1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Salguero: Miami Won't Draft Tavon Austin

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by invid, Apr 2, 2013.

  1. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

    29,745
    11,512
    0
    Nov 23, 2007
    Well, until he actually takes a serious hit that is. And in the NFL, it is more a matter of when, not if.





    Meh, this last years Sooner defense was NOT very good. I saw a handful of teams take them behind the wood shed. They played very very poorly against WV and were physically whopped in every aspect of the game.
     
  2. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    79,599
    159,162
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    Which assumes he WILL get injured when he does finally take a serious hit. Which is a terrible assumption.

    Disagree. They were schematically taken behind the woodshed, IMO.
     
    rafael likes this.
  3. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

    29,745
    11,512
    0
    Nov 23, 2007
    I'm going on Physics alone. IF I am in an automobile accident, I would much prefer my F-150 have a load of gravel in the bed than empty....and there is a very good reason for that :up:
     
  4. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    31,608
    55,630
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    It's silly to suggest the Dolphins wouldn't drafted Tavon Austin, because it's pretty clear they have considered it. They have done their homework on him, and it's possible he didn't live up to the scrutiny in their eyes, but unless something comes out from inside the team you are basically projecting, and probably not with good reason.
     
    Boomer likes this.
  5. pocoloco

    pocoloco I'm your huckleberry Club Member

    8,444
    5,721
    113
    Nov 28, 2007
    North Chicagoland
    The folks in the comment section forget that Jeff Ireland didn't draft Mark Clayton, Wes Welker, Jerry Rice, Zach Thomas, etc. The article is about Jeff Ireland's tendencies, not whether small players can cut it.

    For what it's worth:

    Pat Turner: 6'5", 220 lbs. (3rd)
    Brian Hartline: 6'2", 200 lbs. (4th)
    BJ Cunningham: 6'2", 211 lbs. (7th)
    Rishard Matthews: 6'0", 210 lbs. (7th)

    Brandon Gibson: 6'0", 205 lbs. (free agent)
    Mike Wallace: 6'0", 200 lbs. (free agent)
    Ernest Wilford: 6'4", 235 lbs. (free agent)

    Davone Bess: 5'10", 183 lbs (undrafted)
    Armon Binns: 6'3", 210 lbs (signed off Cincy's PS)
    Jeff Fuller: 6'4" 223 lbs. (undrafted)
    Marlon Moore: 6'0", 190 lbs (undrafted)
    Brian Tims: 6'3", 210 lbs. (undrafted)
    Roberto Wallace: 6'4", 225 lbs (undrafted)

    That projects to an average of 6'2" and 209 lbs. Now does Jeff Ireland sit in the warroom and rank prospects based exclusively on height? I doubt it. But it's pretty clear he has a tendency, and that is in line with the league average (between 6' and 6'3"). He has a bit of a soft spot for the even taller guys and probably is a little less enthused (than most) with really really fast 40 times (save for Wallace).

    Tavon Austin, it bears repeating is 5'8" AND A HALF, and 175 lbs or so. It has nothing to do with bench press reps, that's irrelevant.

    Now Jeff Ireland has taken smaller players but, so far, he rarely does so through the draft (Pat White is the most notable exception). Jonas Gray (5'9") was undrafted, Davone Bess (5'10") was undrafted, Marcus Thigpen (5'9") was signed out of the CFL, etc.

    What this says to me is that Cordarrelle Patterson is a possibility (round 1), Keenan Allen is a possibility (round 2) and Ryan Swope is a possibility (round 3). There is also a better than fair possibility that he saves that fifth and maybe sixth wide receiver spot for a guy he actually drafted (Cunningham or Matthews) or one he thinks highly enough of to poach (Binns)
     
    Disgustipate likes this.
  6. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

    29,745
    11,512
    0
    Nov 23, 2007
    Welcome to the world of Arm-and-oh.

    80% of what he writes fits that mantra. The other 20% comes from what he reads at Thephins.com. :up:
     
  7. rafael

    rafael Well-Known Member

    27,364
    31,261
    113
    Apr 6, 2008
    The physics of human bodies are different. Some flex more on contact than others. Some absorb contact better. Some are better at deflecting contact. Etc. That's why a player like Warrick Dunn can be less of an injury risk than a player like Daniel Thomas. I agree that assuming someone will get injured based on size alone even after they've gone through a complete college career never being injured is a very poor assumption.
     
