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I just gave Dolfans the greatest desktop image of all time: Part II

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Jt0323, Apr 1, 2013.

  1. CANEPHINS

    CANEPHINS No Tats & Dreads Allowed

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    Having a good football teams helps as well.

    Seattle is a really good team.
     
  2. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    That's how I see it! Dolphins stadium is to large to begin with but when the team is really good it draws well and gets loud as hell. It will never have the echo effect of Seattle but it is what it is
     
  3. dWreck

    dWreck formerly dcaf

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    At this point I could just say no one was comparing The two stadiums, because it's not an accurate comparison, it was just an example for examples sake of HFA. its just apples to oranges at this point. Because, although I agree with the bold, I also believe culture, atmosphere and all that can improve without necessarily 'winning'. Not that I don't want to win...... Either way.... OPs pic is dope :yes:
     
  4. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    I have been to the OB and to the new stadium (both in the Marino era) when the fans had high hopes for the Dolphins to win (even on MNF in the new place which is typically much more rabid an environment) - and the OB was much, much louder. And a much better experience in terms of intensity.

    This stadium is terrible and will never be rockin'. Not only are the stands too far from the field but the upper deck is to gently sloped, imo. I think three things need to happen 1) Move stands closer in; 2) slope upper deck a bit more steeply on the section moved in; and 3) put an awning over each sideline upper deck (and even over the end zone sections). The third proposal would also make it more comfortable for fans in the heat of the sun and in the rain.

    [​IMG]
     
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  5. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  6. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I agree that the slope is a big issue. That's why it will never be as intimidating as the OB was. When the OB got rocking it felt like a wave of humanity was about to crash over you. On the field at Dolphin stadium it feels more like , "look there's a bunch of people being loud way over there". Maybe the proposed configuration will make it louder, but I doubt it will ever be as intimidating as the OB was. I think there's a whole generation of Dolphin fans who'll never understand how intimidating a stadium can be.
     
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  7. Coloradotrv

    Coloradotrv Well-Known Member

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    The proposed stadium cover should help with the noise level, along with the proposed concept of bringing the lower bowl in towards the field. The glass roof should keep a ton of noise in the stadium. I never had the chance to go to the Orange Bowl, but from the couple of times I have been to our stadium it hasn't been quiet. Could be better, but I have been to worse. I think the team is moving in the right direction in terms of stadium upgrades, marketing decisions, and on field play. The dolphins will be very respected in a few short years and one other reason for that is the man in that photo. RT is going to take us places.
     
  8. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You definitely don't get it, your responses are completely contradictory..

    How can I put this another way...in that post above you are claiming that the only thing wrong with our stadium is the lack of people...that response tells me you have no concept of a true home field advantage, or my and others issues with the stadium.

    A true home field advantage is when several variables come together, the most important one being, how close the stands are to the field, it's simple logistics, relative to sound level, the feeling of closeness, and the energy created, energy that the football players can actually feel because of those logistics, energy that can make a difference in the way an athlete performs in the confines of their building.

    When I say you don't get it, i say that because I don't think you believe that the closeness of the fans and the stands to the action and to the players, can actually have a tangible affect on player performance...I absolutely positively do, and when it comes to our stadium that concept is on steroids to the opposite direction considering our stadium is farther away from the action then any other stadium in the sport..
     
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  9. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    I'm talking about ten minutes into the first quarter outside the stadium. Lol.

    You can probably find great seats to non AFC East games.
     
  10. dWreck

    dWreck formerly dcaf

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    HMMMMMMMMMMMMM... I dunno Deej! Sounds like a lot of magic shenanigans and unicorns if you ask me!
     
  11. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Sure I understand that, and this is where it always gets lost in translation..

    Have you ever heard of a musician stating that because the venue was so intimate (Oz does not understand the meaning of intimacy as it relates to a venue), that it just made them bring out their best performance, that they just had more adrenaline?, regardless of how big or small that venue is?, I know this as fact, the proximity of the fans to the players is what makes the tangible difference in adrenaline, it's quite simple actually, when any performer feels like the audience is closer to them, on top of them, they can kinectly feel that energy, and are more inclined to come out with the right attitude, and sustain their adrenaline, reach higher levels of cardiac output, now, when you talk about our stadium, you are getting the reverse affect, the players have a sense that their on the field by themselves, that noone is on top of them, there is no connection to the fans because of the distance that is in play, and cannot feel, by simple proximity, the energy that is created in a true home field venue.

    All this has cumulated into a double, triple negatives, which includes the deterioration of a culture, flat performances at home, and a team that every year seems to lack emotion when playing at home..

    I don't care how winning this program becomes, the logistics and achchetecture of this particular building will never allow a true home field advantage, it will always be the closest to a neutral field in the league, and unfortunately that trickle down affect makes its way to everything that involves this franchise, from attendance, to passive behavior once inside, to lack of culture, and worst, team performance..

    Bottom line, it's all about the venue, the venue can create culture by making the fans feel like they can make an impact in their beloved team, and when they feel like they can do that once, they crave it, they lust for it, and they tell their friends about it.
     
