He's the qb most likely to progress, but a breakout season requires a lot.... Can we get 25+Td passes this year ? If we can keep Tannehill upright, and he does breakout, your talking about an entire offense exploding. Keller,Wallace,Gibson,Miller will Explode in this passing offense with career #'s.
I don't think all those players necessarily need the entire offense to "explode" for Tanny to have a breakout year. We need them to catch some TD's.
25 TDs shouldn't be that hard actually. Wallace should be good for 10. I mean last year was poor for him overall and he got 8. Gibson scored 5 last year. TDs and 1st dns per catch are his thing. Fasano got 5 last year with Tanny, so it shouldn't be crazy to think Keller won't get at least 5. That's already 20 and not including the backs, other WRs/TEs.
Yeah, I think it's a pretty comfortable conclusion by voters that a guy that showed more at times than he was able to put out. That was logically due to his supporting cast. Between the pedestrian WRs, TEs that couldn't get out from under any coverage at all and an OL that was weak at the start of the season and as attrition and time went on, got even worse and not to mention a D that had lapses at inopportune times. If you look at what we've done, it's pretty easy conclusion to reach on paper...The WR corps is arguably at or above par with most teams in the league and certainly much better than what we sported last season, the TE position at least from a receiving perspective is better maybe even much better. The OL while it has questions, they've also made moves and are counting on some young guys developing that could make this one at the very least deeper than last year's edition of the OL. The D has made major steps of redevelopment towards Coyle's vision instead of the hybrid he put on the field last season. The overall speed of the D has certainly improved and again, on paper the losses of Burnette and Dansby might be more missed for leadership than for play on the field. Wheeler and Ellerbe are primed to be leaders on this team as they were primed on their previous teams. The CB position appears to be better as Grimes seems to be showing in OTAs and Marshall is back healthy and performing well in OTAs. There are still a lot of questions about this team going into TC that we'll see answered, but it does appear to be brighter than the past few years.... and Tanny will be a major part of that light at the end of the tunnel...
I think we'll be fine at leadership on D with our new Mike having been tutored under arguably the greatest leader to come through the National Football League in a generation.
We can joke about Hartline, but - how many times did you see Brian Hartline in the open last year, like without two-three DBs surrounding him. It seemed to me that defenses knew that he would be the primary threat, and just made sure he did not get loose (with only one man in coverage!) JMO, but I think he will do much better with a lot of attention drawn toward Wallace this year, and with Keller as TE. I would not be surprised to see Hartline turn into a very legitimate red zone threat.
I sincerely hope you're right....but even when the focus was not him in the past, he scored very little. He averages less than 2 Tds a year, and last year wasn't an anomaly that severely brought down his average.
And...the expectations game kicks off. Last yr Tannehill sort of flew under the radar with RG3 and Wilson gaining all of the attention, this year the spotlight is on him as the guy who will improve the most. To me, this is what screwed Butt Fumble up, he Qb'd to 2 AFC Title games, then fell to earth and now it's "he's a bust", expectations are a wench to manage. Granted he does have some personal qualities that do not scream "leader", however objectively he's a decent enough Qb.
off topic and for fun.............. I don't know. For example, if I had to chose between these two, I would have a hard time deciding if I would rather have Sanchez or Henne as the QB of my team.
Really depends Atl, last yr Nacho played like a Rookie, is that his mean, or was it just a bad year in Jest land? Henne is Henne, not a bad Qb but allergic to throwing Td passes.
I agree, 25 shouldn't be hard. Disagree with the logic though. You can't really look at all those WRs and assume they will have the same production on a completely different team with all of them competing for grabs. In some cases like Wallace, the QB isn't as good (yet). In others (Kellers) QB play should be better. But you're talking about a guy who threw 12 last year. You're basically saying it should be easy for him to double that production. If he's got what it takes to be an NFL QB you're right, it should be and will be easy for him to eventually hit that mark. But it's less about the WRs (the upgrades will definitely help) and more about Tannehill making the next step and making the WRs around him better rather than the other way around.
No. I'm looking at what these WRs are obviously capable of, since they have done it in the past. You cannot say that last year. Both Bess and Hartline have averaged around 2 TDs a year. That's fact without spin. We have to as a group stop pretending scoring was a QB problem last year. Its been proven to be a receiver issue with tape and statistics.
