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Salguero: Miami's Need at CB

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by ckparrothead, Mar 26, 2013.

  1. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Have to hand this one to Armando. He nailed this on the head.

    http://miamiherald.typepad.com/dolp...ign-brent-grimes-because-cb-is-a-problem.html

     
  2. unifiedtheory

    unifiedtheory Sub Pending Luxury Box

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    Yah, Joe pretty much told us what we already knew. We have no corners, in a passing league, in a division with Tom Brady.
     
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  3. WhiteIbanez

    WhiteIbanez Megamediocremaniacal

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    I was thinking the very same thing as the person who commented below the article.

    How did drafting two corners not work ? They both are still starters in this league ! Miami changed coaches and schemes, players then don't fit any longer. But to say it wasn't a good draft is stupid. Miami will be fine drafting corners, why sign Grimes and his blown achilies ? You start off the article talking about Marshall being hurt and then say go sign a guy with a worse injury ? Or do you think blown achillies is good for a corner ?

     
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  4. pocoloco

    pocoloco I'm your huckleberry Club Member

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    Hey. What about Tavon Austin?


    Tavon.



    Austin.
     
  5. Phinfanjt

    Phinfanjt New Member

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    Who's even left on the market? Grimes, Porter....? Both are coming off of injuries and there's no guarantee either will be 100%. Grimes coming off of an achilles injury may be the healthier of the two.

    Even if Miami signs a vet they're still going to need to come out of the draft with 2 corners. They may need to spend 2 of their top 5 on them. When Dimitri (I don't want to play and put out bad tape) Patterson is your best corner you're in trouble.
     
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  6. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    why would we need corners? we have Marshall and Patterson dude!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
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  7. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The Dolphins should make a move at corner-back, but a failure to do so would not result in a non-viable unit.

    They can put out an acceptable performance with the guys they have now. It would not be a strength, but it almost certainly would not be a crippling weakness, and in order to put it in that context you have to take a grossly over-inflated view of Sean Smith's merits.
     
  8. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    The question though is how long did it take to work? The Dolphins started both guys in 2009 and they were liabilities. They improved as the years went on but counting on them too much was a big mistake. The defense went from respectable in 2008 (9th in points) to bad in 2009 (25th in points).
     
  9. Rilo

    Rilo New Member

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    Antoine Winfield still hasnt decided on a team yet i would love it when he signs with us. If we do not get him i am okay with doubling down in the draft but i think it means we dont take a TE until the third round.
     
  10. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Going into the season with Marshall, Patterson, and Nolan Carroll isn't a disaster in the right context.
     
  11. Coral Reefer

    Coral Reefer Premium Member

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    Back in Miami
    They wanted a pass rusher as well and didn't deliver.

    At this point were in trouble on the pass defense side.
    I think the complete lack of proven CB talent at this point outweighs the need for a situational pass rusher FA.
    That said, the vet corner market has slim pickens at this time.
     
  12. Coral Reefer

    Coral Reefer Premium Member

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    The problem here is not drafting CB's.
    The problem is counting on a drafted rookies to fill those spots immediately.
    We all know the draft is a crap shoot.
    They got rid of 2 vet CB's last year.
    I didn't at all disagree with them getting rid of them either.
    You need to bring in at least one proven Vet to fill a hole like that though.
    You can't just count on draft picks stepping in and holding down the spots.
     
  13. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You made the argument that Philbin didn't though, right?

    That said, nobody is saying it's a disaster. IT's questionable, for sure. Does it allow you the flexibility to go BPA throughout the draft?
     
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  14. Ohio Fanatic

    Ohio Fanatic Twuaddle or bust Club Member

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    Like Disgustipate said, we can get by.
    - We have a very good front 7
    - We have a very good safety + average 2nd safety

    We do need CBs, but don't need to overpay for Grimes if he's not a good fit and not healthy. If he is a good fit and healthy, then by all means pay the guy.
    but, I see no problem with drafting 2 CBs with our first four picks. While we may contend for a playoff spot this year, we are not competing for a superbowl, so drafting a couple of CBs and starting them, and watching their growing pains, may payoff next year.
     
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  15. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Hard to say at this point. There is still money left to spend. Miami's defense last year was pretty good without good CB play.

    I'm also a lot higher on Marshall than most here, especially if they plan on playing more quarters coverage.
     
