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Thinking we need to trade up for Dee Milliner

Discussion in 'NFL Draft Forum' started by CANEPHINS, Apr 8, 2013.

  1. CANEPHINS

    CANEPHINS No Tats & Dreads Allowed

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    Sports Science put him under the microscope and if his skills translate in the NFL...watch out! I am firmly in the camp that I think we need to trade up to snag him. We can get an OL later.

    http://www.al.com/alabamafootball/index.ssf/2013/04/espns_sports_science_puts_alab.html

     
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  2. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    If Miami somehow pulls him in, I am going to have a nervous breakdown in a good way.....

    Miami hasn't had a guy coming out of the draft with the amount of pure talent as DM in God knows how long....
     
  3. CANDolphan

    CANDolphan Well-Known Member

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    In my mind Milliner is a hair below Joe Haden coming out (simply because I love love Haden's run stop ability) but overall I'd have no problem with Miami going up to #6 to grab him
     
  4. sloppyjoer

    sloppyjoer New Member

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    I'd be good with that. Addresses a need, and we can score a potential winner here.
     
  5. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    Haden is a fine tackler, but I think Milner is all around a more technically sound prospect. Like I said before he looks better than Claiborne did imo coming out.

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
     
  6. Bpk

    Bpk Premium Member Luxury Box

    I don't want us to move up for Milliner... or a CB period.

    1) Milliner is not the next Revis
    2) THe difference to us in winning and losing between having a 1st vs 2nd round CB is not enough to sacrifice picks elsewhere in a deep draft.
     
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  7. Fin-Omenal

    Fin-Omenal Initiated

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    I respect your opinion you know that, but keep in mind Revis wasn't as good of a prospect coming out as a lot of guys over the years, he just developed very very well.

    Imo that's not something we really know.

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  8. dWreck

    dWreck formerly dcaf

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    Well, at the very least, I think this is a more plausible scenario than going up to 3 for Lane.

    I wouldn't be too upset with us doing this, because the kid is good, but i'd prefer us to not trade up at all. As Barry touched on its a very deep draft and you don't really want to give up all those picks plus a first in a draft like this. Is the significance between DM and someone a bit later that huge? No one knows for sure yet, but im not sure the cost in picks is worth it. One thing I do know is that our spot at #12 blows this year. Its in the threshold between projected 'top 10-15' and 'the rest' in a draft where there are really no super elite prospects.
     
  9. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    I think this observation makes a great point and is the reason I'd be greatly disappointed if we traded up for a CB. In fact, I simply don't want a CB in round 1. I want either a WR (Austin) or an OL. I'd potentially take a front 7 player who can get to the QB, but I'm not sold on any of the DE/OLB players at 12. I'd only trade down (to 18-20) before getting one of those.

    Then there is this - from Chase Stuart at Football Perspective, who has put out, imo, a better draft value chart based on actual value of draft picks over time (it ostensibly notes that if teams go by the common value chart - which most stay somewhat close to) trading up is a mistake - one loses value (for the most part). The only reason for doing so is if one sees a player of supreme value who is a team changing player (like a QB or a player who is going to dominate the game). Milliner is not that guy. In fact, no one in this draft is that guy.

    To illustrate - the old chart requires (at minimum) us giving up our second 2nd round pick (#54) and possibly more, if we were to trade up to #6 with Cleveland, for example, to get Milliner. But, this value chart (and I think there are good reasons for his valuations) - argues the value of moving from 12 to 6 in round 1 is only worth a 4th rounder (our #111) from an all around value basis.

     
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  10. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I think I'm starting to feel more likely to want to trade down than up. Or rather maybe trade down at 12 and trade up from 42 simultaneously.

    For instance, if we could trade #12 and #42 to the St. Louis Rams for picks #16 and #22, that would be ideal. But of course they wouldn't do that, there's still 100 point difference in our favor in that trade. You'd have to toss them our 4th rounder (#111) or perhaps a future 3rd. I'd strongly consider it.

