Makes sense but why do I have a feeling that in Belichick's hands, Bess would prosper- immensely? In our offensive philosophy, he's bantha fodder as was the dream of Bush spreading wide. I deeply believe he is worth a 3rd and as a "aw hell with it", a 4th.
If Miami gets Albert I have to think the pick is either a CB or DE. Hayden or Carradine become real possibilities.
Welker was just flat out undervalued by us. I dont recall people ever doubting Welker as a deep threat, actually just the opposite. Bess just isnt as good as Welker. He had no deep speed. He has good "shiftiness" for lack of a better term which is to say that he moves well in a short area but you dont fear him taking it the distance.
assuming we trade for Albert ... I don't think we are drafting offense @ 12., actually don't think we want to stay @ 12 - but if we do: I would draft Ansah (should he be there - and he might), but believe we take Richardson - as our DT situation after this year is a huge ???
Bess's percentage of 40+ yard receptions is only 1.4% less than Welker's on their careers, and of course Welker has been operating predominantly within some of the best offenses of all time, with one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time.
San Fran is rumoured to be considering trading up all the way to 13. San Fran is rumoured to be in lust with Austin. Miami just traded away their starter for the spot that Austin would obviously start in. Message: Miami is serious about taking Austin. He will not fall pas*sed* 12.
A 4th would be about right, a 3rd and Ireland is a GENUIS. Bess is easy to like for his overachieving story and work ethic, he has had his share of untimely drops and fumbles the past few years. Fact is he is solid at best and we are trying to become dynamic. Not to mention he has one more year on his contract....he is no Welker or even an Amendola if you ask me. This has been my stance for a couple years now and I have debated this topic with many of you, just like I did with Dansby. I like Bess, but he is exactly the kind of player that promotes field goals if you can make sense of that.
Where to begin.... -wes scores a lot more TD's -wes gets a lot more targets/catches -wes is a guy defenses key on and throw a great CB more so then the outside wr's for NE. -Bess breaks no tackles; wes at least breaks some. -Wes might be the best slot wr of all time. Youre comparing Bess to him.
Well, he's a $3.4m cap figure for us, but to Cleveland ( or whoever), only a $2.7m hit. He'd be about an $800k dead money hit... Makes it a better shot for a trade...
If Bess leaving means we take one of the two West Virginia kids, Austin or Bailey, then a 4th or 5th round pick is fine by me.
If this is true it supports the theory that this new Philbin system requires receivers that can play anywhere on the field, or that Bess was never that great to begin with. I hope it's the former, I really liked Bess. Good team guy and never complained.
Only 1.2% more td's per reception because he plays/played with players like Moss/Gronk/Hernandez/Lloyd/etc. He wasnt used vertically as much but he sure can rip up a seam route.
I wonder if this has anything to do with the thread phinsational posted on the Browns looking looking to move Jabaal Sheard ?
If he can rip up a seam route so much better than Bess, why only 1.4% more 40+ yard plays on his career? Why does Bess have 0.6% more 20+ yard plays on their careers?
Shouright stop giving bad stats to serve your purpose. Bess career 40+ receiving: 1 - Long = 41 yards. Welker career 40+ receiving: 13 - Long = 99 yards Bess career 20+ receiving: 38. Welker career 20+ receiving: 86.
If we stay at 12, he is well,........honestly you need to go to the Club Level. If you decide to, know whatever you do find there stays there.
A) Youre doing this as a %. Talk about the total numbers Sumlit just posted in post 62 or 63. B) Welker has other players who occupy those seam routes like Gronk, Hernandez and players prior to that. He has to share the and operate differently. Our skill players over that time frame dont compare.
Give me an early 5th for Bess and replace him in the 3rd with Stedman Bailey. Done. Position upgraded. Either that or wouldn't mind having a draft day deal involving a swap of 2nd rounders with Philly (they get Bess) and packaging their 2.3 pick with one of our 3rds to move back into the 20's for a coveted player that drops. Of course the best would be a 3rd + Bess to move up to 6 for Tavon Austin.
Including quarterback, which is actually an argument for Bess, not against him. Your argument makes sense of the overall numbers, not the percentages I'm outlining. Clearly you can't account for those with anything sensible. We're going on four back-and-forth exchanges at this point.
If they truely called the Jets to gauge interest, that speaks volumes of the internal opinion of Davone.
The idea that you believe Davone Bess and Wes Welker are the same or similar players is a joke. May as well compare Charles Clay to Aaron Hernandez because they have similar builds and play the same position.
I suppose I'll have to take that on your authority, since you can't do anything sensible with the objective performance data that say they're very similar.
I understand that you are manipulating stats to serve your purpose. Bess has 1 career 40+ reception in 321 career reception Welker has 13 career 40+ receptions in 768 career receptions. Welker's ratio is significantly greater. Bess has a slight edge in ratio on 20+ receptions. But again, you are reducing stats to ratios in order to discredit the volumes. Productivity matters in the NFL. Welker has been massively more productive than Bess regardless how you want to spin it.
uhm ok. Bess rips a 40+ reception every 321 receptions. Welker rips a 40+ reception every 59 receptions. That's a significant difference.