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[Merged] Dolphins and County agree on framework for stadium deal...

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by CANEPHINS, Apr 8, 2013.

  1. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

    What happens to any monies collected in excess of the estimates?
     
  2. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Not certain, but I assume they go into the general fund.
     
    smahtaz likes this.
  3. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Another thing to keep in mind is that there's an additional 25% of the TDT that will go to something that presumably would entice a group of voters.
     
  4. schmolioot

    schmolioot Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    You may be correct. Have to read it again.

    Apparently the par value referenced in Section 3 is the amount the Dolphibs expect to be able to borrow based on the public contribution.
     
  5. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Pretty sure the par value is the face value of the bonds that could be issued. The Dolphins can take up to $120M of the TDT money upfront.
     
  6. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    This debate has got me all fu&$ed up, just gonna trust stringer on this because I don't think the other side is looking at the improvements from a big picture perspective and what it potentially means from a world tourism angle, what it means to have the dolphins secured in this town for the next 30, and what the renovations mean to the team and culture.
     
  7. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    "The Colts are doing it because they can, and because the city is willing to do whatever needs to be done to keep the local billionaire happy. Because if the local billionaire isn’t happy, he eventually may load up the Mayflowers and go to a city that will make him happy.

    And that’s all you need to know about stadium economics."

    Miami resident at the poll booth..uhhhhh, what's this, the dolphins want 150 million from the community...fu&$ that man...no.
     
  8. ASOT

    ASOT New Member

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    based on what ? A team that has lost a of its lure and fanbase in the last 10 years, coupled with an aging stadium that needs renovation ? Personally I would be surprised if he got $ 900 million. I think he overpaid by at least $ 300 million initially.
     
  9. ASOT

    ASOT New Member

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    If Ross signs that deal then is an idiot no matter what the penalty is. It also shows how far he will go to get the public to pay for this, which leads me to really question why he would go this far. There has to be something more to it.

    After the Marlins Park disaster I don't trust any billionaire businessmen anymore. Done with that.
     
  10. ASOT

    ASOT New Member

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    We heard all of this rhetoric before with Loria and Marlins Park, and look what happened there. I don't buy it, and won't buy it. Ross needs to use his own money, and that's it.
     
  11. ASOT

    ASOT New Member

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    Loria said he lost money too, and then Deadspin found documents that said he had made $ 50 million in profits. Just saying...........
     
  12. ASOT

    ASOT New Member

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    Exactly, its from the Jeffrey Loria School of Fool those stupid commisioners.
     
  13. ASOT

    ASOT New Member

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    Well I hope those commisioners and County Mayor enjoyed their time in office, because the last time that happened (after Marlins Park), the Mayor and several of them lost their jobs in a recall special election.
     
  14. ASOT

    ASOT New Member

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    As much publicity and tv time this will get, I think you are completely wrong. Special by-elections usually get a 20-25% turnout. I can see this at 45-50% easy since this will be about taxes and pocketbook issues get people's attention.
     
  15. ASOT

    ASOT New Member

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    This will be the next hurdle, getting Tallahassee to agree to it. If Rep. Joe Redneck from Tampa sees doing this and helping the Miami Dolphins get a Super Bowl or NCAA Championship game that could be awarded to his Tampa Bay area, he probably will be inclined to vote against it. Also there is a great deal of redneck animosity in the rest of the State of Florida towards Miami, and this hatred could come out in any vote perceived as helping those "GD Cubans down there in Mi-am-ah". Those of you who don't live here, have no idea how much they hate Miami. For the life of me I can't understand why as Miami-Dade has been subsidizing the state for years. For every dollar we send to Tallahassee we get only about 67¢ back.
     
  16. ASOT

    ASOT New Member

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    It's the Marlins deal all over again. And the only ones who will pay are the long suffering poor people of Miami-Dade County. Somehow the tourism dollars will fall short and that means the funds will be pulled from the general fund and then county jobs will be cut - policemen, firemen, a fire station closes, the county hospital cuts nurses, etc.....
     
  17. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    This is just patently false. There cannot be funds pulled from the general fund. The plan is explicit in where the funds are drawn from.
     
  18. ASOT

    ASOT New Member

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    That is what they said about the Marlins plan, and now we know that's false too.
     
