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Florio: Ross could sell the team if referendum fails

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Serpico Jones, Apr 7, 2013.

  1. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    I could swear I read that Broward is not interested in giving the Dolphins anything. Considering that Dolphins stadium is only about a quarter mile from the dade/broward line, it would be in their best interest to offer to help now because it would be so much cheaper for them.
     
    Da 'Fins likes this.
  2. ASOT

    ASOT New Member

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    The numbers just don't bear this out. In most of those cities when their team sucks, they have empty seats.
     
  3. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    Florio's "reporting" has been as bad as La Canfora's this offseason.
     
  4. Samphin

    Samphin Κακό σκυλί ψόφο δεν έχει

    Oakland is lucky to get 20,000 to their games. I should know...I go just about every week. Your whole argument is delayed on that point alone.
     
    Ozzy likes this.
  5. toto

    toto Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Right. But if it passes, there will be a contract in place that keeps the Dolphins in Miami for the next 15-20 years...
     
  6. If Miami/Dade wants to build Ross a new stadium then they should do it with their money only. Use county funds not state funds or make it a statewide vote.
     
  7. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    It seem to change a little each time I read it but from what I gathered it is a tax relief they're asking for. Something like 3 million a year for the next 30 years. So they're really asking to be able to keep their money. Yes lts money that the state could use on other things but its not a bad deal for the state. Especially since this team has never received anything from the state in 45 plus seasons.
     
    shula_guy likes this.
  8. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    That's because their owners are too cheap to buy up the remaining tickets like Ross does.....

    If he didn't, Miami would be right there in the lead....
     
  9. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    He has a point though with KC and Cleveland...hell I guarantee Buffalo's attendance is better than Miami's....
     
  10. If sun life stadiun had the same seating capacity as Oaklands stadium, Ross would not need to buy tickets,
     
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  11. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    Buffalo has had several blackouts the past few years. Their attendance has been ****.
     
    Ozzy likes this.
  12. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    The Miami-FTL-WP Metropolitan area has 5.5 M people, the 8th most populous area in the U.S.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miami_metropolitan_area

    The Buffalo-Niagara area has 1.1 M people.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo–Niagara_Falls_metropolitan_area

    Since 2008, Miami and Buffalo have been mediocre teams (but Miami is +9 in wins over that span):
    Miami - 11-5; 7-9; 7-9; 6-10; 7-9
    Buffalo - 7-9; 6-10; 4-12; 6-10; 6-10

    Respective attendance by stadium percentage each year (and respective rankings in the league) - Buffalo, then Miami:

    2008 - 97.7% (16th) // 87.1% (31st)
    2009 - 95.9 (22) // 89.9 (27)
    2010 - 86.5 (29) // 90.1 (26)
    2011 - 85.8 (29) // 81.0 (31)
    2012 - 88.9 (26) // 76.3 (32 - last)

    Kansas City has a far worse record than either of those teams (going 2-14 twice and 4-12 once in those seasons) but has had a better attendance record than Miami (a couple of years worse but overall better). Including last season when they went 2-14!

    There is no doubt that attendance is a function of several factors - including the team's record. Yet, there are other factors as well (surrounding culture - interest in football, economy, stadium, weather, etc.). The economies of Buffalo and KC are not better than the Miami area - esp. given population differentials.

    Nashville has a metro area pop. of 1.6 M. They had one solid winning season in 2008 (13-3) but have otherwise been hovering in the 6-10 to 9-7 range the last 4 seasons. All five years their % of stadium capacity has remained exactly the same: 100%. Nashville has a very good economic situation but then again, less than 1/3 of the population of South Florida.

    I think if Ross moved the stands significantly closer on one side; enhanced some box seating; reduced the capacity to around 72K and put roofs over the upper deck (as it look like in the diagrams) that would significantly help make the stadium louder; closer to full capacity (which can make a difference in fan interest, believe it or not - if you are in a venue that holds 20K and it is jam packed, that's way more invigorating and has greater drawing power than a venue that holds 50K and has 25K attending).