    I mean imagine if you could pick up Cornellius Carradine and D.J. Hayden at those picks, then pick up Devin Taylor or Cornelius Washington in the late-2nd, and you'd still be able to pick up guys like Xavier Nixon or Brennan Williams at tackle in the 3rd round, as well as a Marquise Goodwin or Stedman Bailey. In the 4th round you could continue addressing the OL position with a Hugh Thornton. That leaves off the tight end, safety, defensive tackle and tailback positions...but let's face it, the Dolphins have not put themselves in position to address every need this off season. They're going to have to punt on some questions.

    Starting in the 5th round you can start addressing some of those areas with gambles based on who falls. I'd have Mike Gilislee, Lonnie Pryor and Dennis Johnson highlighted at tailback in the 5th to see if one of them fell. If not, maybe look for a Zac Stacy in the 7th. At tight end you're looking to see if Chris Gragg or Joseph Fauria fall to you in the 5th, if not you start thinking about Mychal Rivera, Phil Lutzenkirchen and Justice Cunningham in the 7th. Perhaps Levine Toilolo or Michael Williams as blocking specialists. You would jump all over Hugh Thornton if he somehow made it to your pick in the 5th, but if not you may be faced with punting the position. You're going to take a strong look at Kwame Geathers in the 5th. You're going to take a strong look at Vince Williams in the 7th. You'll take a look at Duke Williams and Josh Evans in the 5th, or Don Jones or Alonzo Tweedy in the 7th.

    Realistically, if I came out of those 5th and 7th rounds with Joseph Fauria, Dennis Johnson, Vince Williams, Alonzo Tweedy and Peter Lalich...to go along with Cornellius Carradine, D.J. Hayden, Devin Taylor, Brennan Williams, Marquise Goodwin and Hugh Thornton...that's a hell of a draft. This assumes I would have given up next year's 3rd to the Rams in order to make the 12/42 for 16/22 swap more enticing. That would be at least 5 players I see as starters.
     
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  11. pocoloco

    pocoloco I'm your huckleberry Club Member

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    I'm all in favor of a trade down from 12. Having Star drop really improves our chances. If we get another second, we'd really be cooking with fire.

    Honestly, I believe one of these three guys will be at 16-18 and the Dolphins have shown at least some interest in each; Jarvis Jones, Tavon Austin, Kenny Vaccaro, Alec Ogletree. Plus you probably have Desmond Trufant, Jonathan Banks and Menelik Watson sitting there as reach picks... hell you could trade down again into the mid-late 20s and get DJ Hayden, Banks or Watson.

    Lawrence Okoye, as a total tangent, has me intrigued. He is a British discus olympian and rugby player who I understand worked out VERY well recently (though not for us) He projects to the defensive line and is a reach to be drafted. I doubt he deserves his own thread.
    http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/eye-on-football/22028209/british-discus-recordholder-lawrence-okoye-impresses-at-regional-combine
     
  12. surferosa

    surferosa Balance and Vision

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    I wonder if teams are using this chart (or some internal proprietary derivative of it). I have no problem trading up if the cost is a fourth rounder, but not if its costs a second.
     
  13. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    They're not. Every year you can track the compensation given up in various trades and it's pretty close to the traditional chart, with some variations that befit the leverage of the two teams.
     
  14. surferosa

    surferosa Balance and Vision

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    Have you taken a look at Georgia DT Abry Jones? IMO he represents the most value of all the Goergia DT's and is being overlooked by many draftniks. He was a 5* recruit coming out of H.S. and is one of several players who was forced to play a new position when Richt/Grantham switched to a 3-4. His agility at 313 pounds landed him at DE, but he could be very disruptive as a 4-3 DT as well. Hes powerful (30 reps), possess long arms and packs a punch. He also is scheme flexible and has played all over the line. In 2011, he managed 50 tackles from the end position on a part-time, rotational basis. His 2012 season was cut short with an ankle injury which shelved him for the season. The DEF definitelty missed him (particularly in the second half vs Alabama).

    Hes not a jumbo DT in the mold of Jenkins or Geathers but would look great behind Starks as both a run stuffer and gap penetrator.
     
  15. surferosa

    surferosa Balance and Vision

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    ugh.
     

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