
He definitely didn't show up at the combine and that's something I'm banking on. I believe that this has a lot to do with him only having had one year of OL experience. Most of the guys at the combine have been going to workout and technique camps like that since highschool or younger that had them better prepared. If were going to go into this season with a questionable o line I would love to have a guy with the type of ceiling menelik has on it.
According to the article I posted this morning in this thread he was training sadistically hard for the combine. And whether he did or not, I expected him to run much better, not only faster but more athletically. I was expecting him to look much more like Lane Johnson running than Chance Warmack, and that wasn't the case. He was expected to run around a 4.7-4.8 and ran somewhere around 5.25- and he just didn't look nearly as good as I expected running. Neither did Luke Joeckel or Bjoern Werner for that matter. But at the end of the day those are secondary issues. Watson plays great, is one of the best players I've seen this year and I'd love to get him in the 2nd round, but I doubt that he will be available to us then.
I think he's being properly valued. When I broke down the OT position a while ago it became clear to me that there were 3 guys to absolutely love in Lane Johnson, Luke Joeckel and Eric Fisher...and then 3 guys in the next tier that can play at the next level. They are Terron Armstead, Menelik Watson and Xavier Nixon. The latter of the three may continue to go unrecognized but I'm willing to bet on him. I still haven't really got my arms around D.J. Fluker yet.
Didn't test well at the Combine. In spite of that he does seem to have some short area athleticism on video. I really thought that Elam tape was helpful. I always like to watch players against top level talent (Ideally, that means watching a player against Alabama ) to get a better idea of how he will do in the pros. I thought Watson had some good plays and some other plays where he was a bit lost. I also thought it was telling at times that he needed help with a double team in pass pro (and that FSU felt the need to scheme that direction - esp. at RT). I can't imagine him going in the 1st - but he is raw/a project so middle-late 2nd (3rd) looks better to me. For Miami, however, he doesn't look like a guy who can come in next year and take over the LT spot (as with one of the big 3 LT's in this draft). But, if drafting for the future - he could be a really good RT or possibly LT 1-2 years down the road. He's 24, btw (B. Dec. 22, 1988). A bit old but I think O-linemen can last.
It wouldn't surprise me if Menelik didn't even practice for the Combine. That's his biggest impediment, himself.
First I'd heard of that, any link or is that just your opinion on what you've heard? Not doubting at all btw, just wanting to know where it came from. I like him from what I've seen on film, and it appears he was a very fast learner at FSU, but the combine performance was a bit worrying, and a lack of motivation to be a better football player would be even more of a worry.
Did you read the article that I rebooted this thread with this morning? Apparently he works out like a maniac and has a tremendous work ethic and level of dedication, I have no idea what you base that statement on. "The natural one is running on a brilliant late winter morning. This is in Florida, at the IMG Academy where Menelik Watson has been preparing for the draft along with a cluster of better-known prospects like Geno Smith, Matt Barkley and Manti Te'o. He is 24 years old and more than 300 pounds now, his forearms huge from months of lifting weights. His thick legs pump as he churns across a small turf field. He does not run like an offensive lineman. Over the next two hours, he will stretch and jump then drop to the field and leap back up. Then he will retreat to a weight room and push iron bars into the air. He will do all of this without complaint. In fact he will smile for he smells a life he once struggled to imagine. A life so good, so exciting, so filled with hope that he would run sprints and lift weights all day if it would get him there faster. Everywhere he has been in the U.S. he has left a line of coaches and teammates smitten with his desire and amazed by his determination." http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nfl--n...l-before-finding--natural--fit-015845154.html
Combine aside, he's one heck of an athlete, great short area quicks and hand/eye foot/eye coordination that he used in basketball and boxing. Excellent reflexes. He was expected to run like Terron Armstead and Lane Johnson, rumor was maybe sub 4.7 To this day I haven;t been able to figure out what happened there, but it wasn't a matter of just a bad start or something like that, he just didn;t look smooth or fast running- big disappointment there. I still love him as a prospect, but that combine showing and what I perceive to be some flat footedness concerns me.
