1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

One Mock Scenario to Play Around With

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by ckparrothead, Mar 30, 2013.

  1. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    79,599
    159,162
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    This is just one scenario that focuses on making the pieces all fit together well in a way that gives the Dolphins the best chance possible to win in 2013 given the opportunities still available to them. The emphasis is on how well the different options all fit together with one another, not necessarily whether they are the absolute best moves possible.

    Remaining Free Agency

    1. Sign RT Eric Winston for a short term contract. He may not like it but I think he'll have to accept it. There's a reason two teams cut him within 12 months, both times with him having multiple years remaining on his contract. Chance are he's going to have to accept even less than $5 million a year. I don't think he's going to be a special right tackle but he's a good short term band-aid at the position. I don't like giving Jon Martin the start at left tackle but there are ways to buy yourself insurance against him in the Draft.

    2. Pay for the move by cutting CB Dimitri Patterson. Patterson is purely a slot corner who plays poorly when asked to play on the outside. On top of that, he's an attitude/injury problem. The Eagles let him leave without even trying to keep him, and as soon as Joe Banner joined the Browns he cut Patterson in-season less than a year into a 3 year deal in which he was given $6 million guaranteed. Something smells BAD about this guy. First thing he did in Miami is get hurt after only one game. There's a rumor going around that he told the coaches in Cleveland he wouldn't play for them unless he was in tip top shape healthwise because he didn't want to put out bad tape. Cutting him saves $4.5 million a year and that's no chump change.

    3. Use your remaining cap space to sign CB Sam Shields to an offer sheet. You're going to have to inflate the first year cap figure to a number that the Green Bay Packers can't or won't match. The Packers have one of the hottest young corners in the NFL in Casey Hayward, in addition to Traemon Williams and a guy they think very highly of in Davon House. There is some chance they'll refuse to match the offer even if you don't necessarily inflate the first year figure to something ludicrous like $15 million. The Dolphins have a rapport with Sam Shields' agent Drew Rosenhaus and I believe Drew would love nothing more than to get his client back to Miami. Shields is 25 years old and has 13 interceptions in his first 3 years in the NFL. He was very new to the position at The U and sometimes it showed, but even so I was a big proponent of drafting him with a late round pick back then because he showed remarkable potential. He can run all day long and there isn't a receiver in the game that can consistently beat him deep. He can close on anyone vertically, even if they open up a little bit of distance. He showed this in the playoffs against the 49ers. He was one of the few guys on that defense that actually played well in that game. He gave the Packers a score by closing like lightning on Kaepernick's intended target off the scramble, and then ran the interception 50+ yards to pay dirt. He is not just lightning fast, he's also extremely QUICK, agile and explosive. And he has good length in his arms and can use his hands well. He's used to playing zone as well as man and plays well in both styles. The score he gave up against Michael Crabtree in the 49ers game was actually a bit of remarkable coverage, but a great throw can always beat great coverage and that was an absolute pinpoint throw in combination with a savvy move by Crabtree using his back hand to stiff arm Shields in the chest and maintain just barely enough separation, then secure a catch that Shields challenged VERY well. Shields seems to turn up his level of play in the playoffs. PFF has grades of +3.6 and +2.2 for his two playoff games in 2012, +0.4 for his one playoff game in 2011, and even as a rookie in the four playoff games he played in PFF gave him a cumulative +0.7. He snagged 2 interceptions in the Conference Championship Game against the Bears in his rookie year. He snagged 2 more interceptions in the 2 playoff games in 2012. He's young, knows how to turn it up during the most important games, can stay with anyone deep, versatile, smart and he can pick off passes. There's no catch here, IMO. I think you pull the trigger. His playoff coverage over a total of 7 games is 19 of 38 for 248 yards, 2 TDs and 4 INTs with 5 PDs...total of 226 coverage snaps. That's high caliber football at the highest level.


    The Draft

    #012 - WR Tavon Austin, West Virginia
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3_UNFZHSQU
    This is by no means meant as a series of moves that I believe the Miami Dolphins are going to pull off. This is a series of moves that fit together purely from MY vantage point that would make the best of the rest of the off season. And it's only one way to go about things, too. This is not even necessarily the very best prescription. But it's a coherent one. I believe the Dolphins introduced tremendous risk by signing Mike Wallace. Joe Philbin has in the past expressed heavy concern about the concept of having a #1 wide receiver. Meanwhile, Mike Wallace was at his best in Pittsburgh when NOT being utilized like a #1 wide receiver. And finally, Ryan Tannehill's most clearly demonstrated comfort zone involves the use of a slot/option route player like Ryan Swope as he did at Texas A&M. He also has demonstrated a comfort zone with the kinds of routes that Brian Hartline excels at, which interestingly enough (and you can believe me on this or not but I truly believe it to be the case) were similar to the routes that Jeff Fuller ran well and caught the football on at Texas A&M. Tannehill has yet to demonstrate a comfort level when asked to lean on a guy with Mike Wallace's particular skill set. Yet we have 12 million reasons everyone will be pressuring him to do so. By drafting Tavon Austin you go from having one $12 million big fish in the pond, to two big fish in the pond. Suddenly, you've balanced things out. There isn't just pressure to get the ball constantly to your 10% salary cap guy. There's also a #12 overall pick to reconcile with and this can help you get back to legitimately just distributing the football naturally. If Tavon Austin outproduces Mike Wallace, so what? He's a #12 overall. He should do well. If Davone Bess or Brian Hartline outproduced Mike Wallace...well, then you've got problems and questions about your $12 million man. Thus, you've balanced out the PRESSURE factor while also giving Ryan Tannehill a crutch that he can utilize to keep him in his comfort zone. And with the ball being distributed to the NFL's new Percy Harvin, Mike Wallace can continue to operate as if he's not really a #1 receiver. Everyone wins. Except 3 years down the road there will be a reckoning, as the Dolphins look at the balance sheet and see what kind of production they're paying $12 million a year for, and they make a tough decision. But that's down the road and you've saved yourself a tremendous amount of pain in the present and future.

