Heath Evans thinks EVERY one of our draft picks will fail! What!?!

Yeah well 10 years ago most fans' standards for whether a player is any good or not is whether or not he's been in the pro bowl, and it didn't matter if a guy participates in 60% of the team's snaps during the game, if he doesn't participate on that 1st snap of the game then he's not a "starter" and that means he's a "backup". And if he's ever forced to participate on the 1st snap of the game, which now means the player is a "starter", then you're in trouble.

And the world used to be flat, too. And everything used to be black and white once, as well. Then things were color, but really crappy color for a while...

 

Any time there is a salary cap, economics are going to be a fundamental aspect of the game. Such a fascinating game.

 

What does that have to do with the question that you and stringer keep avoiding ?

My debate here is that Heath Evans was talking out his *** with disdain, You guys are twisting things avoiding the bottom line, and that bottom line is the Pittsburg steelers loved mike Wallace, loved everything about him which reflects in the organization offering him over 10 mill a year to a 25 year old player that had the 2nd most tds scored in the league over the prior 2 year period, maybe Ireland should be given credit by evans for aquiring a player that was coveted by the totally awesome Pittsburg steeler organization..

To directly answer your question, I'm on the record saying that 10 mill is as high as I would go because Greg Jennings was on the market, however, our new coachs decision trumps mine in this case because of his direct knowledge of the situation, he had his choice of the two players and he chose wallace, after seeing Vincent Jackson's number, then Dwayne bowe's number I think that 2 mill more a year is what it had to take to aquire this player this year for the new coach.

 

If I am reading between your lines I think you are saying the game and the knowledge of the game has evolved and fans have to evolve with it? If that is what you are saying I think you are right. Fans have to know a little more; at least if you want to be more than just a "casual" fan.

 

not named Ben yes it was, woodleys contract was 6 years 61 mill, so for an offensive player who wasn't the Qb it's the highest for that side of the ball and on par with both sides..

The contract offer is indicative of a team wanting you really bad, Evans said the steelers didnt want him and therefore must be a bad decision for Ireland, I'm saying that they signed brown after the rejection by Wallace out of miss management and to prove a point that noone rejects the Pittsburgh steelers, the proof of that theory is giving a player a deal 2 years before their original deal is done...

 

What other leagues have a salary cap?

 

I hear ya' Though, you could probably the same thing for any big FA acquisition. Of course it has to work out or usually any team will be a bit screwed. He was one, if not the biggest name in FA as far as WRs go and other teams like the Vikes had expressed interest. That was, unfortunately, the going rate and Philbin himself thought it would be a good move as opposed to signing a Jennings, etc. Is it a bit of a gamble?..sure, but i just think that's the way it is these days in FA. It's the nature of the beast. We just won't know until it plays itself out and hope for the best. I do think he is a good fit for Miami given their current WR situation and the need for that type of skill set.

Funny, because I've thought of how it could be a bit like the Warfield situation. I hope it works out nearly as well.

 

We are on to a different subject, upping the Annie to lure the player is the obvious tactic for the acquisition of a player with homegrown roots, it must be done to get him otherwise it ain't gonna happen...

Also, the contract offered was one year later, and after the Vincent Jackson setting the market contract..10 mill wasn't gonna get it done..

 

Message to wallace. Don't "Futz" with us. They gave Brown less than what was reported they were offering.

You notice, they didn't pay Brown before they tried to pay Wallace? What does that tell you?

Maybe cheap was the wrong word, Hardball is a better word. Hines Ward tried it, the first steeler to hold out in 12 years and they cut off negotiations.

Because they lost Wallace.

They didn't "essentially" pay a 3rd round pick. They gave up the chance to recoup one. When you lose your #1 receiver you don't want to also lose #3. Come on now.

Ok final question. You guys keep saying Pittsburgh prioritized Brown over Wallace.

Who was offered a big contract first?

 

People really said they prioritized Brown over Wallace? Sounds like a few people don't know what prioritized means.

 

They are talking about Miami Losing out on Total Access. If they ask Heath Evans what he thinks and he says something crazy...this thread might go Super Saiyan 3.

 

doesn't seem like a hard question to get answered, but if you look thru the last four pages of this thread you will see no logical explanations from CK, Stringer, or Heath.

they offered him a 10 mill a year, yet they didnt really want him..funny right?

 

Cut me slick, cut me..

YES!!!!! That's exactly what's happening in here.

