Obviously no one considers them to be that. But the fact is - more often than not- They end up being 'thrown away'. Having even slight success in later rounds is a pretty big plus. (which Ireland has had)
go back in you hole. Knock on Ireland all you want, but knocking on him for what he's done in the later rounds is pure ignorance.
I don't think you understand how many 6th to 7th round players make their respective teams. The fact that so many of our 6th and 7th round picks have made our roster or other teams rosters shows you just how good Ireland has been late. There hasn't been any All-Pros (yet) from the 6th or 7th rounds, but still you want to get guys that can contribute to your team at that point and if they don't make the team they can't contribute. Seriously though, check out how many other teams 6th and 7th round picks make their final rosters.
I would've liked to have Austin, Patton or Swope but I think we like what we have with Gibson, Binns and Matthews. With our WR and TE additions, I'm confident we'll score more points if Tannehill takes the next step. After the draft, the only position I'm unsure of is LT. We could still trade for Albert or even Monroe (who would be a good acquisition). We filled our holes at pass rusher and CB (or at least tried to). It looks like next year, we'll need OL and DT. We need to extend Jones and Clemons or next year safety will be a huge need.
Doesn't that go against your point? Seeing as Ireland drafted Jones in the last pick of the 5th round. OR do you expect every 6th and 7th round pick to be that good lol
The Ireland debate is just beyond ridiculous at this point. Both sides of the argument are so prone to hyperbole I'm fairly certain at this point NO ONE has a clear idea just how good or bad Ireland really is.
yup, just how some biased posters tried to give all the Tannehill credit to Ross, Sherman, and Philbin. Pure foolish ignorance. None of us want to be wrong about anything but some of us take that to an extreme. I'm a supporter of Ireland's but I'm not jumping through hoops to call this an outstanding draft at first sight. Looks like we're picking guys with future salary cap in mind as I stated before the draft: Thomas to perhaps replace Incognito next year; Sturgis to replace Carpentner; two corners to replace Patterson & Marshall, granted Taylor represented value as well. However I give Ireland & Co an A+ in working to ensure our future cap is ok. This draft had to balance out what we did in FA. It's all a part of a process to straighten this organization out so that next year we can begin doing what we saw San Fran do this draft by taking BPA all through the draft.
Also Lex Hilliard & Jalen Parmele is still alive. Andrew Gardner still alive. Donald Thomas got a nice contract this offseason. In fact the only flat out busts from 2008 on starting in the 5th round are: John Nalbone, J.D. Folsom, Chris McCoy, B.J. Cunningham. EVERY 5th or later pick outside of those guys are still playing in the league or at least played for 4 years which is above the average NFL career lifespan. It's round 2 and 3 that have been Ireland's kryptonite.
no, we know for a fact he's good in later rounds. That's been his area since 2008 and he's been respected as such for a long time dating back way before he came to Miami.
no sh-t. The better question is what Ireland 5th+ rounders AREN'T still contributing in the NFL. Nalbone was one of Parcells' pet picks coming from the same town. Cunningham was reportedly Philbin's choice. But still, even with those guys the hit rate is incredibly high.
The simple fact our starting safeties for the past couple years are both 5th rounders is excellent value.
Great post! I wonder if WR is also a bit of his kryptonite. Not nagging on R. Mathews or Hartline, but I found it odd we spent so much time scouting WRs and didn't take a single one. We filled them all via Free Agency (bringing back Hartline, Wallace, and Gibson). I know WRs take a while to develop and contribute and they are all-in for now so that could have played a part in avoiding a WR, but I have to think they at least "wanted" to add another WR. Or maybe he was/is a bit gun shy from previous misses.
Zona and St. Louis have had great drafts in my opinion. Although I am starting to hate St. Louis, they are approaching Jets and Patriots level hate lol
But you see why some people complain here Phinsational. You are quick to point out that Dolphins' draft failures while under Parcells should not be pinned on Ireland, but then turn around and state it as "fact" that he was in charge for the late rounds where some picks turned out to be hits. Now my hyperbole comment stems from the fact that some previous posts stated that Ireland was "world great" in late rounds. If i go and flip that comment to its opposite and say that Ireland has been absolutely terrible drafting late talent, I'm sure you'd have something to say about that. The answer lies in the middle, but this debate has warped so far in each directing since Ireland has been the Dolphins GM, the reality has almost been lost in the hyperbole.
Well, Ireland, being our GM, is de-facto polarizing no matter what one thinks of him. The pro guys say quitcells caused all our issues for 4 yrs, the anti guys say our w/l record is all his fault because of being the GM. Bottom line is that there is more to our failure in the w/l department than just one guy....quitcells, sparano, Ross, Ireland, a slew of players and even Huysienga all are part of the blame. However, he's the one with the title and makes a great target....