    Alternative Pick #042 - CB D.J. Hayden, Houston
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DULLKzandYI
    As I said, I believe the Dolphins would do extremely well for themselves to sign CB Sam Shields of the Green Bay Packers to an offer sheet. However, the outcome of that action is not assured. The Packers could find a way to match it, and Sam Shields is such a good player they would have good reason to do just that. If the Dolphins are unable to pull him away from the Packers, they could use this pick to snag a player I feel may be the 3rd best corner in the entire NFL Draft. Hayden's story is now pretty well known around these parts, as I've been talking about him for months. His injury was life threatening but not detrimental in the longer term. He's already back in shape, running 4.3's in the 40 yard dash just a month or so after being finally allowed to break a sweat again in his workouts, and he'll be a full go for OTAs as well as training camp. The NFL also just removed probably the biggest threat to his healing sternum by making it illegal for ball carriers to lower the crown of their helmet into defenders. Hayden is a play maker. He's a rare breed that can turn around and find the football in man coverage, as well as see the quarterback while feeling the receiver and break on the ball in zone. You need skills to play zone and be more than just some jagoff that lets catches be made on him under the right circumstances, and he's got the skills to be more than that. He's fearless in support tackling. He's not one of those guys that will play patty cake with his hands or do a tuck and roll at absolute necessity (ehem, Blidi Wreh-Wilson). He's an explosive tackler with an amazing record for forcing fumbles. I would take Sam Shields over him because Sam is healthy, young and most importantly PROVEN. But this guy makes a great consolation prize.

    #054 - DE Devin Taylor, South Carolina
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSr5VelnWgU
    This is my favorite defensive end prospect once you get beyond the options in the first round such as Bjoern Werner and Cornellius Carradine. Taylor is 6'7" and 266 lbs, with the frame to add a lot more weight and strength if needed. On that frame, his 266 lbs makes him look almost greyhound-like. He could stand to get heavier and stronger. He's got more than enough athleticism to spare. He ran a 4.65 and had a 35 inch vertical, 10'8" broad jump. He short shuttle at 4.30 seconds was on par with linebackers. His cone drill at 6.89 seconds was on par with wide receivers. On film, he has tremendous MOTOR and gets to plays all around the field using that athletic ability. He regularly played in space and in coverage at South Carolina, and he's even made some plays there (2 career interceptions, both returned for TDs). I think his stock is down because in addition to having his football intelligence questioned, he can look awkward and baby deer-ish at times in how he moves around and plays the game, trying to get around with that extraordinary long frame with those extraordinary long arms and legs. But Jason Pierre-Paul looked much the same to me coming out, and was certainly no smarter from a football intelligence standpoint. Also, inconsistency on a week to week basis has plagued Devin Taylor. When he's on, he is incredible, almost up there with Jadaveon Clowney. But when he's off, he's just kind of there. Part of keeping him "on" will be how you use him. With Clowney there, South Carolina put him on the left side and gave him a lot of responsibilities so that Clowney could use his incredible gifts to rush the passer and make plays. But when Taylor has been asked to play similarly, he's also made plays. If you watch the video I linked of him at the East-West Shrine Game, you'll see him moving back to the right side of the defensive formation and having fewer things to think about, and suddenly he's making plays every way under the sun. He's very observant on the field and has quick reactions. Aside from perhaps Bjoern Werner and William Gholston, I didn't see many defensive players that were more conscious of knocking down passes at the line than Taylor. This is a remarkably athletic, explosive and humongous player with infinite potential not just as a pass rusher but as a complete player. He fits the kind of super lengthy player that Kevin Coyle has experience with in Cincinnati with Carlos Dunlap and Michael Johnson, and he also has the kind of versatility to operate in space that Coyle seems itching to add to the defense opposite Cameron Wake. Early in his career, if you streamline Taylor's duties and role to just going after the passer in the nickel, I believe you'll hit pay dirt. Then later, he can begin adding more elements to his game until he is a complete player.