    Bpk and ToddPhin like this.
  8. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    That tells you all you need to know.
     
  9. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    The damned idiot also said Welker towers over Austin. Welker is a quarter inch taller. :pity:
     
    ToddPhin likes this.
  10. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    The Flux Capacitor is the fictional time travel device that was used by the characters in the movie Back To The Future.
     
  11. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

    29,745
    11,512
    0
    Nov 23, 2007
    Dude. I bet you told your kids about Santa Clause on their 4th birthday too. :pity:

    I was planning on getting LOTS of mileage out of that one. :pity:
     
  12. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    The only one of the main 3 Dolphins reporters. Armando, Omar, and Volin worth listening to IMO, is Volin. As with Darlington before him, Volin doesn't seem to be in possession of a massive ego like Omar and Mandy are.
     
    Claymore95, Boomer, Bpk and 1 other person like this.
  13. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

    42,442
    24,982
    113
    Jul 6, 2012
    NC
    I wonder if Tavon Austin reads some of his Tavon Austin threads. :lol:
     
    Bpk and azfinfanmang like this.
  14. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

    24,029
    40,478
    113
    Dec 6, 2007
    Then explain why Jeff Ireland was more interested in drafting the 5'10" Percy Harvin in the 2009 draft than he was interested in drafting the 6'1" Hakeem Nicks or the 6'3" Kenny Britt?
     
  15. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

    40,533
    33,035
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    Phil Livas (5'7" and 179lbs), Jayson Foster (5'7" and 170lbs) and Chris Williams (5'8" and 175lbs)
     
    ToddPhin and KB21 like this.
  16. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

    24,029
    40,478
    113
    Dec 6, 2007
    IMO, this is even more proof along with Ireland's desire to get Percy Harvin in 2009 that he has had a vision for this type of player for a while. He has struck out on getting this type of player when trying to get them through the UDFA route, and the fact of the matter is, the two players in the NFL that have fulfilled this type of role is were taken in the first two rounds. One is Percy Harvin, whom Jeff Ireland wanted to draft and would have drafted if he had fallen to the Dolphins pick in 2009. The other is Randall Cobb, who was drafted by the team Joe Philbin was most recently a part of before becoming the Dolphins head coach.
     
    Bpk likes this.
  17. Disgustipate

    Disgustipate Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    31,608
    55,630
    113
    Nov 25, 2007
    Ireland has been pretty upfront about saying that strict adherence to positional prototypes means potentially missing out on quality players.

    I'm not sure there are a lot of guys that you can say Jeff Ireland really passed up in the same general physical mold. Since 2008 you've got what, Dexter McCluster(Whom I believe Miami was interested in?), Andrew Hawkins, and then a bunch of guys like Chad Hall and Demaris Johnson. I mean, check out what the Player Finder came up with:

    http://www.pro-football-reference.c...pos_is_db=Y&draft_pos_is_k=Y&draft_pos_is_p=Y
     
  18. pocoloco

    pocoloco I'm your huckleberry Club Member

    8,444
    5,721
    113
    Nov 28, 2007
    North Chicagoland
    Gotta be on the roster or practice squad at some point during the regular season. These guys were training camp fodder if I remember correctly. I believe Binns in the only exception to that in my list.

    If you want to go balls to the wall, go comb back through Boomer's lists of pre-draft wide receiver meetings since 2009 and break it down and see just how off base I am. I don't suspect it moves the needle too far one way or the other, but you are welcome to prove me wrong.

    ANYWAY, I agree with KB's notion that Ireland probably has a hard-on for the Percy Harvin type. "Probably". I think maybe, just maybe, Reggie Bush was envisioned in that mold by Ireland before Sparano tried to make him into a traditional between the tackles back.

    But for all this supposed interest in Percy Harvin, Ireland did not draft him and did not trade for him. He had the opportunity to do both.
     
  19. pocoloco

    pocoloco I'm your huckleberry Club Member

    8,444
    5,721
    113
    Nov 28, 2007
    North Chicagoland
    I would say he was more interested in the 6'5" Patrick Turner and the 6'2" Brian Hartline in the 2009 draft

    If I remember, this whole size thing was a real issue when we were all discussing 3-4 linebackers not too long ago. The guys under 6'1" were more of less out the window.
     
