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[Merged] Dolphins and County agree on framework for stadium deal...

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by CANEPHINS, Apr 8, 2013.

  1. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

  2. Sumlit

    Sumlit Well-Known Member

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    Oh yeah, I'm sure the extent of the hose down by the Marlins is far more lengthy than just the construction cost. Still, 3 billion in interest owed? That just seems too much.

    Again, the screw up could very well be this big. I just find those numbers a little hard to swallow.
     
  3. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    I'm having trouble verifying that $3 billion dollar figure the Forbes dude seemingly pulled out of his butt, but the Herald article provides a little more clarity, given that the hotel money won't come into the picture until around 2026.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Sumlit

    Sumlit Well-Known Member

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    I still don't get that. Even if the county pays absolutely zero interest on that 91M from 2009 to 2026, and lets say they borrowed on 10% annual interest (total arbitrary number), by 2026 that debt would have risen to 460M.

    I also don't understand how it takes the county 36 years to pay a debt of 91M, and also what does it mean the money doesn't kick in until 2026. Do they only pay minimum payment until then? Do they still at least pay the interest until then? and if so, in 2026 the dept is still 91M and it can be killed quickly instead of spending a further 19 years to pay a 91M debt.

    I don't get it.
     
  5. FinNasty

    FinNasty Alabama don’t want this... Staff Member Club Member

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    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

    What else do you want the guy to do beside foot the entire bill? The city will benefit too... so it makes sense if they at least help contribute a little. Ross is picking up most of the tab. Just chip in and get this thing done...
     
    djphinfan likes this.
  6. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    For the record, I'm trusting Ross and the Dolphins front office and their plan, much more than Loria his merry band of thieves.
     
    Ozzy likes this.
  7. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    Actually it was not because they didnt want any part of it. They were not in any hurry and the governor said he would like to see if it can get a favorable vote in dade county.

    There is still a slight change that it can happen with an unfavorable vote but it would have to be really close.
     
  8. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    Any down seasons in tourism and the money owed for each year, if the bed tax is not enough, is paid by county taxpayers. Not a big chance it will happen but the bills have to be paid one way or another.
     
    ASOT and Sumlit like this.
  9. Sumlit

    Sumlit Well-Known Member

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    That's not saying much. At this point i'd trust Bernei Madoff more than the Loria group.
     
  10. Sumlit

    Sumlit Well-Known Member

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    Totally understood and an acceptable concern. However again that falls on the politicians to factor a down year when they create their deals.
     
  11. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    That's how I read it. But it only totals 90 million. The rest comes from a hotel bed tax.
     
  12. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    I'm sure they do their homework when it comes to installing another bed tax. That's why I said not a big chance it will ever happen.
     
  13. Ozzy

    Ozzy Premium Member Luxury Box

    It's always in their best interest to support things like this. They're the ones who gain or lose the most from it.
     
  14. CANDolphan

    CANDolphan Well-Known Member

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    As someone who was adamantly opposed to this thing I gotta say... Ross is being incredibly reasonable here.
     
    djphinfan likes this.
  15. gafinfan

    gafinfan gunner Club Member

    Your quote
    That is your quote, taken word for word. Missunderstanding the point you are trying to get across, mebby. Misquote, I beg to differ.

    While I can understand your complaint against the media and the way it muddies the water to stir up the masses common sense and understanding of this issue is really all that is needed IMV.

    Of course if our own Congress can't take the time to read a bill before voting on it how can one, in good faith, expect any better from local voters?
     
  16. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I wonder what he means by unprecedented.?.. As in no other front office has ever put in writing that they will pay the money back, and gurantee it in the process?
     
  17. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    bitterness is a powerful common sense destructor.
     
  18. CANEPHINS

    CANEPHINS No Tats & Dreads Allowed

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    30 Year no relocation for Miami Dolphins and Sun Life Stadium...

    http://www.local10.com/sports/Dolph...eal/-/1717082/19671142/-/rra37lz/-/index.html

     
  19. Sumlit

    Sumlit Well-Known Member

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    In your original response, you said that even though the voters don't pay those taxes directly, the money still belongs to the county and therefore the voters should have a say on how it is used. My quote had absolutely nothing about whether the voters should or should not be allowed to decide how this money is used. My original complaint was always about the wording used almost every time public funding is alluded. Hence the misquoting.

    I also saw how you misrepresented me again by cutting my quote after "it's bull****" and changing the meaning of my message.
     
  20. CANEPHINS

    CANEPHINS No Tats & Dreads Allowed

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    Guess nobody cares that the team is set in Miami for the next 30 years at no expense to the tax payers.

    Personally I think is is pretty damn comforting to know that after Ross the team will still be home.
     
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  21. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Of course not, the marlins screwed us remember..nothing else matters..
     
  22. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    Don't see what the problem is with a private organization taking out a private loan from a bank for something like this. You know, like any SME would have to.

    Why the need to strap the public sector with the debt? Will Ross really be around for 30 years?
     
    ASOT likes this.
  23. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Will the Dolphins???? Certainly they don't need the money from Miami. But if you are giving the next owner a choice between playing in a city that will give you $0, and a city that will give you $500M, I know which one I would choose.
     
  24. MikeHoncho

    MikeHoncho -=| Censored |=-

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    Ok. So this is a dance with public funds then. Cool. Got it.

    Hate to linger on the Marlins, but, had I known what happened was going to happen, I'd have gladly let them walk.
     
    ASOT likes this.
  25. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    And that is your choice. I certainly wouldn't support a baseball team getting public funds in my county. I don't like baseball. I absolutely would support a football team. It comes down to what everyone values.