Could you imagine the Rooney boys coming to the agreement that their gonna offer mike Wallace one of the richest contracts ever for a steeler, certainly for a receiver, then they make the offer, than he rejects it..then AFTER that offer they make an offer to brown two years before his deal was up...lol..

Somebody was nonos happy being rejected..

I also wonder why noone is talking about why the steelers are asking brown to restructure his contract one year later, maybe because they were way over the cap, and need to get it down desperately?..maybe that's why 10 mill was their limit.

 

Wallace. Nobody has disputed that. The Steelers offered him $42M. That's what they believed his value to be. The Dolphins offered him $60M. That's what they believed his value to be. Given that Pittsburgh has more information on Wallace, I believe their assessment of his value to be more accurate than any other NFL team, including the Dolphins.

 

That actually isnt true. No culture ever actually proposed that as their main belief. Most actually believed the world was either a bowl or upside down bowl shape.

Everything was never black and white either, I think you mean television.

 

I can't believe you guys are arguing whether or not a franchise that passed up drafting a hometown hero in Dan Marino and chose a DT instead made the proper decisions on what they did with their roster last season.


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which brings us to Heath Evans because HE DID say that the steelers did not want him and based that on the financials just as Stringer is trying to do. weathre HE has inside info from the steeeler...meh. it is clear that the coach and QB of the steeler will most definitely miss him and have said that we are getting a talented player. the steelers may have had a number that they were not going over, that does not mean that they wanted him gone or that he was a bad player.

as for the example you backe from Stringer with a QB vs a WR...everyone knows you keep the franchise QB with out exceptions, cut and restructure all you need. as for a top notch WR you do what the steelers did you draw a financial line then you back away when you reach your limit. they have other WRs on the team to limit his loss. usually teams have one starter and competent back ups.

 

how does any team do that?

 

probably because they knew it was a risk that they could not get Wallace back and wanted to make sure they kept some talent in the WR corp and acted per-emptively. that would make sense to me. they had the inside track on Wallace and felt comfortable that he probably was gonna test the waters and not be resigned. so you put your money where you are comfortable and keep the talent you can.

 

the same basis that it means something. Tomlin and Roth have both said we are getting a great talent and that he is more than what is being said about him. I'll take that over inside info any day. as for them to say those things, before you drop that hat, if he was a cancer or bad and no talent then they would have more likely said yea we'll miss him...good luck Mike....

 

They can't, which is why the Steelers are making a more informed decision than anyone else.

 

no one is denying that Pitt has the inside info. what is being debated is weather if they chose to not match an offer makes that player some how less than or even a bad decision. Pitt made an offer and that was their calculated limit. Miami valued his service more than Pitt and also had the cap room to make a better/higher offer to Wallace. weather that makes him a cancer or limited talent is not even in play here. Pitt has arguably better talent at WR than we did, they had made investments into them and were willing to risk losing Wallace and they did. we need to stop trying to base how a player fits or his talent level or his personality on weather one team financially values him higher or lower than another team. Wallace needs to play. period. then we can debate if he was worth going after

 

Even though Pitt did want Wallace back and made him a serious offer, they were in a different position in that Brown is a similar style of player as is Wallace, so if they tried and couldn't get a deal done and didn't want to lose any other players in the process, they had a good second option. That's the luxury they had and wouldn't have to lose any other players in the process. Brown is a good receiver. I'm sure they wanted Wallace and his 8tds back, but they're just in a different position. It's not like this is the first time something like this has happened and it doesn't really speak negatively towaards Wallace's talents. Could be a win-win, but we'll just see how it plays itself out.

 

Pitt had WR lined up 3 deep. They were willing to pay 9-10 million and that's it. Wallace said no. They paid Brown and they moved on. If he wasn't giving them a home town discount they said no thanks.

We had them lined up 1 deep, starting at position #2, maybe even 3. Still we only paid $1-2 million more than Pitt was willing to pay. We can't figure out how to draft them, so that's what we need to do. Same as Minn. They got Percy Harvin who isn't your typical WR, and that's it. They let him go and offered Wallace even more money than we did.

Neither Brown or Sanders is as fast as Wallace. Brown might be able to develop into a better WR, but so can Wallace. We'll see. IF they stick with Haley a lot of that speed was wasted anyway.

 

Looks like the player took less money to become a dolphin.

 

One of the many quotes by his exqb.

 

Yeah man, Awhile back, I posted that same quote. Next post Philbin's comments on Wallace.

 

Of course they do, what's there to wonder about? I love this site, have a ton of respect for the people who run it, regardless of whether they egg on discussion for discussions sake.

