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Mike Dee: "The future looks bleak."

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Serpico Jones, May 5, 2013.

  1. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Jdub, please can you answer the first question I asked you, I'm dying to know how you don't think putting the Super Bowl wave of people in your city for a week doesn't benefit the city monetarily, these are EXTRA people that would of normally NOT been there, which means on top of what we would normally have??? Can someone help put this better?lol.
     
  2. The_Dark_Knight

    The_Dark_Knight Defender of the Truth

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    JW, your post clearly isn't looking at the BIGGER picture. Take this for example...

    The Miami Hurricanes play every Saturday. How packed is the stadium when they play? Eh, that's probably relevant to how well they're playing.
    When the Orange Bowl is played? I almost guarantee you the stadium is sold out at inflated prices.
    Let the BCS Bowl be played in Miami? I almost guarantee you the stadium is sold out at hyper-inflated prices.

    All of the out of towners traveling to Miami, paying inflated prices for hotels, the money they spend on everything from the basics such a food to shopping for merchandise...in additional to the standard rate of consumption of native Miamians. That's BIG money pumped into South Florida

    Now, add the Super Bowl on top of that! The revenue generated is astronomical.

    They only thing that would cause a greater financial explosion would be the Miami Dolphins playing in the Super Bowl...in Miami!

    [[Has a team ever hosted the Super Bowl in their stadium before? I can't recall]]
     
  3. Ricky's Pipe

    Ricky's Pipe Season Ticket Holder

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    Stringer:

    Yes, businesses supported the stadium referndum, and yes, the deal as presented was a much better value than the Marlins deal. Nevertheless, to say that it is wrong for Florida citizens to oppose a public/private partnership is not fair.

    You say it is not about Steven Ross, but about S. Florida business development - but until you can show me why Steven Ross cannot unilaterally renovate the stadium and not recuperate that money (at profit) between revenue from the anticipated events and the final sale price for the team, then you cannot ignore that he himself shares in the blame.

    With or without the renovations, he will make a profit hands-over-fist if/when he sells the team. More so with a renovated stadium.
     
  4. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Why should he unilaterally renovate a stadium when that investment benefits a lot of other entities.

    Do you really think he could recuperate $600M+? How is that going to happen?

    I'm not against people opposing a public/private partnership. I'm against people opposing a public/private partnership that gives the public a positive return on its investment. If Ross was asking for an amount I felt was more than the County would see back, I'd say its a bad deal. As is it stands, IMO it was a great deal for the county. Simply because their partner in this would make money shouldn't be a reason for them not to do it.
     
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  5. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    That's what it comes down to me..an investment oppurtunity, problem seems to be that the majority cannot envision the other ways a new modernized stadium could make money for the city, and how it could help attendance and team morale.
     
  6. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Exactly, why should Ross incur all of the expenses when the city and region would obviously benefit long term with a modernization?
     
  7. Ricky's Pipe

    Ricky's Pipe Season Ticket Holder

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    According to this article, in 1994:

    "Although the Dolphins purchase price was not disclosed, a person familiar with the team said that Huizenga, who already held a 15 percent interest in the Dolphins, would pay about $140 million to acquire the remaining 85 percent. That would place the value of the franchise at about $165 million"

    http://www.nytimes.com/1994/01/25/sports/pro-football-huizenga-bids-to-buy-3d-team-dolphins.html

    In 2009, Huizinga sold 95% of the Dolphins to Ross for $1 billion. The NFL is only making more and more money and it is not a strecth to believe he will recuperate $600 million in a few years if/when he sells the team.
     
  8. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    I think even Ross knows himself that Sun Life is a dump, he's tried giving the stadium away already. 600+ million to renovate a stadium he doesn't even want? Yeah I don't see him doing that.
     
  9. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    I'm not sure he thought it was a dump when he dropped 1.1 billion on the joint venture?

    I think when mike dee came in and assessed what a miserable place it was in terms of a home field advantage, the thoughts started to creep in that something needs to be done to chance that dynamic, hence all the talk and pretty visuals of a new look stadium that adhered towards energy and intimacy.
     
