The Mayor sets the record strait on why it's important for Miami to vote Yes..

Something can be a negative consequence that is undesirable, while also being something that can be tolerated. For example, if I got a $5,000 pay cut at work, it might not make me look for another job, but that doesn't mean i'd want to get my pay cut.

Again, I never said that Miami couldn't do without it, just that it'd be bad (or sucky) to see them lose it.

 

Yeah, pretty easy for a team to get a $500M loan when your team consistently sells out every home game.

 

Largely because of people like you who object to the concept of public money for stadiums. Seems like a common feeling among Californians, as there have long been resistance to spending public money to upgrade football stadiums in Oakland and LA, as well as San Diego. The Niners couldn't get a new stadium in SF either and are moving 40 miles away to Santa Clara, which was willing to come up with the money to lure the 49ers there.

Plans have been formulated in San Diego, they just haven't succeeded yet. The Chargers will probably ultimately move to LA. Being a pretty laid-back place, San Diegoans will probably have a collective yawn when they do, much like Los Angelenos did when the Raiders and Rams left.

 

Well considering LA is no closer to building a new stadium then they were 20 years ago, I suspect the Chargers will be in SD for the forseeable future.

But again, if the Super Bowl were so important, and you went without it for more than a decade, surely there would be some kind of economic pain felt that would spur action, no? And I don't even think the Super Bowl is much a part of the Chargers pitch. They need a new stadium for revenue and because Qulalcomm (or whatever its called now is an old dump)

 

I have said all along that as a long time Dolphins fan, I have no problem at all having the tourist hotel tax raised by one penny to pay for this stadium renovation. In fact most Dolphin fans I know feel the same way I do. Of course many of these fans I have known for years and who want to see the improvements at the stadium do not live in Miami-Dade County. They either live in Broward County and several of them live in the Florida Keys. These individuals will have no vote on the outcome of this referendum.

If only Dolphin fans were allowed to vote on the referendum, it would pass easily. Unfortunately the vast majority of the voters who will show up at the polls to vote on the referendum will probably not be Dolphin fans, but instead will be voters who are opposed to any tax increases. They won't care that the tax increase will only affect individuals who happen to stay at hotels in Miami-Dade County.

I hope I am wrong, but I just don't see this referendum passing when it is put on the ballot next month. The Mayor and the Dolphins organization have just a short period of time to educate all the non Dolphin fans why they should vote for this referendum. These same voters recalled the former Mayor of Miami-Dade County because of his support for the Marlins stadium. A miracle could happen and the referendum could pass, but it doesn't look very promising at this time.

 

Personally I could care less if the Super Bowl was ever held in South Florida. The hotels in South Florida are booked around SB time, year in and year out. All the SB really does is raise the rates the hotels charge during SB week. It doesn't really bring more people to South Florida because it is at the height of tourist season in South Florida. It actually prevents many people from coming to South Florida because they don't want to have to pay the higher room rates, or because the SB crowd has tied up most of the rooms. With or without the SB, South Florida is loaded with tourist in January and February.

I can see how a SB might increase tourism for some of the cold weather sites, but it really doesn't do much for the South Florida economy. As you stated, we haven't had one in the last few years and yet the hotels in South Florida have been doing a booming business during the week the SB has been played elsewhere.

My main reason for wanting the referendum to pass has nothing to do with getting Super Bowls, NCAA championship games, or soccer matches. It also has nothing to do with the stadium having a covering, which I actually think is kind of a dumb idea. I have been going to the stadium for years and I am perfectly happy with it, the way it is. The one thing the passing of this referendum will do that I care about is, it will guarantee the Dolphins will remain in South Florida for the next thirty years. That is really all I care about. The rest of the reasons for upgrading the stadium is nothing but BS, as far as I am concerned.

 

Of course the Dolphins won't pay a penny except the upfront money has to come from somewhere right? Basically the upfront money will be paid by the Dolphins Steven Ross.


Personally I think it's a really good deal for both sides.

The county is not on the hook for any of the money and the money the city will make, up until the 26th year will be plentiful.

The Dolphins will get what they want and their value will shoot up as well. Ross' team has done a lot of homework on this deal. A deal where the risks are taken only by The Dolphins themselves.

What I see here is Ross taking lots of chances and if It works out, he won't have to pay very much at all in the long run. That's if they get the NFL to contribute as matching amount

 

It is for either SB 50 or 51

 

The NFL as in all the other owners right? If I were one, I'd be pissed at the way this deal is worded because now many states, counties and cities are going to start asking for similar guarantees from teams for sure. IF IT PASSES

 

Please correct yourself.