 

Ask Heath Evans, he's the one with the "inside sources" within the Steelers organization right?

1. I pay close attention to your posts b/c I value and respect your opinion.

2. I have no problem telling exactly who I'm referring to that I'm referring to them, we're all grown men here. But it's pretty obvious who the "I'm smarter than NFL GM's" people are w/o me naming names and its probably against the TOS anyway.

3. You can disagree with the Mike Wallace signing all you want. KB (sans ad hominem) told us for months how stupid it would be to sign him, he cant run routes, doesn't fit the offense, yada yada yada. Clearly he knows something the guys running the team are unaware of. Or how about CK's boy, Mike Goodson, the gun toting, weed selling RB now employed by the Jets. I'll put the over under on future mentions of him as a great potential pickup this offseason at ZERO. So forgive me, and the vast majority of the posters in this thread, if we're not ready to cry Uncle b/c one ex player comes on TV and says everything Ireland has done this offseason is fool's play. I'd rather see our guys suit up and play some ball before I lift my skirt for the Pats and the rest of the league, if you don't mind.

 

Or maybe the reason Pitt moved on from Wallace so fast was that when they made the initial offer his agent politely declined and told them he would prefer to play in a warm weather location.

 

No, no, no, if Wallace didn't sign with Pittsburgh it's most definitely b/c they're the ones who didn't want him. Heath Evans says so.

 

Here's where we're at with Heath Evans take on Mike Wallace:

Evans says the proof we overpaid for Wallace is that the Steelers didn't offer him the same money Miami did.
These are the reasons that's a stupid point:

- That would imply that ALL FA acquisitions are bad. Since every team not resigning the player knows more about the player than the new team. Even if parts of the coaching staff went from the old team to the new team, you'd still have to answer why the old team let him go if he's so valuable, if you follow this ignorant "logic'.

- The Steelers offered him the most money they ever offered a WR before. Which shows how much they valued him...which is by definition more than they ever valued any other WR they've had before.

- The first thing they tried to do this offseason was resign Wallace. That means they decided he was their first priority.

- They couldn't match Miami's offer, because they didn't have enough cash. Some, will have us believe that proves they didn't value him because they didn't plan for him. Yet, we're talking about a team over the cap, so they didn't plan anything well it seems.

- It cost Miami $12 million a year to sign Wallace. It would have cost Pitt $12 million a year plus potentially losing one or more of Timmons, Taylor, Pollamalu & Sanders to have the room in their cap for $12 million a year. For Evans to be correct about his original premise, the Steelers and Dolphins would have to have near the same amount of available room in their caps, because for all we know, if it only cost $12 million to keep him, the Steelers may have matched the offer. They were only around $2 million off anyway and were probably hoping Wallace would give them a hometown discount.

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Now again, none of this is saying we didn't overpay for Wallace or that he's the greatest WR ever. All that is being pointed out is that the Steelers not resigning Wallace is not proof or evidence or even an indication we overpaid for him. The only proof or evidence or indication we overpaid for him is if production doesn't live up to his contract. What the Steelers did or didn't do, has no bearing on it though, and that is one of the many reasons a bunch of us have a problem with Heath Evans BS analysis, and why we're flabbergasted over the defense of it.

 

I didn't hear him say "he's worth $60M"???

 

That's not really a great point.. I'm sure Ben went in there and said I'd really like to keep Wallace, he has scored over 30 tds while being there, and won a superbowl with the guy, and obviously has a lot of respect for the guy, pretty sure it ends there.

 

I agree. That looks like a point I would make.

 

His compensation is the entire point. Simply because he's a good player, doesn't make him worth $60M. You could apply a lot of superlatives to Jake Long, but that doesn't mean he's worth what St. Louis paid him.

 

so he has absolutely no value to Miami and there fore a bad selection, ala Heath Evans? what the "monetary value" is I really could care less. talk to me in a year and I will tell you if I think Miami made a mistake acquiring him.

 

He has value to Miami, it is just less than they are paying him. Overpaying players is bad when you play a game that caps expenditures.

I'm sure in a year everyone will be saying he's a good player that is overpaid, just like we have seen in recent history with guys like Karlos Dansby, Joey Porter, etc.

 

Ben also restructured his contract to create cap space for the Steelers to retain some of their guys. Who do you think he had in mind?

 

Overpaying him does suck, and I agree he is slightly overpaid IMO. That's because I think as a whole, single WRs are overrated. WR corps is different.

In any event, if we were any good at identifying WRs in the draft we wouldn't have to overpay. Hines Ward Santonio Wallace Brown