  19. fins1

    fins1 Sect 145 Row 20

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    The voters in this country are so uniformed it's pathetic.
     
  20. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    I have a hard time believing you have read either plan at this point. The Marlins plan never stated that.
     
  21. Phinastic

    Phinastic Active Member

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    Does anyone know exactly how much this hotel tax will be?
     
  22. siciliansith

    siciliansith Resident Deviant

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    If the referendum passes and the law is changed. There will be a 1% increase in the Miami-Dade hotel tax. 7% up from current 6%. This doesn't include sales tax . thsis is only the hotel tax. all taxes ive heard are around 13% which is pretty standard or low in tourist areas.

    My opinion is the Phins are being very open and straight with this and I hope it passes.
     
  23. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Jeff Loria never made the Marlins books available for anyone to see. He simply claimed that the team was losing money, but never turned over the books to prove his claim. The Dolphins provided actual evidence.

    With all due respect, it seems that your opinion on this deal is based off being misled by the Marlins deal. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but I would hope you would judge the Dolphins deal on its own merits, not anything related to the Marlins.
     
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  24. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    "In a fitting finale to its 25th Anniversary Season, Sun Life Stadium celebrated the New Year with more than 100,000 visitors and yet another exciting championship game. Now, it’s time to set our sights on the future of world-class events in Miami-Dade. Miami-Dade County is officially “on the clock” for the 50th Anniversary Super Bowl, future college championship games, and the 2019 Pan-Am Games. In order to keep our community competitive, I stand ready to invest in Miami-Dade and modernize Sun Life Stadium, doing so with respect for my fellow citizens and adherence to the following principles:

    We Promise To Approach This Partnership Differently. We are willing to invest more, pledge more, and return more to the community and to our fans.

    Private Funds Will Pay For The Majority Of Stadium Construction Costs. We guarantee that private investment will cover the majority of the costs, including possible overruns, associated with improving Sun Life Stadium.

    No Tax Increase For Miami-Dade Residents. Any request for a public investment will NOT include a request for taxes on residents of Miami-Dade.

    Local Jobs. We will create thousands of local jobs by hiring contractors, subcontractors, and vendors from Miami-Dade County.
    World-Class Facility. Miami-Dade deserves a first-class facility and a strong home-field advantage. We will improve sight lines, move seats closer to the field, install HD lighting, and make Sun Life Stadium an electric environment for the Dolphins, Hurricanes, and international soccer.

    Securing The Future Of The Franchise. For 47 seasons, the Dolphins have been a Miami tradition. We will commit to play at a modernized Sun Life Stadium through at least 2034.

    Sun Life Stadium will not only be a more exciting, comfortable, and entertaining facility for the hundreds of thousands of fans who enjoy Dolphins, Hurricanes, and Orange Bowl games, it will also offer Miami-Dade a valuable asset that can compete for elite events, create jobs, generate revenue for local businesses, and ensure that the world keeps its eyes on us.

    Together, we can inspire a better future for Miami-Dade…the right way.

    Sincerely,

    Stephen Ross
    Owner, Miami Dolphins

    " Miami-Dade deserves a first-class facility and a strong home-field advantage. We will improve sight lines, move seats closer to the field, install HD lighting, and make Sun Life Stadium an electric environment for the Dolphins, Hurricanes, and international soccer. "

    "Strong home field advantage..move seats closer to the field".. "An electric environment"

    Sounds like they've had a discussion or two about the disadvantage the stadium presents to a true home field advantage, sounds to me like they understand that filling seats is not the cure.



    "Sun Life Stadium will not only be a more exciting, comfortable, and entertaining facility for the hundreds of thousands of fans who enjoy Dolphins, Hurricanes, and Orange Bowl games, it will also offer Miami-Dade a valuable asset that can compete for elite events, create jobs, generate revenue for local businesses, and ensure that the world keeps its eyes on us."

    Like how they included the hurricanes, another program that has suffered the consequences from going to one extreme to the morgue..

    " to ensure that the world keeps its eyes on us"

    This is the one that a lot if folks cannot conceptualize..they can't see the money that comes from a having a cool world perspective..

