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Tannehill, Palmer, Flynn and Kolb

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Ohio Fanatic, Apr 1, 2013.

  1. Justright

    Justright Banned

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    I heard that mallet has earned starting job next year. Lol
     
  2. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I understand you disagreeing, but I'll tell you what. For whatever its worth, lets just bring some numbers into this...shall we?


    I am just randomly starting somewhere, so lets just say, TD/INT


    Matt Flynn 9/5
    Ryan Tannehill 12/13

    Yards
    Matt Flynn 1083
    RT 3294

    Rating
    MF-92.0
    RT-76.1

    Comp %
    MF-61.7
    RT-58.3

    Rushing TD
    MF-1
    RT-2

    Fumbles
    MF-3
    RT-9 (This is a VERY alarming number but one I don't see anybody talking about)

    Sacked
    MF-13
    RT-35



    Now then. This time last year I brought up a couple of things about RT that nobody, especially on this site, wanted to hear. In fact, I got into it with somebody in here I respect quite a bit, but that was last year.

    While watching RT almost exclusively while at A&M, there were 2 very strong negatives I saw in his play. The first was his inability to read and react to the pressure. This is partially shown in 35 freakin sacks. I understand it also has to do with a pourous front line (Which isn't any better at this juncture BTW) and the second actually got me drunk on several occasions. See, while sitting and watching Aggie games with a couple of Aggie alum, we came up with a drinking game as we started seeing a very bad tendency. We noticed, that pre-snap, RT almost always stares down his intended receiver. It became uncanny. We would drink a beer anytime we could guess, pre-snap, who his intended target was. We got very very drunk doing this. Guess what, this followed him into the Pros. Don't believe me? Go re-watch the Houston game, in fact, JJ Watt knew it, reacted to it and then even commented on it after the game. I'm pretty sure that Rafael already knew this...because he used to be a scout.

    Now that being said, we all KNOW that Mike Sherman already knows this, and it is probably one of the key-pet peaves they are working on with RT. One thing I DIDN'T see much of him doing his season, and it really surprises me cause at A&M it was definitely a strong point for him was using his legs more. Both running and throwing on the run.

    In short. Ryan Tannehill is a good kid. I like good kids.
    He is also very very bright. I think this does give him above odds chances of turning into a bright star.
    He is also a very very good athlete. Not many kids could come into a program like A&M as the projected QB, get moved to WR, play stellar at that position, then get moved back again and remain the starting QB. Probably very few could. Maybe? 8% of division 1 players if even that many.
    But all this being said, he still has a long long long way to go. I do trust Philbin very much. Sherman? Not nearly as much, but I think he has tons to prove. They chose Tannehill at 8 overall for a reason. They have a vision and I hope we start seeing it this next year, but to come out and say he is head and shoulders better than Matt Flynn at this juncture just isn't accurate. Not at this juncture anyways.
     
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  3. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    My thoughts exactly.
     
  4. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    There is no more compelling evidence, then a bunch of drunk guys being able to tell where a QB is looking in real time on TV footage. It is literally the most accurate scouting that can be done. It is more truth than truth.
     
  5. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    I heard they use the same method for knowing what rounds other teams will take players in.
     
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  6. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Is that the best retort you have? Seriously?

    Why don't you sleep on it awhile and get back with me :up:


    I know, I know. How dare me bring actual numbers into the conversation....
     
  7. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I didn't talk about your numbers, because I don't what they're from. College? Pros?

    As for your drinking game being evidence of anything, yeah, I'm calling bull**** on that.

    But I'm curious as to how you guys use hot wings as scouting tools too. The hotter the sauce, the better prospect you're watching?
     
  8. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Sorry, but it is really that obvious where RT was throwing the ball. Watched it each and every weekend. Sorry if you don't believe me. Not my problem.


    The stats are directly from NFL.com These are these guys Pro Careers.

    Here. Go see exactly where RT is in regards to average...or not so much here

    http://www.nfl.com/stats/statslab

    If Tanny isn't the current player, you can put him in so he shows up in the graph. Not nearly all diamonds and roses when Perspective is involved......
     
