1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

The "Offset" Language Snag

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by ckparrothead, May 10, 2013.

  1. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    79,599
    159,162
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    It doesn't matter because when you set up the incentive structure differently, it changes the likely outcome.

    Let's just call it this way. If you give a guy a guaranteed contract, and you still want to cut him in the fourth year even though he's getting his $3 million regardless, then he's a COMPLETE bust. A totally valueless bust. You're saying you'd rather have the 53 man roster spot available so you can pick OT Patrick Brown up off waivers.

    Scroll down the history of 1st round picks, especially top 10 picks, and see how often you see guys you're willing to say were completely valueless within 3 years. That's how likely it is for the Dolphins to find themselves in this soooo extremely undesirable position of allowing their player to "double dip".
     
  2. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member


    I agree with you Ck, on the other hand, Jordan himself may fell a bit antsy about not being in most of the offseason due to both his injury and school restrictions, enough so that he may feel the urgency to get himself into TC and not miss any additional time. Jordan does have something to prove as he's not a slam-dunk prospect (something that was very common in this particular draft) and missing the OTAs and minicamps may just be enough to get him into camp sooner than later... I'm not sure about how intelligent this guy is...If he's smart, you're right, he lets the agent take care of things. When I say intelligent, I don't mean football smart, I mean life smart... You or others may have more info about the kid than I do, but just from what I've heard from the kid...I'm not sure ??
     
  3. That is just a silly view IMO. That would be like we out bid all the other teams on Grimes so we should be ok with guaranteeing all of a 5 year deal. That just isn't smart football. The better deal Jeff and Dawn get for the team, the better bust insurance we have. Jordan is a perfect example of a player that we should demand the offset language from. He has a high ceiling but a high bust potential as well. He is already injured and playing well under his ideal weight. With the type of injury he has he won't even be able to work on getting bigger this offseason, so if he is a few weeks late reporting to camp it might even HELP him.

    I am certainly glad we have someone in the FO that is looking out for the best for the team. This is just another sign that Ireland is secure in his job. Someone afraid of losing his job, looking out only for himself, would take whatever deal he could get to get the guy in on time. Jeff is looking down the road, not just at this one season.
     
  4. THIS!!! Thank you!!! Nail on the head.

    Add to this that these things add up. If you have 5 out of 10 years where this applies then you have lost $15 million in cap space. And since you can now roll over cap space that is ACTUALLY $15 million in cap space. The object here is to set an example and let everyone know that "if you are drafted by the fins you WON'T be getting it so don't even try". It is a lot easier starting it from the beginning than trying to start it later. Over time it will make a big difference to our cap down the road.
     
  5. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    There's no reason to sign them before training camp. As long as they're unsigned they don't count against the 90 player limit, I think. Once one is signed, then a UDFA or veteran must be cut to stay at 90. By waiting they can get more looks at the UDFAs in mini camps.
     
    NCFINFAN likes this.
  6. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    39,159
    21,798
    113
    Nov 29, 2007
    San Diego
    We were never, ever, ever going to let Tannehill re-enter the draft. Come on now. It was showboating/posturing for the cameras. It's the same as when Kim Kardashian starts talking about world politics on her show. It's fake, obvious, and very very hard to watch.
     
    MrClean likes this.
  7. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

    79,599
    159,162
    113
    Dec 1, 2007
    Jordan has no more to prove than any other player in the draft and if anything I would think that his being mandated to miss everything until training camp would make him LESS likely to start pumping urgency into the situation. The fact that he can't do anything until camp anyway means there's probably going to be a no-communication standoff between the two sides all the way until a few days before camp is set to start. That's not a positive for getting things done quickly.
     
  8. And she was right!! Thank goodness she is the one in charge rather than someone who didn't understand it's value.
     
  9. LBsFinest

    LBsFinest Banned

    3,972
    2,062
    0
    Jul 24, 2012
    Dolphins will be ridiculed once again if they insist on this clause to protect themselves from a highly unlikely scenario that wouldn't even save them much money anyway and it results in Dion Jordan not budging and missing time in camp because the rest of the picks in the top 5 don't have any of this language in their deals.
     