 

LOL. now I know where it came from.

It's in NJ. Get you sh/t straight.

 

Very bad argument using San Diego. Their fans are resigned to the fact they will lose the them eventually. Its a matter of when....not if.

And Schmo....regardless of the payback options. Ross has given the county the best option any team has given in the past 20 years. He could be a prick and move the Dolphins somewhere willing to give him a billion stadium like Blank in Atlanta.

But no. He's offering to tie the Dolphins there for 30 more years and put off the start of talks on a new stadium for at least 20 years.

Make no mistake. There are plenty of locations that would hand Ross a billion $ stadium. After L.A. is filled....Toronto will ramp up. It will have a supportive government (hell the 3 levels of government handed the CFL Hamilton Ti-Cats a $160 million new stadium all government funded) and plenty of billionaire owners willing to step up. And its the new #3 North American TV market after New York and Mexico City.

Now don't misconstrue my comments as they will do it. I am just saying...no deal whatsoever leaves the team in limbo...especially when Ross goes to sell. I only mention Toronto as a very willing backer.

 

Of course he/she/they will want a new one, and they will need it. At that time the present one will be over 40 years old, which is about as old as the OB was when the Dolphins left it.

I just don't understand why the need for the public to pay for this ? This is a privately owned stadium and all the proceeds from events there go directly into Ross' pockets. Is there any provision that the county be repaid from parking & concession sales inside the stadium ? Why can't we get a cut of those so the money is benefitting the present taxpayer, who will be allowing the Dolphins to benefit ?

This whole Dog & Pony show, and if it gets knocked down by the public in humiliating fashion (75%+), then what ? Does Ross pay for it himself ? If not then do the threats of moving the team or selling the team start ?

I think the biggest hurdle is the state legislature, who can kill the whole deal if they refuse to hear the bill or hear it and vote it down. I think there could be pressure from Tampa area reps to vote it down, because this Miami renovation could endanger their chances at getting some Super Bowls for Tampa. They have no incentive to vote for it, but a lot to vote against it. There is also the perception that the rest of the state doesn't just hate Miami, but loathes it (but is glad to take the tax revenue it generates) and will stick it to Miami "and those damn Cue-Bans" (said with sarcastic redneck accent) anytime and anywhere they can.

 

Well of course this is the biggest joke of all, Goodell threatening Miami with no Super Bowls because of weather ? Seriously ? I am PRAYING that they get a 16 inch blizzard the night before the Super Bowl next year, and then have Goodell talk about their being no more Super Bowls in Miami.

It'll be so stupid......two cities with perhaps the best winter weather in the entire continental US (Miami and San Diego) on the Super Bowl boycott list.

Only the NFL can be that arrogant.

 

Until the economy busts again, and tourism sinks.

Remember, this is not a tax on hotels on Miami Beach, this is a new tax ONLY on mainland hotels & motels. So no matter how you find a way to support this, it is going to partially be paid by locals & their families and business executives, etc. more than strictly "tourists", by the nature of the tax being levied only on the mainland.

 

Is there any inflation clauses in that debt to be supposedly paid back ? $ 200 million now is not worth what $ 200 million in 30 years will be worth unless you include inflationary increases. I have yet to see that anywhere in anyone's posts or any of the proposed documentation.

 

No NFL team has relocated in nearly 20 years. And the LA stadium is no closer to completion today then it was 20 years ago.

Toronto cannot even sell out one Bills game per year. People in toronto like the NFL, but don't love it. Same thing with London. Teams moving to those cities is unlikely to ever happen regardless of how much Goodell talks about it.

And the deal Ross and Miami came to might be better then some other deals, but at least in other deals (including Marlins Park), the county maintains ownership interest in the land and the stadium. That's not the case here.

You're also overlooking the $90 million in sales tax rebates that is nearly 1/3 of this entire deal which is 100% taxpayer money that could be used right now for schools, police, fire, healthcare, etc.

And again, this whole thing is moot if the legislature doesn't pass the bills so we may be spending a lot of digital ink on something that doesn't matter. But if the legislature passes the bills and people vote for it, then fine. I'm a proponent of direct democracy where feasible and if the people want it, they want it. Wouldn't be the first time, nor will it be the last time that I disagree with the outcome of an election. But such is life in the USA.

I'm not even a Dade County resident so convincing me wouldnt make a difference anyway, though I am a stakeholder as a season ticket holder who's prices are sure to increase if this goes through.