    The dolphins, the canes, the cultures of both programs, the cities image, they all will continue to deteriote if Ross doesn't fund it himself, yeah, I've given up on ignorant residents getting it done.
     
  25. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    Holy crap this gets weirder and weirder. So evidently the deadline to register for voting on this referendum is MONDAY?!?

    So if you don't register tomorrow, you don't vote. That's incredible. The commission only JUST approved this referendum did they not?

    Am I missing something here? Are people that voted in the last election automatically registered?
     
  26. Sumlit

    Sumlit Well-Known Member

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    I believe if you are already a Miami-Dade registered voter, you can just show up to vote with ID. This deadline is just for people who are not registered as Miami-Dade voters, or have to make changes to their voters registration.
     
  27. siciliansith

    siciliansith Resident Deviant

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    The referendum is open to all registered voters. To meet voting rules unregistered voters must register by monday if they wish to vote in referendum.

    Now im not sure if this registration timeline is for all Miami=Dade elections or just for this referendum. Basically stating voters must be registered 30 days prior. Thats how i see it
     
  28. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    There is an interview that sedano did on qam did with the mayor that is getting some serious buss as to really understanding what it means for Miami residents to make this happen..sedano taking the ignorant side, the mayor setting him and the record strait,
     
  29. ASOT

    ASOT New Member

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    Looks like the Cubs are going to finally renovate Wrigley.....

    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/city-cubs-push-500-million-042346394--mlb.html

    But this caught my eye in the article.....

     
  30. ASOT

    ASOT New Member

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    yet another snag for the Dolphins. Looks like SB 50 is out......

    http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/05/01/3374784/dolphins-may-concede-state-dollars.html

    By the way, this is your typical "rest of Florida" attitude towards Miami or anything south of Lake Okeechobee.....

    Weatherford is from Wesley Chapel, FL just north of Tampa. Remember I told you a couple of weeks ago, that Tampa area legislators would be protecting their own, and here ya go, he's against it because it will hurt Tampa's chances of landing a future SB.
     
  31. gamblerx

    gamblerx New Member

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    This is Miami-Dade that we're talking about.
     
  32. Frumundah Finnatic

    Frumundah Finnatic U Mad Miami?

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    Ahh all the minorities still getting the good ol boys nervous I see.
     
  33. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Yeah, when your operating income is $30M/yr, then you can get a loan for a new stadium.

    Either way, its apples to oranges. Wrigley Field doesn't bring any marquee events to Chicago. A new stadium isn't benefiting the residents there.
     
  34. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    It is not a 1% increase as you stated. It is actually a 1 cent tax, which will raise the hotel tax from 6 to 7 cents on hotels in Miami-Dade County only. Instead of the 1% increase you seem to think this is, it is actually a 14% increase in the taxes tourist will pay every time they decide to stay in Miam-Dade County, instead of one of the surrounding counties in the South Florida area.

    If your belief was that this was only a 1% tax increase and you were led to this belief based on the comments from the Miami Dolphins. I guess they aren't being as open and honest as you seem to think they are being on this issue.

    A one cent increase in the tax rate certainly doesn't appear to be much, until you realize that this is actually a 14% tax hike. I bet you wouldn't be happy if you were having to pay 14% more taxes to fund a building for a private company.
     
  35. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Which residents of Miami-Dade could possibly be negatively affected by this??? The only ones I can think of would be the hotel industry.
     
  36. Sumlit

    Sumlit Well-Known Member

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    I don't believe you are correct jw. The tourism tax on Miami-Dade excluding Miami Beach and Bal Harbour is 6% tourism tax, plus 7% sales tax. So tourist pay 13% tax when they purchase a room in a hotel. This increase would take it from 6% tourism tax, to 7% tourism tax, and the additional 7% sales tax. For a total of 14% tax when you purchase a room.

    When they say a 1 cent increase, they mean 1% increase. 100 cents on a dollar, 1 cent = 1% of 100. Increase from 6 cents/6% to 7cents/7% tourism tax.
     
  37. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    Just so you realize, I have already early voted FOR the referendum. I voted for it because I want to see the Dolphins remain in South Florida for at least another 30 years. You may not care about the impact a tax increase will have on the hotel industry in South Florida, but perhaps the thousands of people employed in this industry may feel different than you do. Tourist also may decide to stay in the surrounding counties just to avoid paying higher tax rates for their hotel rooms while they are here on vacation.