  20. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

    40,533
    33,035
    113
    Dec 11, 2007
    These guys were brought in to win the spot and couldn't do it. At one point Chris Williams and Livas were starting on special teams. Plus training camp fodder is such a terrible and lazy term. If the players showed they could pull off plays on the field, they would have made the team.

    Every year Ireland brings in a smaller player. It is obvious that he likes the small quick type of player.

    You also left off Edmond Gates, who is a smaller reciever. not Tavon Austin small, but still small.

    EDIT: When did he have the opportunity to draft Percy Harvin?
     
  21. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

    24,029
    40,478
    113
    Dec 6, 2007
    The size issue was only an issue when Parcells was around.

    Plus, Jeff did not have the opportunity to draft Percy Harvin, but they brought him to Miami the day before the draft for a reason. They were going to pick him. The fact that they didn't trade for him as a pro player could be because they feel like Tavon Austin is a cheaper, less headachy version of Percy.
     
  22. pocoloco

    pocoloco I'm your huckleberry Club Member

    8,444
    5,721
    113
    Nov 28, 2007
    North Chicagoland
    True, I did forget Clyde Gates (5'11", 197 lbs.). I also forgot Brandon Marshall (6'4", 230 lbs.). It was an off the cuff list.

    He could have traded up the three spots in 2009. Anything is available for a price. In retrospect, I think we would all trade Pat White for Percy Harvin.

    I don't know if the rumors are to be believed. I guess we'll never know if we would have had Percy Harvin instead of Vontae Davis that year. Or, if similar rumors are to be believed, Jake Locker instead of Mike Pouncey.
     
    Da 'Fins likes this.
  23. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

    24,029
    40,478
    113
    Dec 6, 2007
    So what you are saying is that Miami is showing strong interest in a player that they have no interest in? The GM personally attends three of his games, attends his workout along with the head coach and other assistant coaches, puts him through a workout at his WVU workout, and they are bringing him to Miami for another interview, but they really have no interest in drafting him because he's 5'8 1/2" and doesn't fit the size prototype that was in place when Bill Parcells was around.

    Do you really think Jeff had permission to trade up in that draft to take Percy Harvin when it was Bill Parcells that told Jeff that if he traded a 2nd round pick for Brandon Marshall, that he better make a move to get that pick back?
     
  24. CANDolphan

    CANDolphan Well-Known Member

    1,006
    546
    113
    Feb 18, 2012
    Why are we constantly being told that Ireland is going to WVU just to see Austin? You know he's got teammates. That play WR.
     
    ckparrothead likes this.
  25. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I think he must have been checking out Joe Madsen the center, or Tyler Bitancurt the kicker. :shifty:
     
  26. ToddPhin

    ToddPhin Premium Member Luxury Box Club Member

    42,442
    24,982
    113
    Jul 6, 2012
    NC
    Let's put you in the GM shoes. If you have only a handful of games per year to personally scout players, will you spend it on second day prospects or will you be more concerned with our first round pick, especially since it's the selection your job is tied to the most?
     
  27. azfinfanmang

    azfinfanmang Premium Member Luxury Box

    29,745
    11,512
    0
    Nov 23, 2007
    Both. If its your job, then both.
     
  28. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

    24,029
    40,478
    113
    Dec 6, 2007
    The biggest reason is that Ireland typically attends the games of players he's interested in taking in the first round. See Ryan Tannehill. You could have said last year that he wasn't attending Texas A&M games to watch Tannehill. He could have been attending to watch Jeff Fuller or Cyrus Gray. But guess what? Ryan Tannehill is the guy they drafted in the first round.
     
  29. ATLFINFAN

    ATLFINFAN Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    5,059
    3,514
    113
    Nov 23, 2007
    How many of those teammates have they interviewed?
     
  30. LiferYank

    LiferYank New Member

    3,088
    765
    0
    Oct 1, 2012
    Its almost comical watching this thread seeing people arguing that they are going to or not going to draft Austin as if they know their opinion is somehow factual.
     
    Boomer likes this.
  31. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

    34,737
    47,799
    113
    Dec 19, 2007
    Birmingham, AL
    It will probably be mute when the Jets draft Austin at 10 and crush everyone's dreams. I have no doubt there is a good chance (I'd say 50/50 depending on how things fall) Austin goes in the top 10.

    But, when all the dust is settled, we still won't know. It may be that after all the checking that they see great potential in the kid but decide to pass on him for various reasons (Or maybe don't see him as the best player at 12 but value further down).