I could care less about hyperbole and I don't get lost in it in all fairness. What others do and don't do in regards to hyperbole means nothing to me. The fact is it's been reported numerous times that, when Parcells was here, he was in charge of the early stuff and Ireland kinda took over late, and it's a fact Ireland has been highly respected for his ability to find talent over the years. I dont care who took what since 2008; I don't play favorites. I'm not saying Ireland took the late guys b/c I support Ireland and the picks have done well; I say it b/c it's the truth. There's no reason for hyperbole to ruin the truth.
Jeff fuller had a very good camp last year, flashed a lot, some of the best connections were seam routes down the middle, I'm hopin he worked hard on his craft and comes to camp ready to compete..seing that we didnt take a receiver..Would of went woods at 42 but you can't get Dion Jordan for free.. Jelani Jenkins was 20 years old 2 months ago..I'm not sure if he's just gonna be happy running around and showin his speed and making the occasional big play, but I'd like to see his grimy light come on and start to sacrifice his body for the run game..highest rated linebacker in the country when he came out of high school, never know what your gonna get, hopefully he's not just book smart. Stugis has excellent form on his kicks, and there's no wasted movement..three step, drops that left hip and bam. Dallas Thomas is a solid player already with a ski ramp built in the lumbar region of his back and bubble, that balance he creates is why some think he can play left tackle, the kid has very good form and technique in his setup, and already has a nice pulling skills, all that's missing is Jim turner teaching him the finer points of the craft, being a little quicker recognizing some stunts, and looks to me like hes going to be a solid player.. Jamar I'm excited about, this is the corner we all wanted Vontae to become..great swap and immediate upgrade from Sean smith..What a fine *** tackler of the ball carrier, your toast man when he measures you up, he's got great speed, and he's got some nastiness to him that I love..we needed this corner and we sacrificed a receiver for him..can't really complain, we got a good player at 54.. Will Davis.. In a division championship game, against a quality receiver in Patton, Davis shut him down for a complete half, as well as the other receivers that he went up against when they started moving Patton to the other side, he competed in feisty confident fashion.whe, then they were up by 28, the guard came down, and you could see him get a little lackadaisical, I'm hoping, when this kid gets Kevin Coyle up his ***, the lights will stay on all game, but all I'm saying, is the skillset of covering receivers, he's got it.. Dion Jordan baby..the Mantis.. Mike Gilessie, the antethesis of Reggie bush, traditional, complete, running back skillset..happy with getting this player where we did.
what team is set? are you dumb enough to think that the Fins were going to address every one of their needs in one draft?
I'm mixed on our draft selections this year. I obviously don't know how these guys selected in later rounds will pan out but I feel like there were other options available that might have been of better value. Ireland is very precise about who he wants and goes after them. I can appreciate the fact that he is aggressive and decisive at the least. I hope we either get a DT, OG or WR with our 7th rd pick. As it stands right now there are good options at all of these positions but we also don't pick until pretty late in the 7th rd and it will be interesting to me to see who's left at that point
I love this post for 2 reasons 1. It's a great analysis that really gets me excited for our future 2. It finally gets this thread back on topic. Enough with the damn Ireland talk
They like to beat Ireland like a rented mule, knowing Parcells control freak personality you know he made all the decisions until he left, last year and 2013 are on Ireland.
Well....the thing is.....Ireland does some really good things...and then he does some head scratchers...that make you go...huh? I think....most people have a much better opinion of him, but lets face it.....right not the GM is in the spotlight....and the draft for many of us is a very emotional time, so frustrations tend to come out easier. With Jeff..given his past...its not hard to revert back to the bastardizing of the GM
Well you're guilty of hyperbole too, not surprised you don't care for it. You've taken "reports" and made them your "facts" when it serves your argument, yet you come here and jump on the throats of anyone who does the same to support the different side of the argument. The real fact is, you cannot prove it either way, so it cannot be used to support either side of the argument. Using last two drafts (not including 2013) as our most viable evaluation tools, i can say that IMO Ireland is good for 2 very solid late round picks and 2 solid UDFA per draft. That is very good considering the nature of the draft, however i'm not so sure that is significantly superior to the average of the other 31 GMs in the NFL.
I had him rated well below the what was being projected, but 7th round seems strange.. Where are all our 7th rounders?
The last 3 'Mr. Irrelevant's are still contributors. 2012: Rishard Matthews 2011: Jimmy Wilson 2010: Austin Spitler