  16. Fineas

    Fineas Club Member Luxury Box

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    I don't think the sky is falling, but I do find the approach they are taking with the CB position to be puzzling. There was a lot of talent available at CB in FA and at fairly reasonable prices and we had plenty of cap space available to get a few of them. I agree with those that say CB is not the premium position ti may have been in the past and that is probbaly even more true if we are going to be playing mostly zone, but it's still strange that we have done virtually nothing at CB in terms of bringing guys in. It kinda makes me think we have something up our sleeve, but I have no idea what that could be. Can't believe it is Revis. We are supposedly still in the mix for Grimes, but I don't get the sense that we are being very aggressive about that.
     
  17. JMORGAN6977

    JMORGAN6977 New Member

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    BIG PICTURE TIME!!!!

    When a defense relies on a zone coverage, you need to consider the entire unit. Why are we stuck on a frickin #1 or #2 corner. Lets just call them the 4-5 db's and the front 7-6 depending on the formation and personnel. If you want to get constructive and actually make sense why don't you compare our current personnel to another team who runs a zone effectively and then ***** about what we do or dont have. Keep in mind the front 7 has just as much to do with the effectiveness of the zone in its entirety as the 4 db's.

    So again, why are we talking about needing corners when in all respects a stud pass rusher and an average at best corner = a stud corner and average at best pass rusher. Its all relative and I believe the body of work, the system being put together will have the right pieces.

    What it comes down to is execution and understanding. Philbin needs smart, fast, hard working, defensive backs who will listen and buy in so they can perform there assignment 100%. We do not need stars in the secondary period.
     
  18. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Does it promote your ability to go BPA? No.

    But it doesn't really prevent it or make it unwise, either.
     
  19. WhiteIbanez

    WhiteIbanez Megamediocremaniacal

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    So with that logic we should never draft a CB again? Injury vets are the way to go. Makes no sense.
    To me this article is a whiny attempt to write something bad about the Dolphins because there isn't much else to bash about.
    It's an impatient garbage article intended to stir up the fanbase.
    Mando should be charged for attempting to induce panic instead of be rewarded for this drivel.
     
  20. WhiteIbanez

    WhiteIbanez Megamediocremaniacal

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    Last I heard we were still interested in Grimes.:wink2:
     
  21. CaribPhin

    CaribPhin Guest

    I'm more hopeful about R. J. Stanford than Marshall or Carroll. Marshall because of salary concerns. If we could field a front line like Cincinnati that was great at pass rush interior and exterior, I'm not that perturbed. But, if we're going into next season with Wake as the only proven pass rusher and relying on the blitz (a la the Jets, sans Cromartie and Revis) for pressure, I'm just not comfortable. We fielded a secondary with Sean Smith that could do absolutely nothing in key moments without pass rush. The Cardinals and Colts games are what I see more of if we don't at least shore up the pass rush.
     
  22. RickyBobby

    RickyBobby VIP DIY

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    Maybe he didn't mention Patterson or Marshall because he is confident in those 2 and they aren't a concern
     
  23. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I think it's certainly got the potential to be a disaster. Richard Marshall is coming off major back surgery and was not very good on the outside even when healthy.

    Dimitri Patterson has generally been a disaster when asked to play on the outside in his career, not to mention the serious attitude issues which got him cut by Cleveland LESS than a year into a fresh 3 year deal in which they paid him $3.3 million up front in the form of signing bonus and $6.0 million in total guaranteed money (not sure if Miami is on the hook for any of that).

    And Nolan Carroll even fell out of favor with this very coaching staff. The staff clearly began reducing his snaps after a disastrous outing against the Bills in Week 11. He spent the next 4 games giving up almost half his snaps to R.J. Stanford.

    What NFL team would be starting a worse trio of corners?
     
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  24. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Where in anything I said did I state or even imply this?

    The most obvious extension of logic from the argument I've been making is that you should draft corners and develop them but not put pressure to start them before they are ready. Vontae Davis and Sean Smith weren't ready in 2009. Hell it was Sean Smith's 3rd year even playing the position. In his whole life.
     
  25. PhinsRDbest

    PhinsRDbest Transform and Transcend

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    the next dimension
    “We have 4s, 5s and 6s. We need 3s, 2s, and 1s”.
     
  26. PhinsRDbest

    PhinsRDbest Transform and Transcend

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    the next dimension
    Unless I'm mistaken, Patterson has had problems staying healthy too. I smell disaster.
     
  27. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    That's what this reminds me so much of. I find it funny.