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  12. dWreck

    dWreck formerly dcaf

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    I completely agree. I was just giving you sH%t. That seems to be a line of thinking at times.
     
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  13. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    It's really an acoustic issue. And, that's a scientific issue. As NFL stadiums go, Miami's arguably has The Worst Acoustics in the NFL. It may seem loud, but relative to other stadiums it's not. For a stadium to have great acoustics and be really loud it needs the sound to be "trapped" - that can work well for open air stadiums when they are shaped properly and have sound reverberation (Like Seattle). Miami's does not. It's a big open square. It's just that simply. That's why it's a terribly designed venue.

    Move the stands closer in (not just add a few seats at the base, that's idiotic) - by taking one side and rebuilding it. An entirely new set of seats and boxes (expensive, yes, but necessary). Get them at least 20 yards in. Then, do just like Seattle has done and get roofs over the upper decks. That will both draw more fans in on hot, rainy days and make it a lot louder. And, the experience of a football game will be dynamic and electric instead of blasé.
     
  14. Coloradotrv

    Coloradotrv Well-Known Member

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    I think the new proposed roof will fix this. Will have to wait and see
     
  15. Drowning

    Drowning ONCE MORE UNTO THE BREACH

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    Crowd was the 1st thing that caught my attention.

    Insane image. Setting to background now. Thanks.
     
  16. steveincolorado

    steveincolorado Spook, Storme & Pebbles

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    KC has a awesome stadium for the fans, when the Chiefs where winning, that place was rocking. Now they suck, so the place is pretty quiet now. Its quiet now because the product on the field sucks......bottem line.
     
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  17. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    Actually, it is you that are refusing to get it.

    There is not one doubt that the most important thing is the team being very good for a good period of time. That creates TRUST between the two sides. It's not ever going to be, ok, there is a home game this week so lets go see if we can conjure up enough energy to will our terrible team to victory. Not in most cities and especially not in Miami.

    The thing you accuse me of not getting is something that, I can guarantee, I've said long before you on these message boards. I was at the very first home game in Joe Robbie Stadium. I sat in the Club level for close to 10 seasons right on the sidelines. The first time I saw the field up close, I was dumbfounded. BUT that's not the only problem. The slope of the seating goes up WAY to gradual so by the time you get up to the sky boxes, its even farther than it should be. Then you add that footage away, to the footage away from the top of the upper deck, and you're talking about being another 40 or 50 feet away from where it SHOULD be. It was created with Soccer in mind.


    There is absolutely no way to make that up without totally gutting the entire inside of the stadium and moving EVERYTHING forward. Doing that alone would reach, and could easily surpass, the amount of money that the Dolphins are asking for. That does not include the canopy portion. THIS IS NOT HAPPENING right?

    Adding seats to the lower deck and taking away some from the upper decks is nothing more than putting a band aid on a cut that requires staples! The canopy will help reflect the noise back towards the field but I doubt it will be THAT much since it is open at the back and open in the center.

    So yeah, I get it but the absolute first thing that has to happen is for the team to improve, and become a consistent playoff team with aspirations of a super bowl. Without becoming a playoff contender there is nothing they can do to THAT stadium to help create anything.

    However, and I don't care what anyone thinks but that stadium, as it is now, gets plenty loud. Loud enough to be an advantage.

    And with that said. The stadium also holds far too many fans. This is one of the biggest downfalls of the stadium. If they keep it at 74-75,000, it is a HUGE mistake. The rabid fan base in Dade, Broward and Palm Beach Counties, the ones who want to go to games, are about 60,000. Leaving nearly 15,000 seats. That's way too many seats to try to fill with our fans. It's almost a guarantee that 8,000 to 10,000 of those remaining seats will be filled with the opponents fans, and especially when the game is an AFC East opponent. I don't care what they do to the stadium. If they keep it as one of the largest stadiums, it will be one of the BIGGEST mistakes of any choices made.
     
  18. steveincolorado

    steveincolorado Spook, Storme & Pebbles

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    It also helps to put a good product on the field and we haven't done that in a long time.
     
  19. WhiteIbanez

    WhiteIbanez Megamediocremaniacal

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    Really it isn't if you are comparing playing music. You might be out of your element. I've killed it in small rooms and large rooms.
    Some days you are really on some nights. Not so much.
    You play your *** off regardless. Get better as a team on the stage.
    Weird analogy unless you are a musician.
     
  20. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    Have you ever seen a crappy band fill a venue? No but put a great band on stage and the place will rock no matter how far away the fans are seated!
     
  21. dWreck

    dWreck formerly dcaf

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    I've seen crappy and crappier teams "fill a venue" more than us, so I think its a bad comparison imo.

    edit: also subjective, Maroone 5 just filled up down in miami last week or 2 and I consider them a crappy band.
     
  22. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    Still, a much higher percentage of fans show up than in Miami, in spite of their losing (20% higher attendance rate); and when the team playing well during any game and makes big plays - it's rocking again.