    #077 - TE Travis Kelce, Cincinnati
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxxDN81kT8A
    One theme that will you notice in my mock scenario is that with the earliest picks in the Draft I want to add the kind of speed, explosiveness and pure talent that can lead to play making in this league, whereas later starting in the 3rd round I begin to focus on adding pure toughness and physicality. That's not to say that Tavon Austin, Sam Shields/D.J. Hayden and Devin Taylor are Ted Ginn-like prospects, all speed and no physicality. Nor is it to say that my other picks are slow but strong dumpy guys. But the emphasis is different. High in the Draft you need to add the ability to make plays. Lower you can afford to grab guys that are just going to add elements of physical and mental toughness. No player exhibits this subtle change in emphasis more than Travis Kelce. On the football field he is absolutely brutal. He is nasty, mean, angry and strong. He is one of the best blockers at the position in the Draft. Yet if you watch how fast he gets up the field along side speedy players like Kenbrell Thompkins, you know that he's not just some strong and slow guy. He can move, and he's fast. Watch the final winning play he makes in the bowl game against Duke. He runs like he's got a rocket up his ***. What I like in his route running is that he's extremely balanced and conscious of his footwork, as well as his shoulder and head fakes. He runs the route the way you've got to run it to get open. And he's got very, very good ball skills. He adjusts to the football and catches it outside of his frame. When you look at his work as a freshman in the wildcat, you can see that he can also do things with the football in his hands from a run after catch perspective. This was a guy that week-in and week-out in 2012 was the focal point of the passing offense, moved around everywhere on the field and used every which way a tight end can be used, and he was extremely consistent. He produced, over and over again. Dustin Keller is only in Miami on a one year contract, so Miami has to think about their future at this position. Kelce would make an excellent complement to Keller, but also an excellent complement to Clay and/or Egnew should one of them pan out.

    #082 - OT Xavier Nixon, Florida
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ar6M8h0no4U
    Xavier Nixon has fantastic potential as a tackle. He fits in with my TOUGHNESS theme in the mid to late rounds in particular because no tackle in this NFL Draft is more battle tested than Xavier Nixon. In 2012 alone he played against Damontre Moore, Sam Montgomery, Lavar Edwards, Jarvis Jones, Cornelius Washington, Jadaveon Clowney, Walker May and Tank Carradine. No other tackle can claim that kind of resume. He's blocked every single one of them. He knows what it's like to face NFL players. He also knows what it's like to be beaten by them a few times, and have to pop back up and come after them for the rest of the game the way he did against the two best of the best, Jadaveon Clowney and Tank Carradine. In those games he was beaten a few times by the players early, but then he settled in and started winning the matchups, even against the fearsome Clowney. He was beaten only a couple of times by Jarvis Jones. He was never beaten by Sam Montgomery, nor was he beaten by Damontre Moore who racked up sacks in that game based on Driskel's leaving the pocket and not by actually beating Nixon. He did extremely well during the televised portions of the Senior Bowl practices, before hurting himself while blocking Malliciah Goodman. Natural knee bender with a really nice lower half. He's a guy that has had to gain a lot of weight over the years at Florida and so he's still growing into his body. It doesn't always come as quickly as it did for Lane Johnson. He's got a good punch and a lot of athletic ability. He's strong. The vision I have for him in Miami in this scenario would be to start out as competition for Jonathan Martin at left tackle, and if that means he is initially a backup then so be it. He provides a nice insurance policy should Martin not pan out as we all hope, and if Martin does then you can try Nixon out as Eric Winston's eventual successor.

    #110 - OG Hugh Thornton, Illinois
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTTsVTNLYBI
    Grabbing a Hugh Thornton in the 4th round very much continues my theme of strength and toughness in the mid- to late-rounds after initially adding speed and play making ability in the early rounds. On tape, Hugh Thornton is an animal. He is huge, wide yet very well built. He's hellishly strong, yet moves explosively and can play a number of positions including left tackle. His balance and the details such as the timing of his punch remind me a lot of Johnathan Martin, except he's got far superior body composition and physical strength. At 320 lbs he ran a 5.09 and with a 4.63 shuttle and 7.45 cone drill. He did 27 bench reps. He has always been very big, very strong and very athletic. He excelled as a wrestler in addition to being a football player. I can only imagine that he is mentally tough based on his background. His background is tragic. He lived in Jamaica with his mother, a free spirit who at one point chose to live in a hovel with her children despite coming from a family with money. Hugh was a wild child so his mother sent him to live with his father in the US in order to learn some discipline. During his first visit back to Jamaica, while Hugh was sleeping, his mother and little sister were brutally and viciously murdered by her spurned ex-boyfriend and his nephew. Thornton went back to live with his father but the two never got along and eventually he left home to live with a relative. He found football and wrestling as an escape from his troubles, and he blossomed into an incredible athlete. I see him as eventually starting at a guard spot, or potentially even right tackle. Adding him on top of Xavier Nixon gives you a nice set of options. If Martin never pans out then you've got the possibility of fielding a set of tackles anyway with Nixon at left and Thornton potentially at right. If Martin does pan out and Nixon does not, you may be able to use Thornton at right tackle. If all of them pan out then you can slide Thornton in to play guard.