  10. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    If you bought a painting for 40 dollars, and then were able to sell the painting for 400 dollars, did the painting make money?
     
  11. Ricky's Pipe

    Ricky's Pipe Season Ticket Holder

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    I'm not sure what your trying to say - but my post was a response to Stringer's statement re: how Ross would expect to recuperate the $600 million if he unilaterally paid for the renovations.

    In a few years, Ross will be able to sell the renovated stadium and team for much more than he paid. I fully anticipate him to sell for a figure much higher than the purchase + renovation price. I was merely using Huizenga's profit as an example of how that would come about. This, of course, does not even take into consideration the profits he would recevie each year from team/stadium revenue.
     
  12. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Huh? What does this have to do with a renovations? You're saying that the team will appreciate, I don't disagree. I'm saying that renovations won't have much affect on the value of the team. In order for renovations to have an effect, they need to create new revenue. How will that happen exactly?
     
  13. Ricky's Pipe

    Ricky's Pipe Season Ticket Holder

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    It was an example meant to show that Ross will profit heavily from the sale of the franchise and stadium. In 10+ years the franchise and stadium can reasonably be expected to be worth double his purchase price. If not more. He would also be receiving revenue throughout the years. Therefore, in my opinion, he should reinvest a portion of that money into renovations. It is just my opinion. I understand he would like public support for his investment, I just don't think it is incumbent on the public to do so.
     
  14. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    That example doesn't show that Ross would profit from spending $600M on renovations. We are discussing whether he should invest in renovations. In order for him to do that, it needs to be adding value to his business. I don't believe $400M in renovations would make the Dolphins worth an additional $600M. It would be a bad investment. You're essentially saying you want Stephen Ross to make a losing investment, that would benefit the county. That sounds like welfare to me.
     
  15. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Ross didn't pay 1 billion dollars for the Dolphins because he can get a good return on his investment. He bought it because before he was owner of the Dolphins less than one percent of one percent of one percent of one percent of Americans knew who he was. Now he is a celebrity.

    Paraphrasing Jerry Jones, "Make a billion dollar deal and nobody cares, sign a back up defensive tackle, and you are all over the local news."
     
  16. Ricky's Pipe

    Ricky's Pipe Season Ticket Holder

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    There is no concrete figure I can use to say how much the renovation will tangibly add to the franchise. The same way that the Dolphins cannot quantify the financial value of the renovations to Miami-Dade.

    You believe Miami-Dade, in general, will recuperate more money than it invested through an increase in business. I believe that with the renovations, when Steven Ross sells the franchise, he will profit much more than the $600million that he invested. You believe the investment from the city is a good deal. I believe that is unnecessary. I believe that without the public financing Mr. Ross will still make a great profit on the sale of the team with the renovations.
     
  17. Coral Reefer

    Coral Reefer Premium Member

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    Back in Miami
    I'm not buying for a second that the NFL will stay away from Miami which is one of their favorite locations for a Super Bowl forever based on this.

    The fact is that the facilities were never an issue.
    This all came about because of a knee jerk reaction by the NFL because it rained during the Colts/Saints Super Bowl.
    There is bad weather one year out of 10 S. Florida Super Bowls and Goodell overreacts and turns it into a massive issue.
    Meanwhile they are going to NY in mid winter and Northern California for another where another Fog Bowl is a likely outcome.
    This is all BS.

    They'll make their point bypassing Miami for a few of the bids and then we'll be right back in the mix.
    The NFL will not stay away from this market for long.
     
  18. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Again, simply because he is profiting more than $600M does not mean that he will see a return on $600M worth of renovations to the stadium. The renovations would just cut into his profits. What exactly are you suggesting is the motivation for Stephen Ross to renovate on his own?

    And there has been plenty of research, namely from Miami-Dade County, that shows they will make back their investment. The Mayor has said it numerous times. The fact that an overwhelming majority of businesses support it should say enough. There is plenty of other research as well. It isn't a complicated model.
     
  19. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Certainly if you believe that Miami will see the same number of SBs regardless, then you should be against this deal. I don't agree that they will get as many SBs, but at least your point is logical.
     