  10. I disagree with you in the respect that if a team offers a player a contract, the team should be obligated to fulfill the terms of that contract unless the player does something to void it. IMO the players union really failed them in negotiations in that aspect. Since a team is not obligated to honor its contractual obligation the only thing the player is left with is their garunteed money. Its a bit unsavory for teams to further pressure these players to compromise any portion of that promised money for signing simply because another team employs them later. If the team does not want to pay their salary while they are working somewhere else than they should not of cut them.
     
  11. This in a nutshell is the issue I have. If you want players to honor the terms of the contracts they sign, then it should obligate teams to honor paying them too. If not eliminate contracts and let them negotiate contracts from year to year.
     
  12. It also does not go unnoticed among agents and will influence them directing players toward miami as a desirable destination point. It cuts both ways.
     
  13. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

    111,654
    67,547
    113
    Dec 20, 2007
    But there are mandatory OTA's coming up in a week and in June, it's imperative rookies are there to start getting involved, if they miss those OTA's it's BS imo..nobody gets much offseason time together anymore, I don't think they can attend those mandatory ones unless their signed right?
     
  14. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

    72,252
    43,684
    113
    Nov 27, 2007
    Dion, (I refuse to call him Avatar, because its a stupid, stupid name) while recovering from second and third degree burns over 40% of his body, tried to convince his mom he could still play football, back when he was playing it for free. I don't think he'll let his agent hold him out over contract language.
     
    ChrisKo and slickj101 like this.
  15. BevoPhin

    BevoPhin Well-Known Member

    1,523
    795
    113
    Mar 15, 2013
    Right about what? She was full of ****. And we didnt have the leverage to demand it to be included, even if it is a good thing, since it wasnt included in the other top 10 picks deals. Shes in charge of contracts and numbers, probably an awesome number nerd, but to make the call that any draft pick let alone a top 10 qb can re-enter the draft is not a call she makes, and her saying that was a joke. And were a joke if we give our finance and accounting department that power. Which we dont.I wouldnt be surprised if ryan just said, you know what this is such a stupid detail and theyre offering pretty much my whole contract up front so why wouldnt I agree to it.Btw, ryan re-enters the draft and probably goes higher than #8.
     
  16. unluckyluciano

    unluckyluciano For My Hero JetsSuck

    53,333
    23,006
    0
    Dec 7, 2007
    yup. Take this offseason for instance..
     
  17. unluckyluciano

    unluckyluciano For My Hero JetsSuck

    53,333
    23,006
    0
    Dec 7, 2007
    your argument makes zero sense.
     
  18. BevoPhin

    BevoPhin Well-Known Member

    1,523
    795
    113
    Mar 15, 2013
    Amazing input, thanks. What do you think im arguing thats hard to grasp? Our contract negotiator shouldnt make such bold decisions that she isnt in a position to make.
     
  19. unluckyluciano

    unluckyluciano For My Hero JetsSuck

    53,333
    23,006
    0
    Dec 7, 2007
    he says: she was right to put the clause in because she got it.
    you say: she shouldn't do that because we didn't have the leverage to do so, even though we got it, and tanny just probably did it to sign the contract.
    None of this contradicts the fact that he signed the contract with what aponte wanted him to.
    edit: And now your argument is she isn't at the right authority to demand the offset language. Even though apparently, no one in the organization sees it that way.
     
  20. BevoPhin

    BevoPhin Well-Known Member

    1,523
    795
    113
    Mar 15, 2013
    The contract being signed doesnt mean it was right. People are on the wrong side of contracts all the time. Im not even making this difficult-she can write contracts any way she wants, its her job, but rejecting our top draft pick over offset language is not only poor judgement, by keeping our already raw rookie qb from coaching and the team, but because she simply cant make that call. Theres a few things wrong with that, not just one, my argument hasnt changed. Ive thought of a few problems with that ever since I heard that joke of a conversation on hard knocks. Maybe dont burn a bridge with someone that youre probably going to have to negotiate with in the future. But, ryan decided it wasnt worth holding out longer for, so dawn won! Woo hoo. She was definitely right.
     