    #146 - DT Kwame Geathers, Georgia
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1ZrFOxQXz0
    The Dolphins have a very unhappy reality to reconcile in that both of their starting tackles are currently on one-year rental. Randy Starks is in Miami on a franchise tender and may depart after 2013. Paul Soliai has one year remaining under contract and may also depart. Kwame Geathers is an an absolute mammoth of a physical specimen. He is 6053 and 342 lbs with 35.5 inch arms. He has an absolutely massive lower body and 'bubble'. His numbers aren't going to look superb, with a 5.40 in the 40 yard dash, 29 inch vertical, 8'7" broad jump, 7.85 cone drill and 5.27 second shuttle drill. However, for his size those numbers are actually quite good. Even better is when you watch the tape and you see him able to redirect at that massive hulking size and consistently get off blocks and get the ball carrier. Then you see his motor as he speeds his way down the field, and the whole package is just very impressive. He has the strength to back up that size although his 21 bench reps don't necessarily describe his strength well (remember, he has 35.5 inch arm length). He's very tough to dig out of a hole and he regularly bullies around guys that try to block him single. Watch him play against Alabama's incredible offensive line. He's still just an underclassmen and I think he will continue to improve and develop that NFL strength you see. If you're talking about the 5th round, you're not going to get much better than this guy as someone to groom to eventually take over Paul Soliai's spot. He has a big time football background. He is related to Robert Geathers Sr., Robert Geathers Jr., James 'Jumpy' Geathers, and Clifton Geathers (who played briefly for Miami).

    #166 - RB Dennis Johnson, Arkansas
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LhHZ72gGyno
    This pick would be a great point in the Draft to begin adding to the stable of running backs in the backfield to go along with Lamar Miller, Daniel Thomas and Jonas Gray. You have to remember that Marcus Thigpen has been used exclusively as a wide receiver since joining the Dolphins, so he does not really figure into the mix at that position. The Dolphins need bodies. The style of running that they prefer is one similar to what you see with Shanahan style offenses. The unique key to that style has always been to cycle through tailback prospects until you find one that really 'gets it'. The vision, timing, durability and cutback instincts necessary to run the style are not necessarily something you can assume in higher round prospects, and Shanahan's method has always seemed to revolve around attacking the position with numbers until everything clicks with one guy. Dennis Johnson very much continues the theme of toughness and strength. Despite his small stature, he is one of the toughest backs in the NFL Draft to bring down on the football field. He gets low and lays his shoulder into defenders, and keeps his feet churning with those short strides. He has a great stiff arm. He gets north and south. He has 4.40 speed. He blocks extremely well. He has soft hands out of the backfield. Someone in the media close to the Arkansas program has compared his locker room character and work ethic to D.J. Williams, who was extremely well thought of in those regards. He is probably the top third down back candidate in the Draft and the functions he excels at are ones which remain questionable for Lamar Miller. Thus, he would fit in nicely as someone to rotate with Miller. Johnson reminds me a lot of Maurice Jones-Drew and if he's still available at this pick then the Dolphins should run up to the podium with this card.

    #217 - FB Lonnie Pryor, Florida State
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doNyjdbdLOM
    Yet, having said all of what I said above about Dennis Johnson, you have to remain disciplined and realize that this cutback game is indeed a numbers game. You have to cycle through guys and see which one really 'gets it'. Taking a stab at Lonnie Pryor at this stage in the Draft would be an extremely wise move as he can serve as both fullback and tailback. He is a very TOUGH player that continues my toughness theme nicely. You would not even be surprised if Pryor turned out to be the best cutback zone style runner out of the entire group of guys in the backfield between he, Lamar Miller, Jonas Gray, Daniel Thomas and Dennis Johnson. Yet he could make the team by competing with and beating Jorvorskie Lane for a job. Lane was a nice story coming out of training camp and preseason. However, the blocking we saw from him on the field did not match the hype. He was not a very good lead blocker and this system does not necessarily even call for a so-called "stab you in the heart" fullback. It can be useful when you have a gifted lead blocker, but Lane is not that. Worst of all with Lane was his tendency to fumble whenever he carried the football. That was supposed to be the allure of Jorvorskie Lane. He was a good tailback in college and he was supposed to be a good short yardage option in Miami. Yet, he fumbled a number of times and he also failed to convert on short yardage. I believe Lonnie Pryor may do better in those roles, while also being a solid blocker. And it wouldn't shock me if he turned out to be a talented ball carrier in all situations, rather than just short yardage.

    #225 - LB Vince Williams, Florida State
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKtLeVF3LMU
    The Dolphins need some linebacker depth. They replaced Karlos Dansby and Kevin Burnett with Dannell Ellerbe and Phil Wheeler straight up, but that leaves them still trying to rely on guys like Jason Trusnik, Jonathan Freeny and Austin Spitler as their primary backups. Additionally, Koa Misi only has one year remaining under contract. In Vince Williams you are getting a guy that could be better depth at the position in the short term, and may even develop into the middle linebacker starter as Dannell Ellerbe and Phil Wheeler play on the outsides. The Dolphins believe they have their coverage linebackers in Ellerbe and Wheeler. They don't need a coverage specialist here. They need a thumper. Vince Williams is a wrecking ball. He has a fantastic trigger and extraordinary physicality. He's very strong. He may be a weakness in coverage but in the Dolphins' system, he would probably be coming off the field on nickel downs anyway.