 

Well if the entire thing falls through it sure does open the door for Ross to start getting cozy with Broward officials about a new stadium.

Ross owns Sun Life, but he could propose to sell it to Miami-Dade or the University of Miami or both as co-owners and pursue then with building a new stadium in Broward County.

As for the name, who knows, you could conceiably keep the Miami, but you could just change it to Florida or South Florida Dolphins (I would prefer the latter) and it still be geographically correct. I think the NFL isn't really interested in letting the Miami market go as they have with LA (which if you read between the lines the NFL thinks they have goofed up with not having a team there for 20 years). So I just can't see this market without the Dolphins one way or another. That LA team more than likely will be either Jax or San Diego.

 

What happens if the nfl does not give Miami the next Superbowl?

 

and you are going to add Miami to that list ? Talk about the NFL just being stupid and arrogant if they do that. The two best winter weather cities and you won't go there. It's idiotic but the its the NFL.

 

When are people going to get a clue that ticket sales aren't the main source of income for sports teams ? It's all about that TV, radio and internet money that is driving all things money in sports these days. Notice when the MLB Extra Innings money, and NFL Sunday Ticket money and then the internet money kicked in, is when salaries went up, and revenues jumped up. Ticket sales are a much smaller % of franchise revenue these days.

Didn't you notice that all the new ballparks in MLB are SMALLER than the old ones ? If its ticket revenue then why are they smaller ?

The Cubs are a money making machine and it would be completely obscene for them to take a red cent of public money.

 

Using Toronto is a bad example as well, because everyone knows that the Bills will be going there - its just a matter of time, and they need to build a stadium in Toronto too. Rogers Centre is not NFL worthy.

 

Why residents would be concerned about a hotel bed tax is beyond me. Seems some people just like to complain about anything that has the word "tax" in it.

Thinking the local economy does not get a boost from football games or major sporting events is just silly, if Miami-Dade were to lose the Dolphins there would be a negative effect. Therefore is it so outrageous that the county help finance the deal for the stadium? Especially in a deal that takes such minimal risk?

 

Doesn't the county benefit then from every business located in the county? There are many great restaurants in Miami-Dade that people from Broward and elsewhere visit. Should the county assist with renovations to those restaurants?

And in reality, the county doesn't benefit all that much directly from normal regular season and Dolphins playoff games. Don't know if you've been to the stadium, but there is almost no development around it. No restaurants or bars where people congregate before, during, or after the games. The people that go to the games spend money inside the stadium, which Ross is 100% the beneficiary of.

Obviously, I don't want the Dolphins to move, but it would be more the loss of a beloved entertainment option than something that would affect the county all that much financially.

 

Who cares if it is the main source??? 30k empty seats per game is the difference between making $10M and losing $10M. The Dolphins make a boatload of money from TV, but they also have $110M+ in fixed costs every year, just on players alone. This goes without considering that the Dolphins are one of the only teams in the league that have actually had to pay for a stadium themselves. They're paying $20M every year just in debt service alone.

 

State and local governments provide economic grants to private businesses all the time. Governments come to me all the time trying to get my businesses to relocate, or to lock in deals to stay where they are already located. Whenever you hear a Governor talk about all the jobs they've created in their state, the driving force is almost always grant money.

 

Why exactly are the Bills going to Toronto?

 

What???? The Dolphins are getting a % of the increased tax. If tourism sinks, the Dolphins will end up getting little money. I'm not sure why this is difficult to grasp. The county literally has no chance of incurring any debt on this deal.

 

The deal is void if the NFL does not award Miami a SB in May.

 

How did I know you guys would lamely try to use the Bills in Toronto argument without understanding what's going on there at all.

You know why no team has moved in 20 years schmolioot? Because governments always come to agreements with the teams someway/some how.

The reason the games don't sell out in Toronto? 25% of the Bills fan base already comes from Southern Ontario. They go to the Bills games that average $51 a ticket. Rogers was gouging folks for an average cost of $183 for what usually were poor match ups. The fans here aren't stupid. The fact it's held in a baseball stadium with absolutely no tailgating. Plus Toronto already has it's fair share of loser teams they already support in the Jays/Leafs/Raptors and Toronto FC *ducks*. Trying to slip a 5th loser in there that isn't even Toronto's team.....was never going to fly. Not to mention Toronto has a LOT of other entertainment options. It has a huge arts scene with plays/concerts etc. The fanbase here is a huge melting pot of different teams so that makes up your anti-bills fans right there. My family alone consists of myself and my dad (Dolphins), Aunts (Bills), Uncles (49'ers, Vikings, Chiefs and Dolphins), Cousins (Titans, Steelers, Bills).