  20. smahtaz

    smahtaz Pimpin Ain't Easy

    I don't believe that for a second. Owning a stadium is like owning a boat. It will never be worth as much as it cost to build and maintain.
     
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  21. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    Sun Life is not a dump. Well, OK, the bathrooms are horrendous; I swear I saw Cthulhu's genesis in a damp corner one time. Beyond that, the stadium is just fine. Huizenga renovated it before selling to Ross. You know what was a dump? The Orange Bowl. But people won't shut up about incredible that stadium was, even though it was held together by bubble gum and mold.

    Yes, it's a knee-jerk reaction, but the rain happened during Colts-Bears in 2007, not Colts-Saints in 2010. Colts-Saints was an exemplary Super Bowl experience.
     
  22. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    Sorry it took me a while to respond but I had to leave to pick up the grand kids from school.

    My view of the economic impact of a SB in South Florida is that it has a minor impact on tourism at that time of the year. Yes it brings in fans for the game, but it also prevents other people who want to come to South Florida during that week from doing so, because they have trouble finding hotel rooms at a reasonable rate. The hotels in the area always up their rates during SB week because they know they have a captive fan base in town for the game.

    These hotel rooms would be filled with regular tourist if there was no SB being played in South Florida at that time. It just so happens that the SB is always played at the time of the year when South Florida is at the height of tourist season.

    I think the SB probably has a big economic impact on those areas of the country which don't have a lot of tourists in town in late January or early February, but I don't see it being the economic boost for South Florida that it is hyped to be.

    The hotels might make some extra money by charging more for their hotel rooms during SB week, but that doesn't mean these fans spend more money in the South Florida at other establishments than the tourists who come to South Florida for reasons other than attending a SB.

    A study was done a few years ago and it showed that the tourists who generally spend the most money while visiting South Florida are for the most part, from foreign countries. Especially South America and Europe. I doubt seriously if this is the crowd that comes to South Florida to attend a Super Bowl.

    Unlike your view that the Super Bowl brings in EXTRA people during that week. I think that it probably prevents non Super Bowl fans from traveling to South Florida during that week because they don't want to have to pay the higher hotel rates during SB week.

    If the SB comes back to South Florida, I'm certainly not going to stand on a corner and protest against it coming. Heck I've been here for the 10 previous SB's and if we get another one, fine. I just don't care one way or the other. I also don't believe that it is the big economic impact to the area that many people claim it is. If you believe differently, I can live with that. I have my opinion and you have yours.

    I am not saying my opinion is any more valid than yours. It is just a different opinion and that is all.
     
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  23. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Thanks, I'll say this, rich people, a lot of times very rich people, come to the city where the Super Bowl is held..this is a different clientele, creating all kinds of derivative angles that benefit the city.
     
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  24. jw3102

    jw3102 season ticket holder

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    I won't argue that some very rich people attend the SB. I am sure there is some minor economic impact of having a SB in South Florida, I just don't think it is nearly as big an impact as you and many other people do. I value your opinion on this issue, just as I value it on the various other topics you take the time to respond too.

    We don't always have to agree, we just have to respect that we can agree to disagree sometimes. I certainly respect you and your right to express your opinions.
     
  25. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    of course, me too , but right now I want to disagree with you lol...to me it's a math equation, I'm going on the low numbers reported as to its impact, multiplying that against how many I fear losing and other large events that I think we'll be overlooked on, until the renovations are done, or the NFL decides to put us back in the loop.
     
  26. Silverphin

    Silverphin Well-Known Member

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    To answer your question at the bottom: surprisingly, no.

     
  27. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    There are at least 28 better stadiums than Sun Life. So by that number, it is a dump.
     
  28. Sumlit

    Sumlit Well-Known Member

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    Any event that overflows a city with tourist with money itching to have a good time and spend, will and does have a large impact in the economics of the area. Beach Hotels might be close to full capacity in that time of the year, but other accommodations around the city are not, and there is also the expenses not related to renting bedrooms.

    Laws of supply and demand alone would support this premise.
     