    #250 - CB Kayvon Webster, South Florida
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7zsDKtSgXwA
    There is not anything about Kayvon Webster that screams physical toughness or strength the same way the string of draft picks above him do. In fact, Kayvon is more of a track star at corner who moves like he's controlled by a joystick. However, through contacts with the South Florida program, I have come to know Kayvon as an extremely MENTALLY tough football player and worker. His name is always given as the player that exemplifies work ethic and ability to work out and get his body right. The Miami native carries a tremendous amount of respect from fellow players, and not just players on the South Florida roster but also workout partners from around the country such as Stedman Bailey of West Virginia. When you break Kayvon down on tape, you see a guy with tremendous physical running and closing ability and underrated instincts, especially in zone. His tackling and aggressiveness is up and down. There are a lot of instances where he shows proper aggressiveness to fight through blocks, the physicality to hit ball carriers and the discipline to wrap up instead of just laying a shoulder into the player. However there are also times when he lacks that aggressiveness to fight through the block and go for the ball. His instincts in zone at the moment seem stuck in "almost there" territory. What I liked as I watched him practice all week at East-West Shrine practice was his attentiveness to the details and ability to take coaching. He showed his instincts and ability to stay in receivers' hip pocket, but he also showed the willingness to slow things down and make sure he was getting the details right, especially on special teams where he shined all week. I think he would make a tremendous roll of the dice to round a corners unit that includes Brent Grimes, Sam Shields/D.J. Hayden, Richard Marshall and Nolan Carroll. He should contribute early and well on special teams.
     
  2. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

    29,745
    11,512
    0
    Nov 23, 2007
    I really like basically replacing Patterson with Shields. That in itself is a coup.

    As I've been saying, only way we can go after Austin is by first shoring up other positions, and you uVe done that nicely.

    I really like the Johnson pick, especially not knowing what we have in Jonas Gray. I am certain that Lamar Miller can't be an every down back, but is a very nice compliment back.

    I LOVE Jonathan Martin, and have for several years now, but I honestly don't think he's ready to play Left Tackle in the NFL yet. I do trust Philbin in the front line movement, at least until he proves otherwise. We will see how it plays out.

    I can't help but notice the strong majority of your picks are Geographically condensed :shifty: but I like the fact you have splintered o-line help along with more defensive backfield help, a possible edge rusher and even Kelce as well

    I will stick with what I have been saying, IF we don't shore the CB spot up before the draft, I don't think we can circumvent Trufant and hope that Hayden is there. This is still a big gaping hole in our defense, and we will never overtake the Cheatriots with that going on.
     
    MrClean likes this.
  3. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    79,599
    159,162
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    Hah, I wasn't even necessarily trying to stick with Florida players. Just happened that way.
     
  4. mroz

    mroz Fix the OL Club Member

    25,964
    24,600
    113
    Oct 26, 2008
    SF Bay Area
    Doesnt Sam Shields have a 2nd round tender?

    I like Austin, Hayden and Thronton picks

    Taylor? 2nd round? Something in my house would get broken if that Fins took Taylor period… much less in the 2nd round…. They guy plays like he has 20 pound ankle weights on his feet...
     
  5. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

    42,442
    24,982
    113
    Jul 6, 2012
    NC
    I think allowing Austin to serve as a buffer for Wallace makes a lot of sense. Wallace's comfort zone so to speak within this offense shouldn't be more than 70 catches/season, and with Tavon on the field not only should we be able to keep him within that range but those 60-70 catches should be quite productive as well.
     
    Bpk likes this.
  6. Clark Kent

    Clark Kent Fighter of the Nightman

    8,560
    4,133
    113
    May 9, 2008
    Yes, that's why CK suggested Hayden as the alternative pick @ 42. I've been advocating Sam Shields the whole off-season. It's a pickup that makes a lot of sense on a number of levels. It's basically Vontae for Shields (kind of, we have to use our pick, not Indy's). Get a proven, young player, rather than rolling the dice on a rookie. However... I don't think it will happen though.

    1). No one in the EAST has a feared enough QB/WR combo to warrant it. Brady is Brady, but he handles business in the middle of the field with his TE's. His two starting WR's are gone and replaced with oft-injured vets (Eldeman and Amendola). NYJ and BUF have no QB's to throw to any of their WR's, so whatever.

    2). If we add a legit pass rusher opposite of Wake, our front 7 is downright filthy. Best in the NFL with plenty of depth and flexibility. At least in 2013 (long term, both our DT's are on 1 year deals, so...). Getting after the QB will benefit anyone we have in the secondary.

    3). Wasn't there a rumor Miami contacted the Jets about Revis? Didn't Revis express a bunch of interest in Miami? If Miami has eyes for Revis, I don't think trading for Shields is all that smart. You'll save money by drafting a CB in rounds 2 or 3, get a young guy developing with our DB core, and next year hit up Revis. I don't personally want Revis (Will be too old and expensive to be investing in), but we'll have a bunch more money. Especially if we get Starks signed long term and let Soliai walk.
     