  21. unluckyluciano

    unluckyluciano For My Hero JetsSuck

    53,333
    23,006
    0
    Dec 7, 2007
    ryans reasons for signing doesn't really matter.Either way aponte won in the negotiations. Was it worth the gamble? I think so. Was this any different then normal negotiations? No, I don't think so.
     
    NCFINFAN likes this.
  22. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

    15,886
    8,901
    113
    Dec 21, 2007
    NY
    +1 For that alone. And these people think Preying Mantis is bad. Yikes.
     
    ChrisKo, Alex13 and Fin D like this.
  23. BevoPhin

    BevoPhin Well-Known Member

    1,523
    795
    113
    Mar 15, 2013
    I think it does, because obviously this offset language requirement is still here, and other draft picks might not give in as easily as ryan because of ryans reasons to want to end the holdout. Thus, we could have an extended holdout on our hands. That was a case of extreme negotiating last year, which imo was unnecessary for a guy were starting a long bond with. Its not like once the contracts signed and hands shake, its done with..No I remember 2 hours ago you threatening to get rid of me for good over this. I dont think ryans holding a grudge at all, its just not anything ive come across in talking terms.
     
  24. I just can't bring myself to understand your method of thinking. Who cares if he is holding a grudge? If a player is holding a grudge over contract negotiating, he is immature and he doesn't understand the game is a business. I have NEVER heard of a player signing a contract, then coming out after a contract dispute and then saying "well we got the deal done but I hate that front office for trying to get the best deal they could". How ignorant would he look?? I mean why are we not worried that the dolphin's front office is holding a grudge that RTs agent didn't give in to all their demands? See how absurd that sounds??

    If there is a player who doesn't understand a team doesn't want to pay him while he is playing, and being paid by another team, and is willing to hold a grudge over that, I don't want him on the team. If a player is complaining to other players about this topic and starting to divide a lockroom over something like that, I would be in favor of cutting him with no compensation. Just GET HIM OUTTA THERE !!!! I have no problem with a player trying to get the best deal he can get, but if a player is going to hold a grudge over negotiations we don't need that level of immaturity.
     
  25. Drowning

    Drowning ONCE MORE UNTO THE BREACH

    1,705
    297
    0
    Dec 20, 2007
    I'm rather certain that as our contract negotiator she's exactly in the position to make such bold decisions.
     
  26. Larryfinfan

    Larryfinfan 17-0...Priceless Club Member

    No, I disagree strongly. The fact that Tanny is a QB and there is no worse boom or bust position in the NFL today, she was right in holding off to get the best deal for the team... If Tanny isn't the answer, and we'll likely know in less than 3 yrs, it's in the best interest of the team to negotiate the contract in that fashion. Besides, let's not push all the blame on Apponte....she did her part and Ryan agreed on his part. If he is the answer, he'll make up for any shortcomings in his next contract.... And it wasn't a matter of 'rejecting' Ryan, that's all part of negotiating and the deal got done. And maybe the offset language wasn't Ryan's biggest concern ?? We don't really know...sure, all players want the best deal they can get and more is always better but maybe Ryan feels this was the best deal he could get ?? Besides, Apponte is on the way up...she likely won't be here when it's Tanny's time again...
     
  27. Alex13

    Alex13 Tua Time !!! Club Member

    25,809
    39,060
    113
    Dec 21, 2007
    Berlin,Germany
    i donĀ“t think it will be an issue, we spent 196 million this offeseason, with the way our cap looks there is no need to do that and if they really feel he is that one player they wanted the most, why would they think he would be a bust, so just give hime the money and lets get to work.
     
  28. Claymore95

    Claymore95 Working on it... Club Member

    6,449
    11,202
    113
    Sep 8, 2012
    Peebles, Scotland

Share This Page