I'd take Henne in a heart beat. At least with Chad you know what your getting and can work around his shortcomings. Sanchez is wildly inconsistent and even when he is on, he is just ok.
I didn't see Tannehill so much as the primary problem with the lack of scoring last season so much as I did with the lack of protection and lack of viable targets. Tannehill had on average around 2.4 seconds. Wilson had over 4 seconds. Tannehill was bottom 3 in the league with time to deliver as he couldn't extend plays due to a lack of protection and lack of targets. Wilson, Luck, Griffin, etc... didn't have that problem. With the focus on protection and the targets to get the ball to, 25 TDs is a reasonable expectation.
Not what I said, at all. Again, if tannehill breaks out.... Your going to see the 3 new targets explode with career #'s.
Thats exactly how I arrived at my conclusion.... We're expecting more production from these guys than they've givin their previous teams. Keller especially. Love that you left out Hartline completely.
Just to clarify, we are NOT talking about having unprotected sex with hookers, right? Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk 2
I'd be happy with 20. But if there is a TD party going 25 isn't out of range. Hell Matt Moore was on a 21ish pace himself. OMG post of the offseason right there, I'm dying.
What's been proven is that WR play is much more affected by the QB throwing them the ball than the other way around. How quickly you forget about Chad Henne. Did upgrading the WR corps with Brandon Marshall magically double his TD production? No. He went from 12 to 15. I'm not trying to start a huge argument with you about this because I agree with you that it's possible and should be easy for an NFL caliber QB to toss 25 TDs. But Tannehill hasn't proven he can do it yet, and doubling his rookie mark isn't just going to happen because the WR corps has been upgraded.
I guess you were away from the site for awhile, because this was proven here. Shou tried to say that the offense didn't score TDs was solely because of Tannehill and tried numerous different ways to prove it. All were debunked through stats, tape and common sense. Yes, generally the QB makes the player, but there are times when you have veteran WRs so poor at scoring that they average less than 2 a year regardless of their QB or WR position, like Hartline (who was our best WR last year). In the end, what's more likely, Hartline doesn't score TDs (like he's proven every year he's been a pro before Tannehill) or Tannehill is so bad he could only get 2 Tds out of his starting 2 receivers (which make him one of the worst all time)? Mind you his passing TDs were fine to other positions like TE and RB. In the end, we didn't go out and get a QB, but we did bring in receiving help. For a comparison, look up Vincent Jackson's numbers and compare them to Hartline's. Hartline had one more catch then VJ did, and yet VJ crushed him in every major stat, showing what a dynamic WR can do with the ball in his hands.
I generally agree with you that it all starts with the QB...... From what I saw last year. RT was getting the ball out and putting in places that set his receivers up to get more yards one many occasions. His receivers didn't do much after they got the ball in their hands. With that being said I also saw where RT needed to improve his game if he is going to make it as a starter. Biggest thing was his low release (which did improve as the season went on)
It's tough. It's as tough as chicken and the egg. Yes VJ put up very good numbers. But Josh Freeman has shown he can throw 25 with the likes of Mike Williams Kellen Winslow and ... yeah that's about all they had. And yes VJ is miles ahead of Hartline (I wanted him over Brandon Marshall when there were trade rumors). It's both. Why can't it be both. Both QB and WR need to be in sync or no prolific passing. A great QB can elevate WRs only so much (see Tom Brady throwing to Reche Caldwell and then the year after). A great WR can only elevate a QB so much. A great QB isn't going to make Hartline score TDs. A great QB will make Hartline the best he can be. And vice versa. We can load up our team like AZ had with Larry Fitzgerald Anquan and a good #3 and if we have Matt Leinart throwing it, it isn't happening. Tannehill still needs to step up. It's not a given he will perform. There is hope. And there were signs. But he still needs to take that step. Fingers crossed (plus I'm a huge Wallace fan only because I picked him up his breakout year in round #4 of a fantasy draft so I have a man crush ... it's a selfish thing).
I never said it couldn't be both. I'm just saying in this instance, Tannehill did all any QB could have done with the weapons he had. Let's not forget, Hartline (and Bess was on his way to, till he got hurt) still had his best year ever as a pro with Tannehill throwing. I just take exception to this notion that Hartline would have had significantly better stats with a different QB. Every WR has their own ceiling, but those ceiling aren't at the same height for each receiver. Hartline reached his ceiling last year. Legedu and Jerry Rice have different ceilings, a great QB won't make them interchangeable.