  7. mroz

    mroz Fix the OL Club Member

    25,964
    24,600
    113
    Oct 26, 2008
    SF Bay Area
    thx… IDK how I missed that
     
  8. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    79,599
    159,162
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    Revis to Miami has zero legs, from what I can tell.
     
    Clark Kent likes this.
  9. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

    29,745
    11,512
    0
    Nov 23, 2007
    I certainly hope not. Obviously the talent us there (still have to see how he's doing post injury) but the guy makes too DAMN much money and will certainly be demanding even more in the future.

    Also don't want any baby**** green taint in Miami....... :shifty:
     
  10. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

    29,745
    11,512
    0
    Nov 23, 2007
    Wait. After reading yor Austin rationale......you want to draft him just so Bess and Hartline aren't the ones outdoing Wallace? I have a tough time with that.

    I do agree that Wallace isn't a true #1 receiver, but I don't think Austin can be that guy either......nor do I think that Philbins offense relies on one.

    Maybe I misunderstood Chris. Please clarify
     
  11. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    79,599
    159,162
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    What I wrote is what I meant. I'm not re-writing it.
     
  12. Anonymous

    Anonymous Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    13,969
    3,367
    113
    Jul 5, 2009
    Love the draft, especially the second round picks and Kelce. But I would be disappointed if we walked out of this draft without a FS.
     
  13. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    79,599
    159,162
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    My one regret. It's a punt. But some tough choices had to be made and I'm not taking a FS just to take one, has to be a guy I really believe in.
     
  14. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

    42,442
    24,982
    113
    Jul 6, 2012
    NC
    Bess is done after this year so he's irrelevant in this.
    The notion here is to dissipate the pressure put on satisfying Wallace's hefty contract so that proper offensive balance can be ensured. Basically, having two high profile guys cancels each other out so that we really don't have one high profile guy stealing too many targets. It's not just about Philbin's offense b/c his offense isn't the one making the throws; Tannehill is, and a move like this would help maintain proper passing distribution once the ball is snapped b/c I'm guessing $60 million Mike Wallace might be perceived differently than 3rd round Mike Wallace.
     
    MrClean, Da 'Fins and ckparrothead like this.
  15. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    79,599
    159,162
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    I think people underestimate where that pressure can come from. They think I'm just referring to like Armando Salguero writing a column or something like that. No. It comes from everywhere. Mike Wallace thinks he's got to be the king sh-t in this offense because he's got a $60 million contract. I have no doubt of that. He'll be lobbying for the ball. Ryan Tannehill probably agrees with him. He knows what's what. Holy cow I just got me a pro bowl $60 million receiver. I'd better throw the ball to him. Hell even Tom Brady fell into that trap with Randy Moss up in NE, which is part of why they shipped Randy off so unceremoniously when his performance started to not live up to the trust Brady kept putting in him. Other teammates will be lobbying for Mike Wallace to get the ball. He's the $60 million man. He's supposed to be high impact. Remember when Karlos Dansby starts spouting off about how Jared Odrick and Cameron Wake shouldn't have been off the field for that last Patriots drive, period? Yeah. Wait until Mike Wallace has only like 3 catches in a loss. See what other players come out of the woodwork under the shield of anonymity (assuming they're not stupid like Dansby, who never was smart), talking about how dumb it is that we're not getting Mike Wallace more involved. Oh and that's if COACHES don't take the same pot shots anonymously. We lose games where Wallace only catches 3 balls, who loses sleep? Who takes all the heat? Mike Sherman, Joe Philbin, Ryan Tannehill, etc. Questions being asked, articles being written, colleagues (former coaches, former players) taking shots at you on Sportscenter. Oh and your GM whose job is on the line? The guy who Mike Sherman specifically pointed out right along side Joe Philbin as the two guys he had to ask permission if he wanted to get Michael Egnew more involved in the games? That guy? You think he's not going to be getting itchy about the guy HE paid $60 million is getting like 3 or 4 catches a game? With his job on the line?

    Yeah...the pressure can come from EVERYWHERE. That's why I point out that if you take a Tavon Austin, you add another big fish to the pond, you really balance things out AND you give Ryan Tannehill the kind of weapon he's shown a genuine comfort level with over the years.
     
    Da 'Fins, Bpk and ssmiami like this.
  16. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

    42,442
    24,982
    113
    Jul 6, 2012
    NC
    Yeah I very much agree.

    As for the bold, it works well in Green Bay, and as far as I know it works well in NYG, Atlanta, Dallas, and New Orleans, too.
     
  17. CANDolphan

    CANDolphan Well-Known Member

    1,006
    546
    113
    Feb 18, 2012
    You know, this is the perfect plan IMO (cutting Patterson, hand waving a 2nd round pick, grabbing Sam Shields to a contract offer they simply can't match) but for whatever reason I just don't see any NFL GM pulling the trigger.

    I'd be happier than a pig in **** if we managed to walk out of this draft with Sam Shields, Tavon Austin, Taylor, Kelce and Nixon out of the first 2 days.
     