    It's amazing what a packed crowd does to one's emotional perspective versus a sparse crowd - regardless of venue size (both in terms of the actual session and in terms of the desire to return).

    And, that too can have an impact on the players. A refurbished venue; with a decent team; fans filling the seats; a louder stadium; all those things can make a difference in 1-2 games a season at home - or more overall if a team gets some momentum and belief - and in the NFL that can mean the difference between making the playoffs, winning a division, or selecting at 15 in the next draft.

    If the voters passed this bill (I have my doubts it will pass because of the way people perceive "billionaires") - and Ross made effective changes (I'm still a bit uncertain about that), I think we would see the Dolphins remain in SoFla for decades and I think we'd see a real difference in home games in terms of attendance and interest. If it doesn't pass, it's going to be deflating for a number of reasons. And, I think it at that point all bets are off for knowing the future of the team in that area.
     
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  13. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Yes, and they still bring in more fans than Miami. Either way, Buffalo as a viable football market is very much in question.
     
  14. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Thank you for putting things into much better perspective than I could..

    I would only add that on the games that we do have somewhat of a decent turnout, it's because of the other teams fans, for which there is no statistical data for.
     
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  15. the 23rd

    the 23rd a.k.a. Rio

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  16. toto

    toto Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Omar Kelly is reporting that Ross won't move the team. I totally believe that.

    But Florios report/speculation was that Ross might sell the team if the stadium deal doesn't happen and thet the new owner might move the team!
     
  17. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Well Gimenez and the etam have agreed to the "framework" of a deal, so I presume we'll know the dtails in the enxt day or two.

    While I'm still philosophically opposed to these stadium deals, if Gimenez, who was elected almost solely due to his objections to the Marlins stadium, is fully for this, then perhaps I need to look a little more closely.

    I presume that the guy wouldn't support a deal unless he thought it would both pass, and not hurt him politically.
     
  18. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    And selling the team and moving the team are two different things...Ross may tire of the lack of local support, politically and financially and sell the team...that doesn't mean it'll be moving, but it could mean that...
     
  19. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    I doubt any of the officials will come out with their opinion on the deal.
     
  20. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Those numbers begin with the economy nosediving.

    I cannot stress enough that our attendance is worse than places like Buffalo and Green Bay because there is a lot more to do in Miami that competes for the entertainment budget.

    The beach alone is probably the single biggest competition and its a fraction of the cost of Dolphin game for the average person/group/family.

    If the team wins, that makes the competition tighter and going to games more attractive for people and that means a more dedicated fanbase intent on providing a winning atmosphere. That's why I don't understand this constant argument going on. People are acting as if winning and attendance are a chicken or egg riddle. Its not.

    In Miami, to fill seats you have to win. Not because the fans care less or are somehow damaged, but because there is more competition for the entertainment dollar. Buffalo, KC, GB, etc. offer nothing other than getting pregnant as a way to pass the time during football season, so there the team doesn't have to be good to have better attendance than us. In NYC, they have simply the most amount of people and are pulling from NJ on top of it.

    In the same vein, crowd noise and interaction absolutely have an affect on the game and players. Is it the difference between winning by 3 or 20? No. But it can certainly fire players up or tear them down. The human animal is verifiably and inarguably affected by crowd noise, lights, spectacle, etc.
     
  21. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    If they set the referrendum, it's pretty obvious that they approve of the deal.
     
  22. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    "Some believe" is code for "I believe it, so I'm going to present my opinion as representative of an unnamed group."
     
  23. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Really? I think they're going to maintain that it should be up to the people. Don't think they want to take a position either way.

    Going to be interesting to see this unfold. I'm pretty confident its going to be approved.
     
  24. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Don't know about that, unless the Mayor gets behind the deal he negotiated. Biggest thing to consider, taking whether or not it's a good idea out of the equation, is that you're talking about a special county election in the middle of May. What could the turnout possibly be for this things? 10%? This is where the Fins organzied effort could help them, even though there may be no really grass roots support for the referrendum. If they can get enough people to the polls, they can win. I'm sure they already have strategies on doing this, and I'm sure cash will flow freely to pastors, community eladers, etc. to get people there.
     

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