  9. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Hahahahaha. I love it. You try to tell me how important empirical evidence is by touting numbers AND you and your buddies completely scientific drinking game. Yeah, I'm douche for not taking that seriously.

    Sooooo, you're telling me that Tanny's numbers as a rookie starter on a considerably poorer team should compare favorably to mostly mop up duty with one of the premier offensive skill groups in the game? Seems legit.

    Golly, if there were only a common denominator between the two that we could use as a guide. But nah, that's just crazy talk on my part. I mean there can't be a person that was Flynn's OC and later became Tannehill's HC or anything. Hell, even if there was, its not like that guy would have chose one over the other or anything.

    But no, watching a game on TV while drunk is a slam dunk indicator.
     
  10. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    And you believe that teams only get credit for drafting players that play exactly to the level appropriate for their draft standing.
     
  11. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Guy watched a lot of Aggie games in real time, not highlights.

    The criticism he brings up, is not new. Tannehill stares down his receivers and this is a well known knock.

    The drinking game by itself isn't much, but coinciding with a well known knock of Tanny, it makes sense. Don't isolate it to ridicule it.
     
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  12. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I completely understand that Tannehill needs better weapons, I also believe that if he stays the same in his play, he will not be the Qb we want him to be, this player must improve his individual game and forget about the weapons, he must improve all facets, right down to his quickness in his drop, in his quickness to evade..I just don't wanna get all comfortable that the weapons is what's going to make him great,no, he's got to improve greatly to reach the levels that some other young qbs are playing at.
     
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  13. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The moment TAnnehill walked on the practice field the competition was over imo, it was that obvious.his talent was far superior than that of Garrard and Moore..would of been a travesty to not let him start..
     
  14. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Golly, thank you for telling me what I can and can't take serious.

    Can I PM you with other possibly confusing things so you can tell me what to do?

    I don't care what the actual criticisms of Tanny are or were. Watching the game on TV in real time does not make one qualified to say he stares down his receivers. Even less so while drunk.
     
  15. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    And that weakness in college translated to the pros, the peripheral sense combined with the quickness to escape pressure was lethargic..average at best considering the athletic ability that the player has..quite disappointing in a sense.
     
  16. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Tannehill didn't beat out Garrard. The latter was named the starter, then got hurt, and later got cut. Had he not gotten hurt, he'd have probably been the opening day starter.
     
  17. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    His age is a joke. Azfinfanmang is an old bastard, same as me. Don't forget to respect your elders.
     
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  18. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I disagree with that my friend..it wasn't even close in terms of command and talent, I was literally blown away at the differences.
     
  19. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    The Pats even admit that had they knew he'd turn out to be as great as he is that they'd have picked him much higher.
     
  20. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Or else just wise ... and crazy..... beyond his years....:shifty:
     
  21. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I think what changed most was the athletic ability in the pro's compared to that in the Big 12. First game I noticed he might have troubles outrunning linebackers was against LSU his Senior year. It was like he would start to take off, and he was usually pretty magical, but his lane would close. That being said, he still ripped off a couple of nice runs in that game. It will enter his game again, once he comes up to speed on all the other intangibles he is learning at the big level I imagine. I think that is something he will pick up on quicker as it is more of a natural than learning to not look down your primary receiver....before the ball is snapped.... SLURP!!!
     
  22. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    C'mon man.

    Whatta you think training camp is for, working on tan lines? It's to simulate game situations and see who performs. Garrard couldn't make it through a few weeks of non contact practices, so yeah, he got beaten out. And coming from a guy who was at camp for the first couple weeks, Tannehill looked better than Garrard anyway.
     
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  23. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    It entered his game in Week 2 vs Oakland, and much more consistently he his quad/knee healed in the last part of the season. Plenty of scrambles, most notably vs Seattle, Buffalo and Jax, there were even some zone read plays where he picked up good yardage with his feet.
     