    Bpk likes this.
  18. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    79,599
    159,162
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    Here are some alternatives to some of the guys I mentioned in the original plan:

    Slot Wide Receiver (Tavon Austin R1): Stedman Bailey (R2), Ryan Swope (R3), Marquise Goodwin (R4), Zach Rogers (R5)

    Boundary Corner (Sam Shields/D.J. Hayden R2-A): Xavier Rhodes (R1), Darius Slay (R2), B.W. Webb (R3), Terry Hawthorne (R4), Sanders Commings (R4), Kayvon Webster (R7)

    Defensive End (Devin Taylor R2-B): Bjoern Werner (R1), Tank Carradine (R1), Alex Okafor (R2), Corey Lemonier (R2), Cornelius Washington (R3), Quanterus Smith (R5)

    Tight End (Travis Kelce R3-A): Tyler Eifert (R1), Vance McDonald (R3), Chris Gragg (R4), Joseph Fauria (R5), Justice Cunningham (R7), Luke Wilson (R7)

    Offensive Tackle (Xavier Nixon R3-B): Lane Johnson (R1-Trade Up), Terron Armstead (R2), Menelik Watson (R2), Kyle Long (R2), Hugh Thornton (R4)

    Offensive Guard (Hugh Thornton R4): Brian Schwenke (R3), Brian Winters (R3), Alvin Bailey (R4)

    Defensive Tackle (Kwame Geathers R5-A): Kawann Short (R2), Brandon Williams (R3), Akeem Spence (R4)

    Running Back (Dennis Johnson R5-B): Giovanni Bernard (R2), Johnathan Franklin (R2), Christine Michael (R3), Mike Gilislee (R3), Lonnie Pryor (R7), Zac Stacy (R7), Ray Graham (R7), Cierre Wood (R7)

    Full Back (Lonnie Pryor R7-A): Kyle Juczszyk (R7)

    Linebacker (Vince Williams R7-B): Jarvis Jones (R1), Kiko Alonso (R3), Jamie Collins (R3), A.J. Klein (R5), Jake Knott (R7), Travis Johnson (R7)
     
    ToddPhin, ATLFINFAN and ssmiami like this.
  19. Conuficus

    Conuficus Premium Member Luxury Box

    18,081
    19,758
    113
    Dec 8, 2007
    Well away from here
    So you're saying he gets his legs broken if he leaves NY? Those damn Sparanos..............
     
    P h i N s A N i T y likes this.
  20. peakz

    peakz New Member

    150
    155
    0
    Apr 15, 2010
    CK, what do you think of Malliciah Goodman? Not heard many people talking about him, wondered if there was any red flags.
     
  21. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

    22,623
    50,064
    113
    Nov 30, 2007
    Goodman has serious hands, big body, can really destroy with his hands but lacks great athletic ability.
     
    ToddPhin likes this.
  22. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    79,599
    159,162
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    Just a run player to me, at this point. I liked him a lot based on 2011 tape and thought he'd have potential to be an Israel Idonije type player but he was a disappointment in 2012. He didn't really take a step forward, which is what he needed to do because even in 2011 he looked incomplete. Then at the Senior Bowl televised practices I saw more of the same.
     
  23. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

    29,745
    11,512
    0
    Nov 23, 2007
    So, you are predicating our entire success on Austin being a top tier Alpha WR?

    I do have huge problems with that personally, but I know I am in the minority here. I just don't like hitching my prize pig up to a very uncertain Wagon is all.

    All in all, still a very nice draft, especially if we can pick up Sam Shields
     
  24. peakz

    peakz New Member

    150
    155
    0
    Apr 15, 2010
    Might have been just me but I saw some things from a pass-rushing standpoint that I didn't see from anyone else in the draft other than Tank Carradine. He lit up a few games, particularly vs. LSU. I didn't see him at the Senior bowl which is a shame.
     
  25. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    79,599
    159,162
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    What in anything I wrote gives you that impression?
     
  26. Witheringplant

    Witheringplant Junior Member

    31
    4
    0
    Jan 8, 2008
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
     
    eltos_lightfoot likes this.
  27. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

    36,936
    10,264
    0
    Mar 25, 2008
    Thee...Ohio State University
    He adds a desired dimension to our offense. We would be dangerous with Wallace on a 9 route with Saftey help and a Slant to Austin underneath on the same side of the field has big chunks of yards written all over it. And that's just ONE example.
     
  28. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

    42,442
    24,982
    113
    Jul 6, 2012
    NC
    I understand what you're saying, AZ. Nobody likes hitching their prize pig to an uncertain wagon; however the uncertainty of said wagon is all in the perception. Many of us in favor of Austin perceive the wagon to be quite stable actually.