    But when people start suggesting that the Dolphins put forth all the money, it doesnt make sense. There are dozens upon dozens of instances where cities have subsidized stadiums to a much higher degree, with much less coming back to them. An NFL team isn't entitled to public money anymore than the public is entitled to an NFL team in their city.

    ETA: and bringing up the Marlins really just galvanizes the Dolphins' case for this referendum. Miami at one point thought it was a good idea to give Jeff Loria $600M, but now they won't give an NFL team $200M, almost half of which will be in future tax rebates, and all under the assurance that they'll be given a SB, which will bring in at least $50-$100M.
     
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  26. CANEPHINS

    CANEPHINS No Tats & Dreads Allowed

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    Local taxpayers are out nothing, unless you are staying in a hotel. The majority of the hotel/motel tax is paid for by tourists. So there is nothing stopping locals for voting yes on this.

     
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  27. gafinfan

    gafinfan gunner Club Member

    Oh dear, first I'm misquoting and now I'm misrepresenting, a bit testy aren't we?

    They aren't my tax dollars so I'll just bow out before this gets to rambunkus.
     
  28. DearbornDolfan

    DearbornDolfan Active Member

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    The purpose of something like a hotel tax is to offset the cost of infrastructure degradation due to heavy tourism and, where needed, to improve tourism through advertising and tourist-attracting facilities. In theory it is a self-contained and self-perpetuating system. It is not money that is to be spent at the pleasure of residents who are not even subject to the tax under normal circumstances.

    You can be pissed about the Marlins deal. You should be, because it was entirely funded by bonds that will be paid for by direct taxation and given to a team that is, at best, the fifth most relevant sports team in the city. It was a bad buy, period. This deal is an entirely different kettle of fish in every aspect.
     
  29. unifiedtheory

    unifiedtheory Sub Pending Luxury Box

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    As someone who is deadset against billionaires freeloading from taxpayers, everything I've read about this so far has changed my opinion on the whole deal.

    I'm still waiting to see the "fine print". It can't be as good a deal as it appears to be?

    Can it?
     
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  30. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Thank you for saying that UT, they have basically said yes to your answer, it is as good as it sounds, yet common sense and fairness keeps going in one ear and out the other of some folks, all because of what a baseball team did to us, it's completely an illogical stance to say no based on that...any city would take this deal in a heartbeat.
     
  31. Alex13

    Alex13 Tua Time !!! Club Member

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    are they still plan to do the renovations this offseason and be ready for week 1 , if this goes through ?
     
  32. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'd like to see the fine print as well, as the deal certainly seems too good to be true.

    Based on what I've read I could support the deal, but I would like the details. For example, if the bed txaes are acting as loan, where is the money coming from up front? The contractors/workers, etc., get paid now. Moreover, interest rates are so low right now, particularly for someone like Ross, why even leave this to chance with the voters and just go get a loan. Might even be cheaper over the long run since this public money apparently isn't free.
     
  33. PhinishLine

    PhinishLine Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Most private organizations don't generate a considerable amount of revenue for the body to which loans it the money aside from any interest. Also, most banks certainly don't receive revenue from the private organization after the loan is paid. As long as the Dolphins are in So. Fla, the area will continue to see revenue from events in addition to the money paid back in full from the owner.
     
  34. CANEPHINS

    CANEPHINS No Tats & Dreads Allowed

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    That is impossible.

     
  35. ASOT

    ASOT New Member

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    No it doesn't. I was starting to lean in favor of this, but after hearing Norman Brahman this morning on Joe Rose's show, forget it. Norman said he met with Dee & Ross and Brahman said that Ross (who is the 83rd richest man in the US) admitted to him he can afford it, but that he was just trying to get the public to pay for it. If there is truth in that, and I believe it, then JUST SAY NO.

    1st I am not even sure this will get out of the state legislature, which it has to happen before any public vote.
     
  36. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Yes, pretty much how Stephen Ross has become a billionaire in real estate.
     
  37. ASOT

    ASOT New Member

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    by the way, on the day that the state legislature is to vote on the Dolphins vote (whether to allow it or not), they also will have in front of them, a bill to CUT Jackson Memorial Hospital funding by the state to the tune of $ 28 million.

    So less state funding for a hospital that takes care of the uninsured working poor, and $ 200 million for a multi-billionaire, that is the 83rd richest man in the US.

    Seriously ?
     
  38. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    He's still getting a subsidy. The subsidy is incremental and over a 30 year period though. The up front money is coming from Ross. He makes it back by the value of the team increasing.
     
  39. ASOT

    ASOT New Member

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    Wow, how Marie Antoinette of you.
     
  40. ASOT

    ASOT New Member

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    By the way, this tax is not on the hotels on Miami Beach, but on MAINLAND ONLY hotels and motels.

    So anytime you need to use a hotel/motel in the city, you are stuck paying the tax.

    Case in point, a few years ago, I needed to have my home tented for termites. The only relative close enough to house our family would have been my brother, and he lives in Parkland. My wife & I had to go to work the next day in Miami-Dade, and our kids had to go to school in Miami that morning. The only solution was to get a hotel room for a night.

    That means it's not a tourist paying that tax, that would be MYSELF.

    My scenario happens all the time. Local mainlaind hotels/motels do not deal mostly in tourist trade, but lots of times either in locals for reasons just like mine or businessmen. That is increasing the cost of doing business in Miami, and makes it less attractive for people to do business here.

    Also this taxing of mainland hotels will be more subject to economic booms and busts, because it will be based more on business trade than tourist trade business, and thus harder to collect in lean years. That shortfall will have to come from somewhere and more than likely it will be from the general tax fund....the fund that pays for school teachers, policemen, firemen, etc.
     

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