There has been way too much positivity from the outside. Not only do I not know how to handle it, it scares me a bit.
I agree with you that the WRs were sorely lacking last year. I just don't agree that upgrading the position means a QB can easily double his TD production. Again, I go back to the fact that Chad Henne was in a similar situation. He had Ted Ginn and Davone Bess in 2009. In 2010 he was given Brandon Marshall, which was a huge upgrade. It resulted in 3 more TDs. Yes, Tannehill is a completely different player in an entirely different offense. But the QB still has to get the job done. Let me also say this: I'd be a lot less concerned if Tannehill's TD/INT ratio wasn't also very poor last year. Upgrading a WR corps doesn't improve a QBs decision making. That he has to do entirely on his own and here's hoping he can.
First of all, what Henne did or didn't do has absolutely zero bearing or correlation to Tannehill. They are two different people in two different systems in two different scenarios. Secondly, Tannehill wasn't a poor decision maker. 13 INTs for a rookie is not even close to bad. 13 for a vet isn't all that bad either. It only looks bad because he didn't have more TDs, but he had the worst (or close to it) #1 & #2 WRs in the league last year. Tannehill had no weapons. Hartline and Bess were NEVER open in the redzone. Hartline and Bess did NOTHING with the ball in their hands. This is not Tannehill's fault and is always left out of the criticism of his season.
What Henne did proves that upgrading the WR position doesn't automatically make a QB better which was the point you were originally trying to make.
We didn't need that proven though. No one thinks if you get better WRs it will automatically improve any QBs play. What we are saying is that based on the evidence of last year with specifically Tannehill, specifically Hartline, specifically Bess and specifically with the cadre of jackass that filled the other WR spot, bringing in better WRs will dramatically improve the passing game and passing TD totals. You're saying it may not happen, because...Henne, when this has nothing to do with Henne.
Here's some PFF stats comparing the two QBs first seasons, along with where they are ranked in that specific stat in each year among qualifying QBs... [TABLE] [TR] [TH="align: left"][/TH] [TH="align: center"]2009 Chad Henne[/TH] [TH="align: center"]2012 Ryan Tannehill[/TH] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: left"]PFF Grade[/TD] [TD="align: center"]-0.2 (18/29)[/TD] [TD="align: center"]+11.3 (13/27)[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: left"]PFF Adjusted QBR[/TD] [TD="align: center"]79.66 (19/27)[/TD] [TD="align: center"]83.34 (16/27)[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: left"]Total Accuracy[/TD] [TD="align: center"]72.0% (15/27)[/TD] [TD="align: center"]72.1% (13/27)[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: left"]Deep Passing Accuracy[/TD] [TD="align: center"]29.8% (25/26)[/TD] [TD="align: center"]43.1% (7/23)[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="align: left"]Under Pressure Accuracy[/TD] [TD="align: center"]56.7% (19/27)[/TD] [TD="align: center"]72.9% (2/27) [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] Apart from that Henne was a 4 year starter in College. People should really look at the last 3rd of last season and focus more on that because Tannehill was still learning the game the first part of the season. Going into his second pro season, Tannehill now has nearly as many starts for the Fins (16) as he had in college (19). He wasn't supposed to even start, so he was already surpassing expectations. He spent half the season with a knee injury and still made plays while limiting his INTs. He had spotty protection and few receiver options. Now look at his stats over the last 4 games around the time his knee was healed and the brace came off. Night and day. The kid is gonna be very good this season as we have focused on protection and receiving options for him.
Respectfully disagree, those receivers (Wallace, Keller& Gibson) had better QB's throwing to them, BUT this is about Tannehill stepping up his game, having the WR's and his second year in the NFL & Sherman/Philbin's offense, I do expect we have put Tanny in the best position to step up his game to his abilities IMHO.
From now on, anyone that says Tannehill was at fault for last years lack of passing TDs, will first need to explain to me what a QB is supposed to do if his Top 2 WRs can't get open in the endzone without the ball and can't get into the endzone with the ball....before I'll consider their argument as anything more than unfounded rhetoric. No offense to you Phinsrock.