    I certainly didn't vote for it because I believe any of the other propaganda which has been spread in regards to this being an economic boom for the South Florida economy. I just don't believe it. I don't care about having SB's, college national championship football games, or international soccer matches in South Florida.

    I also don't think governments should be raising taxes to pay for the buildings of private companies, especially for an NFL owner who is worth more than 4 billion dollars. There are several reason I oppose this referendum, but there was one reason only why I voted for it. I want to see the Dolphins remain in South Florida and I'm not sure they will stay here unless we give into the blackmail by the NFL and the Dolphin organization. I don't like it, but I held my nose and voted for it.
     
  38. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    Perhaps you aren't correct. When you raise the rate from 6 cents to 7 cents, you have increased the percentage of the rate by 14%. This is just basic math, I'm certainly not making this up.

    It sounds better when it is being pushed as a 1 cent increase, because many people make the mistake of viewing this as only a 1% increase in the tax rate. Anyone who knows basic math realizes that when you go from a 6 cent tax rate to a 7 cent tax rate, this is not a 1% increase, it is a 14 % increase from the previous rate of 6 cents.

    I certainly understand the rate is only going up one penny if this referendum passes, but I also know this isn't a 1% increase the Dolphins organizations and the politicians want the public to believe.

    As a professor in college told me a long time ago, numbers never lie, but they are easily manipulated for those unwilling to see the truth.
     
  39. Sumlit

    Sumlit Well-Known Member

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    Well it is a 1% increase strictly speaking. It goes from 6% to 7%, that is strictly a 1% difference. That the rate increases 14% is another matter.

    You say it sounds better to say it is a 1 cent increase, or a 1% increase, but it also sounds worse when you say the rate increases by 14%.

    People aren't necessarily going to understand the rate of increase, however they most certainly will understand that the increase is only 1 penny for every dollar.
     
  40. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    Of course it sounds better to state that the increase is only a penny increase in the sales tax. What is sad is that most people really don't understand that this is a 14% increase in the tax rate on a hotel room in Miami-Dade County compared to the tax rates in the surrounding counties.

    I blame this on the fact many people today just don't really understand basic math and that is why most people actually think that this referendum is only going to increase the tax rate by 1% in Miami.
    I also realize the Dolphins and the politicians understand most people aren't smart enough to figure out the actual percentage increase and they are quite happy to have the majority of the voters believing that a one cent increase in the tax rate is only a 1% increase in the overall rate. If they told the truth and admitted that they were asking for a 14% increase in the hotel tax in Miami-Dade, they would have no chance of this referendum passing.

    I want it to pass so the Dolphins will stay in South Florida. I just don't like the fact that they aren't telling the truth when it comes to the actual percentage increase of this tax on the tourist visiting Miami. The fact they are not truthful regarding this real increase just makes be wonder what else they are telling us which isn't true to get this referendum passed by the voters.

    The Marlins promised all these new jobs and stated that the area around the new stadium would see an economic boom after the stadium was opened. Other then the construction workers who helped build the stadium, and a few workers in the stadium, the Marlins stadium has not done any of the positive things for the economy the Marlins organization said it would. There has been no positive economic impact in the area surrounding the stadium and the low attendance and reduction in payroll has been a major negative for the Marlins and the county. The County and the City are now paying off the debts related to funding the stadium and few fans have any real interest in attending games.

    I realize that the Dolphins are not the Marlins, but they have made many of the same promises of jobs and a boom to the area surrounding the stadium. Whether these things come to pass, we will see. I just don't have a lot of faith in the politicians and even the Dolphin organization in following through on these promises once the stadium is renovated. When politicians want your money, they will promise you anything. Once they get it, those promises are no longer important to those politicians, because there isn't much you can do when the promises are forgotten and they have your money. People who want the Dolphins to remain in Miami for another 30 years should vote FOR this referendum. If you are voting FOR it because of the promise of a huge economic impact for the area, you are in for a rude awakening when this huge economic impact fails to materialize. Just my opinion.
     

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