Plus there has been bad media on it since the get go since most folks around here want their own team. Buffalo played pre-season games up here before these exclusive deals and drew around 55,000 per. Despite the bad publicity...outside of the Seattle game the attendance has still been over 50,000 despite the backlash/prices etc (Avg Dolphins home game in 2012....57,000). Someone's making money though as Ralph and Rogers extended that deal.

Asot. Ralph is just trying to pull a Leafs/Sabres bit and claim Southern Ontario as Bills territory. He signed a 10 year extension (With the state paying $51 million and the county adding $41 million. (What do you know...more government money) for stadium upgrades with a $400 million penalty. So that's out....although there is 7 year point where that option goes down to $29 million...but that'll probably just be used to threaten another extension for more cash for the stadium.

Really the only thing slowing down a future Toronto team..........is this never ending L.A. saga. Once that's clear...then focus will move to Toronto where Goodell last year had to backtrack on statements he made about expansion when he stated that "if the NFL puts a team in Los Angeles, it is probable the league would expand to 34 franchises.".

Anyways..didn't mean to go off in a Toronto tangent. The only point I was trying to make is that if Ross doesn't get this deal. It's going to throw the Dolphins future into doubt. Ross has poured a lot of money in already. I can't see him financing things entirely himself. Which means he'll cut bait and sell when he can....and who knows what a new owner does. Could get an owner who demands an all new stadium. So basically the gist was...take the deal and run with 30 years of the Dolphins staying in Miami. Much better then the alternative.

 

What does that mean Stringer. Miami does not give Ross any money without a superbowl deal in place first or that Ross isnt obligated to the terms of the deal being proposed if they dont award the superbowl to them later?

 

Miami does not give Ross any money.

 

My biggest problem with the whole deal is, if its sch a great deal, and the taxpayers and County have no risk, then why do we have to be involved at all ? Why doesn't Ross just do it himself. Something smells there and doesn't pass the test. And the people jumping all up and down about it being such a great deal, well if its that good a deal, then Ross should just take the deal himself and get on with the renovations instead of having to wait through government red-tape.

So for those so excited about this, why is it sooooooo important that the public be involved ? Ross should have the cash or a credit line for that kind of cash. And if he doesn't and the reason is because he's already made a bad investment with the Dolphins, well I kind of resent having to be involved because the man made a bad investment, that's not why you get the public involved. Ross is a big boy and if made a crappy investment, that is his problem.

 

Ross is not the only one who benefits from the renovation. The city benefits from it as well and Ross wants them to share in the cost since they will share in reaping the rewards.

 

absolutely correct sir.

Robbie predicted and said their would be a lot of development around the stadium when it was built, that never happened.

So when people that are from Broward want to eat before the game they eat near home, and if they want to eat other than stadium fare, most of them cross back into Broward to eat. The benefit to Miami-Dade from these folks I guess comes in the few that do eat or gas up in Miami-Dade but that number is probably a lot lower than many here would be willing to believe.

 

LOL.

Dude. there are people that have still not been paid for their work on JOE ROBBIE Stadium. But hey..it's only been 25 years.

 

Miami-Dade isn't giving Ross nothing. They're giving him money. The money they're giving him isn't coming out of the general fund, nor will it cause the County to incur debt.

No, its not easy getting a credit line for $500M, even for a billionaire. And certainly you can resent Ross for making a bad investment, but that inherently indicts Miami's viability as an NFL market. He can sell the team, take a loss, and the new owner is going to fight tooth and nail to get public financing (most likely in a deal thats much worse for the County), or fight tooth and nail to move the team.

 

Wait a minute, the stadium only cost $ 100 million to build in 1987. Why is there a service debt 25 years later of 1/5 of that original cost ? I'm no accountant, but somewhere someone made a bad deal, and I'll be dadgummed if the taxpayers should bail someone out of a stupid business deal that they made. If so then line the people up and thousands of businesses should get a cut of that dea1

 

Huizenga made renovations.

Either way, lets not lose focus of reality. The Dolphins aren't making money. Something must change.

 

Because Toronto is a TV market of 8 million and Buffalo of just more than 1,500,000.

Jax is the team to move instead of the Dolphins because their immediate market is the smallest in the NFL at right around 1 million. The Dolphins is over 5 million.