    And, while they may see a scenario that they have to investigate him thoroughly as a possibility at 12, they may also have their eye on 1 or 2 others whom they rate very highly and don't want anyone to know about it.

    Unless we actually see their draft board, I don't see any way to know where they are on this kid. Is he #5 on their overall board? Is he #15, #20? Who knows.
     
  32. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

    24,029
    40,478
    113
    Dec 6, 2007
    I think the facts are there for everyone to see.

    These are facts:
    1. Jeff Ireland and scouts have attended multiple West Virginia games this season.
    2. Jeff Ireland, at least 3 scouts, and at least Dolphins assistant Phil McGeoghan (I've heard Joe Philbin also attended, but that is not confirmed) attended WVU's Pro Day and privately worked out Tavon Austin.
    3. WVU has several draft prospects on their team, but only two have been summoned to Miami for further interviewing. Tavon Austin, and Geno Smith. Smith is a local guy who played his high school ball in Miami and is likely coming to the Dolphins local player day.

    Now, it is my OPINION that based on those FACTS, Miami is very interested in Tavon Austin and is showing quite a bit more interest in him than they are other players.

    Here are some more facts:

    1. The Dolphins interviewed Cordarrelle Patterson at the combine, attended Tennessee's Pro Day, and privately worked out Patterson along with Justin Hunter, Da'Rick Rogers, and Zach Rogers after the UT Pro Day.
    2. At this point, I have heard nothing of Cordarrelle Patterson being invited to Miami for further interviewing to this point. That could all change the closer to the draft we get.
    3. The Dolphins have attended the Pro Days of Missouri and Utah, have privately worked out both Sheldon Richardson and Star Lotulelie, and have summond Sheldon Richarsdon to Miami for further interviewing.
     
    Bpk likes this.
  33. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    I think you mean it will be moot, rather than mute. :)
     
    azfinfanmang likes this.
  34. Mrtree

    Mrtree Juan Huron's agent

    4,932
    4,784
    113
    Dec 8, 2007
    Atlanta, GA
    It's a moo point, it's like a cows opinion.

    Ok I'm frigging lame quoting Friends in a football forum but I couldn't help it.
     
    Bpk and Anonymous like this.
  35. KB21

    KB21 Almost Never Wrong Club Member

    24,029
    40,478
    113
    Dec 6, 2007
    If history is any indication, they will get a player they have shown considerable interest in. They just don't draft guys that they haven't interviewed or worked out privately.
     
  36. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    79,599
    159,162
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    Several. Stedman Bailey and Geno Smith, at the least.

    And to his point, there's also this tendency to not only pretend that Tavon Austin is the only draftable player on West Virginia, there's also a tendency to pretend that any time a Dolphins representative was watching a West Virginia game, they couldn't have possibly been there to look at players on the other team.

    Jeff Ireland was at the Pinstripe Bowl to watch West Virginia and Syracuse. He couldn't POSSIBLY have been there to see Ryan Nassib, Geno Smith, Stedman Bailey, Shamarko Thomas, Justin Pugh, Alec Lemon, Brandon Sharpe, Deon Goggins, Marcus Sales, Terence Garvin or Joe Madsen. Had to just be Tavon Austin, amirite?
     
    Mile High Fin, Bpk and azfinfanmang like this.
  37. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

    72,252
    43,684
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    I'd totally be on board with Austin, but I think Bailey is the forgotten man in all this take of scouting.

    - He's a Miami native.
    - He's said he's talked to the Dolphins
    - Its if he was built by Green Bay Packers WR Labs, Inc.
    - He can play any WR position.
    - He is the Russell Wilson of WRs this year.
     
    Bpk, azfinfanmang and dWreck like this.
  38. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    79,599
    159,162
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    They'll get a player they've shown interest in but if history is any indication not a player that they've shown the most interest in. They saw and met with Ryan Mallett like 5 times or something ridiculous like that and they wouldn't even draft him at the end of the 2nd round. In fact I can't recall a single player they took that they met with as much as you're describing with Tavon.
     
  39. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    79,599
    159,162
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    If I could write that line in a neon blinking lights Vegas style, I would.
     
    Bpk and Fin D like this.
  40. dWreck

    dWreck formerly dcaf

    5,200
    2,975
    113
    Oct 23, 2011
    Sebring, FL
    whats baileys size like in comparison to TA?
     

Share This Page