  24. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Didn't they name Garrard the starter, then before the 1st preseason game he got hurt?
     
  25. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    Naw...I know based on your posts that you're up there close to or into linebacker uniform numbers in age, same as me. :yes:
     
  26. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    Tannehill staring down receivers was a criticism of his that was on every scouting report that I read. It is a problem with him as well as mediocre mechanics and streaky accuracy.
     
  27. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I kind of think that was just politics in a way, a gesture for lack of a better term, the 1st preseason game is basically what two weeks after camp, and the fact that Tannehill missed a couple days to start, it was really obvious that the two had no shot against the kid, I could show you posts from my training camp report that showed my excitement in terms of the differences.
     
  28. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    They did.
     
  29. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

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    And yet...35 sacks........
     
  30. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Would that be NCAA linebackers or NFL linebackers? I just need clarification of what I am being accused :shifty:
     
  31. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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    The Bills and Jags had already quit on their coaches by the time we played them. Those teams were awful.
     
  32. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    And if i told you that atoms were made up of protons, electrons and neutrons and me and some buddies saw them with a regular microscope while we were drunk, it doesn't mean we legitimately came up with the info. Nor does it mean my drunken microscope use qualifies as proof of protons, electrons and neutrons.
     
  33. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    Where I take a player is not indicative of where I rate him. IMO Bailey may well be the best WR in this draft. But I'm not taking him in the first b/c I don't need to. And I could care less what other teams think of a prospect. I trust my own evaluations. I thought Bess deserved a 2nd round grade, but I thought we could get him in the 7th (we got him as an UDFA). I had Mallett rated as a third round prospect, but others, who's opinion I respect, had him rated as a first rounder. I don't think fans recognize how varied opinions on prospects are, not just among teams but even among evaluators on the same team.
     
  34. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    WADR, I think the varied opinions among team evaluators is precisely the reason you don't wait on a guy you feel pretty sure will be a franchise QB. That's where the risk comes in of not grabbing him when you can.

    If you think Brady will become, well Brady, you don't wait till the 7th to take him. I think they liked Brady but didn't really expect greatness from him. They got lucky, and I think that's the point of the discussion.
     
  35. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    Unless you're engaging in actual evaluation rather than just lining up columns of numbers.

    If I compared Phillip Rivers and J.P. Losman just based on numbers after their rookie years, I could make a statement that they're equivalent players.

    Rivers 2004 San Diego Chargers 5 8 62.5 33 4.1 1 0
    Losman 2004 Buffalo Bills 3 5 60.0 32 6.4 0 1

    But that would be a ridiculous statement. Who the player is consists of more than just a few stats. You have to look at what they can do.
     
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  36. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    You're free to have that philosophy, a better safe than sorry approach. But others will be less risk averse. They may be willing to risk waiting. Their level of risk tolerance has no bearing on what their evaluation of the player is.
     
  37. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yes it does.

    If I look into it sober, and saw protons electrons and neutrons. Then you looked into it, and saw ... protons electrons and neutrons, it means your drinking didn't have an adverse effect.
     
  38. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    You really thinks its more likely that the Pats believed Brady was a franchise QB and were willing to wait till the 7th round to grab him then they thought he might be an ok QB and got lucky?

    I understand I'm not as risk adverse as others but....that seems like a huge leap.
     
  39. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Pretend its not me for a second so your argue boner goes down.

    You're telling me that just anyone can be watching football with buddies, drinking and having a good time, and be able to tell in real time from the tv angles if a QB is staring down his receivers? Bull****. Complete and utter bull****.

    Maybe guys who do a lot of this sort of thing like Boomer, CK, Con, alen, Todd or Raf can get an idea if a QB is bad about that while watching under those situations, but i doubt any of them will say for sure without watching more tape in a more controlled manner.
     
  40. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

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    I can't speak for CK's information, but I do believe it's very possible that some there thought he could be a franchise QB and that others there said, "fine you may be right, but we don't need to take him until the 7th".
     
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