    You could almost just madlib these arguments about why the Dolphins don't need corners because of their system, and just map the position and names back onto posts from a year ago about how Joe Philbin's system doesn't require a number one receiver and we should be fine at the position.

    Fast forward a year, and the Dolphins are spending $100 million in new contracts on the WR position, with all kinds of articles being writtena about how Jeff Ireland realizes his mistake in not investing in that position and he's going to make it right. Oops.
     
  28. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    What context is that? Every QB better than Ryan Tannehill suddenly dropping dead?
     
  29. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    He didn't even make it through 2 games with Miami. And you're right he was kind of a on-again, off-again injury case in Cleveland. In fact, so I heard, one of the last straws with him in Cleveland was him telling them he didn't want to play unless he was fully 100% because he didn't want to put out any bad tape.

    Yeah. We should TOTALLY keep this guy at $5.0 million a year instead of signing a Keenan Lewis for $5.1 million per year. Good call!
     
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  30. PhinsRDbest

    PhinsRDbest Transform and Transcend

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    the next dimension
    Better start scouting corners for next year, smh. They need to sign Sam Shields.
     
  31. 54Fins

    54Fins "In Gase we trust"

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    over there
    The acorns will fall when rosters start slimming down before the season starts.
    Thought we had a very good free agency so far.Plus with the 11 picks,we still have lots of moves to make.
    I'm sure no one in the FO forgot we need a pass rusher to compliment Wake,either.
     
  32. PhinsRDbest

    PhinsRDbest Transform and Transcend

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    the next dimension
    Especially when it cost $0 to cut him, dumb move.
     
  33. UCF FINatic

    UCF FINatic The Miami Dolphins select

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    To be honest, none of the CBs in this class impress me after Dee Milliner. I think Rhodes is too physical a lot of the time and will be called for a lot of penalties in the NFL, also I am not sure how bright the kid is. I liked Banks a lot before I saw his 40 time. Haven't seen enough of Trufant, but from what I have seen it did not warrant the 14th overall pick. Amerson concerns me a lot too. Hell I am not even really sold on Vaccaro.

    It's hard to upgrade the secondary in a draft like this. Last years draft was much, much better in terms of CB.
     
  34. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    I literally just laughed for like 5 minutes straight.

    I'll put it to you like this. I was one of Ireland's harshest critics for going into the 2012 season with that group of WR's...well that receiving group would actually be a stronger unit than this sad state of CBs.
     
  35. Vendigo

    Vendigo German Gigolo Club Member

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    Can we please stop that "acorn" talk? I realize I'm probably barking up a perfectly innocent tree, but seriously, I can't stand that euphemism anymore. There's no acorns in the NFL, there's just a lot of scrubs who get cut for a perfectly good reason and a little luck when you happen to be the one place the scrub actually fits into. If I had a penny for every acorn we've found ... :lol:
     
  36. Vendigo

    Vendigo German Gigolo Club Member

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    None. We currently have the worst CB depth in the entire league. I'm not sure I can fault Ireland for that right now but if we don't come out of this (in my opinion) CB deep but otherwise mostly poor class without at least one decent starting CB, I'll be worried.
     
  37. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    A zone corner who produces no turnovers out of a defense whose corners generally have little success elsewhere?

    A good call indeed.
     
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  38. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Versus a slot corner who has performed poorly with consistency every time he's asked to start and/or play outside and whose attitude and injury issues got him booted by the team that had only just given him a 3 year deal with $6 million guaranteed less than a year prior.

    Yeah. Good call indeed.

    If I could trust that from a personnel standpoint they weren't going to force him to do things he's proven to be pretty bad at over the years, I might consider keeping him. He's a gifted slot corner. But that's all he is, and all he ever has been. Keenan Lewis is more than that.
     
  39. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You don't really have to compare them. One is a player who fills a specific role, and the other doesn't really fill any role in this defense.

    If you've got to compare them for some reason, Patterson is a role player whom you can jettison with no ramifications when you find a cornerback who fits the defense, and there's no long term loss. If you want to keep him through this year because you're going to use him to his talents, you're not hurting for the cap space anyway. Matching what Keenan got for New Orleans is a dramatically worse idea. You're better off doing nothing than that.
     
  40. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

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    funny thing is had we given him that same deal I highly doubt you would have criticized Ireland for that move. In fact I'd say it's more likely you would have labeled it a good decision.
     

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