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  29. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    [video=youtube;pWdd6_ZxX8c]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWdd6_ZxX8c[/video]
     
  30. Vertical Limit

    Vertical Limit Senior Member

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    An opinion shared by many, search it up if you want, majority have ranked Sun Life between 25 to 31, in the same tier with Jacksonville and Buffalo.
     
  31. ASOT

    ASOT New Member

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    but DJ don't you understand those extra people also put an extra strain on our publicly funded facilities and also local utilities, as well as extra strain on our police, fire, hospitals, etc. It's not as though they come without some cost as well to our local government.

    It's not all good, but some bad too.

    It also can put a strain on locals who live here, who have to deal with extra traffic and that means longer driving times, and more money out of their pocket for expensive gasoline.

    Also DJ, any sales tax that these extra people generate, doesn't go into local coffers, but is sent to Tallahassee, and gets put into the general budget, which of course we know is not distributed evenly throughout the state. Tallahassee is infamous for shortchanging Miami-Dade at the rate of about 33¢ on the dollar for what we send to Tallahassee. Miami-Dade makes some money, but the locals, the people who live here see such little benefit from it, if any at all, I wonder if its worth the inconvenience to us ?
     
  32. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    Too many people coming to Miami to spend money? This is an argument against???
     
  33. MAFishFan

    MAFishFan Team Tannehill

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    I'm from Massachusetts, so I really don't have a vote in this. My only dog in this fight is hoping the Dolphins stay in Miami. With that said, here's a quote: "Robert Kraft paid for 100% of the construction costs, a rare instance of an NFL owner privately financing the construction of a stadium." Suck it up buttercup. You want the reno's, figure out a way to make it happen. You knew the condition of the stadium when you were buying it. Saying otherwise is a load of ****. You bought, you own it, you fix it. Seems fairly simple.
     
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  34. Desides

    Desides Well-Known Member

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    Assuming that this is true—and the burden of proof is on you, not me—then it's still meaningless, because it's still just opinion. You haven't actually listed a single reason as to why you hold this opinion, you just assert that your opinion is fact and that an unidentified group agrees with you, therefore it is verified fact and unassailable.
     
  35. CANDolphan

    CANDolphan Well-Known Member

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    Not only that but I think Vertical Limit is using the logic threshold of "below average" as his reasoning, because all it being #28 means is that there are 27 stadiums that could be considered nicer.

    I can think of 28 cars Id rather drive than an Explorer Limited but it doesn't make it a huge piece of **** car as a result.
     
  36. PhinsRock

    PhinsRock Premium Member Luxury Box

    The NFL isn't stupid, S. FL/Miami is a desired and publicly desired destination. Some little power hungry jerk isn't going to stop Miami from getting future SB's when it benefits the local economy so much, financially and public relations-wise. The Dolphins will present this again IMO and next time Ross will have learned who's pockets to line and Miami voters should be over the stench of Marlins Stadium.

    I have no problem hosting SB'S 51 or 52 and neither should the local economy. The Dolphins aren't going anywhere, so long as Ross and Ireland/Philbin put a winning team on the field for a change. If the Bills can remain in Buffalo at that old stadium without ANY hope of hosting a SB, and without a winning team sine the early 90's, the Dolphins are still a marquis location, even if not exactly a Shula-esque franchise.

    The NFL isn't letting the Dolphins go anywhere!
     
  37. Dol-Fan Dupree

    Dol-Fan Dupree Tank? Who is Tank? I am Guy Incognito.

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    Buffalo just gave public money to upgrade the stadium.

    The NFL isn't stupid. It would be stupid for them to keep a team in S.Fl/Miami if another area is willing to put up the money for an awesome stadium.

    Also, giving superbowls to areas that put money into the stadium also helps the NFL as well.
     
  38. PhinsRock

    PhinsRock Premium Member Luxury Box

    Superb post, brought up many points of fact I had not thought of, thank you for such intelligence and insight into the REALITY of the value of bringing a SB here. Now, find a way to keep the Dolphins from moving to LA, and I'll friend you! (Not a threat) (lol)
     
  39. Serpico Jones

    Serpico Jones Well-Known Member

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  40. PhinishLine

    PhinishLine Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    The state contributed 72 million to the project.
     

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