    As for the first sentence, there's a perception associated with a 1st round pick that's closely akin to that of a high dollar free agent signing, and that perception helps to balance each other out. Austin doesn't have to become a top tier Alpha WR for this to occur, although I feel like you're putting a few extra adjectives in CK's mouth in the description. Nobody has come close to saying we need or expect Tavon to reach the level of Calvin Johnson, AJ Green, Julio Jones, Dez Bryant, Brandon Marshall, or Larry Fitzgerald in order for this to be successful. Tavon only has to live up to his billing as the special, playmaking, slot receiver/Xfactor that he is, similar to Percy Harvin in that regard who isn't a a top tier Alpha receiver BTW.
     
    azfinfanmang likes this.
  29. mroz

    mroz Fix the OL Club Member

    25,964
    24,600
    113
    Oct 26, 2008
    SF Bay Area

    Of the guys you have mentioned I think I would go like this:

    1. Tank…. you get your pass rush DE out of the way, Jones would be my second choice
    2a. Hayden, finish shoring up the CB position
    2b. Franklin, get you backup RB position filled. I dont think Thomas is in the Fins future plans. Higher then I think Franklin will go.
    3a. Bailey or Swope, need to add a weapon to Tannehill's arsenal.
    3b. Schwenke, add depth to the interior OL and looking forward towards next year in case Louis leaves after one season.
    4. Thornton, OT is a position that I think may need to be addressed earlier based on who we have on the team right now.
    5a. AJ Klien, LB depth
    5b. Fauria, great red zone target thought he doesnt really satisfy the need as a blocking TE.

    I think by adding Tank to the DE position you put more pressure on the QB's thus relieving some of the pressure off the CB's (king of the obvious). BTW, I am not one of those guys that think Miami's pass rush was a huge problem… on the flip side, I dont think you can have enough pass rushers. AND I think Tank is going to fall some due to his injury, 12 is a bit high for him IMO. Hayden combined with Grimes will give us a pair of very good CB's and we will have a mentor in place to guide Hayden through his rookie year. Patterson or Marshall will fill the slot CB position.

    Franklin is a fall back in case something goes wrong with Miller (which I am not expecting as I think he is going to have a break out year). Just cant go into the season with Thomas as our backup.
     
    azfinfanmang and Bpk like this.
  30. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

    4,697
    1,667
    113
    Feb 1, 2012
    One of the big questions I have is how is Joe Philbin going to handle all of these new players. He has spent the past year saying free agency isn't the answer and I'm guessing he had some problems with the veterans in the locker room last season. Now all of the sudden he's magically changed his tune on free agency?
     
  31. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

    22,623
    50,064
    113
    Nov 30, 2007
    How do you know he meant what he said about free agency?
     
  32. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

    4,697
    1,667
    113
    Feb 1, 2012
    There was an article today in the Boston Globe in which he talked about it.
     
  33. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    It massively benefits Lamar Miller on inside and outside zone runs out of Ace Formation. Consider that the TE would be Keller... who is also a massive passing threat to the LBs in that situation.

    Miller would have breathing room with the defense on it's heels, imo.

    Also, slot screens to Tavon would be effective out of that formation.

    The alternative is an I-formation with Charles Clay, and 3WR. Again, very flexibile as Clay could lead-block, or defeat an LB on a route. Miller again benefits from the defense having to be very careful.

    I feel like draw plays will be especially effective in an offense with that many genuine passing threats, and Lamar Miller will kill you if you drop into coverage and let him attack the space... if he goes the right way for the handoff.
     
  34. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    I don't see the uncertainty in Tavon Austin, unless you are expecting the wrong things from him.

    - He has not had injury problems
    - He is a good receiver and RAC guy
    - He simply cannot be expected to play outside and assume success. PLay him in the slot and backfield, and on returns and you will get what you see on film. An electrical storm of a player.

    I feel like 12 is a bit of a reach for that role, to be honest (he's like a slightly better Dexter McCluster, is all). But, as a fit for our offense, I think pairing him with Wallace, Keller and Miller makes like very difficult for defenses. I like that and it may be worth the reach.
     
    azfinfanmang likes this.
  35. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    I think it's reasonable to discuss what is said as if it may be valid. I mean, you can;t be sure of ANYTHING anyone says after week 17, really.

    Unless it's Vontae Davis. He is very honest.
     
  36. jim1

    jim1 New Member

    5,902
    3,054
    0
    Jul 1, 2008
    McCluster was electric in college, but I don't think that he has Austin's speed. I'm not crazy about his size, but his combination of speed and quicks is nearly unique imo. Replacing Bess with Austin would be a huge upgrade imo, and provide even more synergy and explosiveness to what we got from Wallace. I'm thinking more and more that it will be Austin or Lane Johnson, maybe Lotulelie if he falls just because he's so good. Johnson and Austin seem to make the most sense though, in terms of pure talent and filling a need. Wallace is a great speed addition, but to really open up the offense Ausitn would be a great choice imo. That or the LT to replace Jake Long, if Martin isn't moved over. And if he is, get Menelik Watson for the right side.
     
    ATLFINFAN and Bpk like this.
  37. Boomer

    Boomer Premium Member Luxury Box

    22,623
    50,064
    113
    Nov 30, 2007
    How do you know he was telling the Globe the truth? ;)
     
  38. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

    29,745
    11,512
    0
    Nov 23, 2007


    I guess this did. I must have misunderstood. My bad.
     
  39. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

    29,745
    11,512
    0
    Nov 23, 2007
  40. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    79,599
    159,162
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    Don't know how in the world you connect that statement to "So, you are predicating our entire success on Austin being a top tier Alpha WR?"

    Unconnectable.
     

Share This Page