    When the Dolphins have a good game, even if the fans are there, that stadium is never rocking (relative to other NFL venues). Period. End of story.

    Everyone in College Basketball knows it's very tough to play in Cameron Indoor Stadium or Allen Fieldhouse. Why? Not only because of the talent but because the stands are right on top of the players and the student body (at Cameron) surrounds the court (I've sat - stood - on the 2nd row of games there). It doesn't guarantee a win, but it gets the players psyched and the fans psyched and football, like basketball, is a game of momentum and adrenalin rush which can often make a big difference.
     
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  23. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    100 percent agreed, and I believe that the science you are talking about affects the science and central nervous system of an athlete, basically the mindset of a football payer, I also believe the science you are talking about affects the mindset and behavior of the fan directly..It's all not good as it relates to us, and completely in different spectrums as you look at the two pictures you posted..

    My philosophy in this goes deep and strait to the foundation of the culture..imo, I don't believe you can create and develop a great culture unless you have a proper venue that connects the fan to the the team and the action.the fans must feel like they can make a difference to really have a rabid base.

    Raven stadium is 1a 1b with seattles design, as in the most intimate in terms of proximity, they haven't been around that long, but the culture in Baltimore is just incredible..the pride and in game participation is something they take seriously..the venue allows them to make an impact and affect their opponent.

    The Seahawks fan base is in a city that is known to be passive to a degree, now, has the reputation of being some of the best most intimidating in football, they are literally making a fortune off the marketing and publicity of the 12 th man...the Venue has made that culture into a star.

    How was the dolphins and hurricanes culture when we played at the other stadium, relative to both programs and cultures and venue of today, fair enough to say deterioting?

    Unfortunately, these new renovations will only help to a degree, they cannot change the structure or integrity of the building, but because of some serious lack of vision on many levels, I'll take the glossy version of this cancer.
     
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  24. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I digress...again.
     
  25. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Two incredible cultures..two incredible venues..
     
  26. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    spot on.

    We're not saying that a venue can make up for bad personnel people..if you have bad players and qbs, the attendance will always suffer..what it does mean is when you finally get that right, your venue will be back to helping your team play harder, more intense, for longer periods of time, and lesser chances of flat performances, and continued adrenaline in latter parts of the game.
     
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  27. On estimate how many games a season are they losing due to this science you speak of? How many wins is a new stadium worth?
     
  28. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    Anyone have the clip of that game wherein the refs had to beg Don Shula to quiet the crowd so that the other team could snap the ball? If so we can post it and put this discussion to bed.
     
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  29. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box


    You considering and everyone considering a band crappy is the subjective part. Sticking with one part of music is a little more on point. You won't see a crappy rock band fill up any venue unless its a bar band and the bar offers ladies free drinks.

    You've seen what crappy team fill a venue more than us? You're only going to be able to name a couple/few. Until two seasons aqo, Miami had sold out over 100 straight games.
     
  30. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    No, that would make it worse. The current stadium will never have the echo that The Orange Bowl had and that place was built long before anyone understood the acustics of a venue.
     
  31. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box




    KC was long considered to have some of the best fans in the NFL. Now we're seeing them on a constant decline and if they continue to throw out a bad product, it will continue to get worse.

    Sadly with the U.S. economy being bad, it is making some fans think twice about paying to see a bad product.

    That is not the end of the story though. I've seen Dolphins stadium rocking and rolling in person on many occassion.
     
  32. dWreck

    dWreck formerly dcaf

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    Thank you for proving my point and contradicting yourself. You stated and implied a "crappy band cannot fill a big venue"
    1. That's subjective and not a fact, just like my example.
    2. Music was brought up only for the acoustic aspect of the area and the energy it creates, and you are trying to make a point by comparing 'crappy' bands filling up small bars or big venues to NFL stadiums atmospheres having a huge impact on HFA? lol.


    Edit:
    Don't understand this. 1>0, so my point is correct?
     
  33. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    DaVinci understood acoustics. Go back, the Romans understood acoustics. Go back, so did the Greeks...
     
  34. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    This venue understood acoustics and it dates to the 4th century B.C.

    Link

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Orange Bowl isn't quite that old....
     
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  35. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    Digress about what? You're the one who used music to comopare and I do believe, I shot back with the right answer from my point of view on this stadium issue.

    All that science and central nervous system stuff is for the birds.
     
  36. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    DJ, this should tell you all you need to know.
     
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  37. dWreck

    dWreck formerly dcaf

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    I agree, engineers just lay the blueprint for big squares with seats and a field, doubt they care about anything else.
     
  38. dWreck

    dWreck formerly dcaf

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    Again,

    Magic and unicorns
     
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  39. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    Your example was subjective since you may not like a certain music. Now do you think that a crappy band is creating energy? No because it won't sell out. Period.
     
  40. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    Let me correct you then. Do you think that the greak venues are good in comparison to today? All they did was stack rows on top of another.

    Was this created by the greeks back then?
     

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