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Hernandez Arrested - Pats Release

Discussion in 'Miami Dolphins Forum' started by Da 'Fins, Jun 26, 2013.

  1. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    I think you definitely have a point that the secondaries played different styles. But the Patriots defense allowed only 329 points to our 289 points and yet they scored 35 points of their own. So the net effect was giving up the same points while also giving their offense the ball an extra 20 times even aside from the 5 touchdown plays. If that's the case it begs the question, no matter WHAT situation our defense was in due to the offense...they should have played the same style as the Patriots, no? Would've been more effective.

    By the way the Patriots added Aqib Talib last year mid-season and now he'll actually know the defense this year. They also added Logan Ryan. If you're going to credit the Dolphins for adding Will Davis then I think it's disingenuous to dismiss Logan Ryan's addition with a mere parenthetical "(Who?)". And the Dolphins lost Sean Smith.

    As for Adrian Wilson, no he did not let up that touchdown to Hartline and I suggest you go back and watch the coach's tape if you want to see for yourself. In fact it was Adrian Wilson's speed and athleticism that nearly stopped Hartline from being able to score that long touchdown even though Wilson started off with a poor angle and a ton of ground to cover due to Kerry Rhodes' mistake.
     
  2. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    FWIW, the BPD is now claiming they found an SUV that Hernandez rented in the time frame of the dual murders in 2012, it's color is red however, the other media reports had the SUV as being gray.
     
  3. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    I can't say I watch a ton of Rams games but I know he's oft injured and I know that Welker's role is one of the more physically demanding roles in the league for any WR. I don't think it's safe to assume he'll come in and replace Welker's production. Ditto for Hernandez' production, nor do I think Gronk will be the beast that he's been for past few years. Not saying NE won't still have a good offense but they'll have to change the way they do things and it's hard to imagine they'll be as productive as they have in the past.
     
  4. RoninFin4

    RoninFin4 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Just remember to place bets on the ponies and your post under/over on a daily basis once you hit 100k posts...of course you'll have to dress hideously like Pete does these days.
     
  5. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    I do, if Gronk is healthy, he was even more of a freak then AH was, and Amendola was a 2k apy guy per yr when healthy in Stl and Brady is still the guy in the AFCE, their OL has no real questions on it, Rb corps is intact etc.

    Basically, w/o Tannehill jumping up this year we still will have a gap with them.
     
  6. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    You know they are regretting not having him right now - especially given the relatively tame contract he signed with Denver. Of course, given what we know of how Hernandez treated Welker - well, I don't know that I would want to sign with the Pats given they had gone to bed with a guy who was that much of an explosive head-case and had signed a long term deal.

    It may well be the Pats - by investing in Hernandez - also lost Welker. Serves them right in this case if that had anything to do with it. Welker is a stand up player who gets the job done.

    All the better for us, however.
     
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  7. Da 'Fins

    Da 'Fins Season Ticket Holder Staff Member Club Member

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    Amendola could be solid and Gronkowski, when healthy, is - imo- the best TE in football. But, he's starting the season on PUP with that back surgery. One never knows. So, it's not like they have a 100% healthy Gronkowski - which would definitely make a difference. If he is healthy for most of the season it will be a huge boost to them.
     
  8. texanphinatic

    texanphinatic Senior Member

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    "If healthy" is a HUGE if with both Gronk and Amendola. And after them, there is nothing. Losing Welker will be bigger than people think. Guy was a tough little ****, not afraid to cross the middle and take punishment while hanging onto the ball. IIRC much of Amendola's 2k was from returning which makes it much less impressing, especially as its a spot the Pats are usually solid at anyway. His health being a starting slot type receiver taking over Welker's punishing role is dubious at best. I think Grimes will erase him.
     
  9. BevoPhin

    BevoPhin Well-Known Member

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    Theres also a chance aaron dobson has a solid year for them. They must have high hopes for him since they spent a high pick on him.
     
  10. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Well, do keep in mind Welker was known as a returner for Miami as well.

    They look for small, quick, types who can get open quickly, Welker for all of his receptions had a fairly light YPA overall.
     
  11. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    You mean this coaches film?
    [​IMG]

    You're right, Rhodes screwed the pooch on this one, but I don't think it's unreasonable to say that Wilson should have prevented the TD. If Wilson is the SS for them this year he will be a liability in pass coverage. I can't imagine him being asked to play over top of Mike Wallace, he'd need a 20 yd head start to even have a chance. That restricts the number of coverages they can call and the number of ways they can disguise those coverages. Add in Mayo and Spikes, who aren't strong in coverage, their iffy #2 $ 3 CBs, plus no dominant pass rusher and you have the makings of an average at best best pass defense.

    I agree w/ your point that NE did a tremendous ob w/ producing TOs. My point was that their offense gave them a lot of points to work with. If NE's offense can't produce at that same level, and we have reason to suspect they won't, it will put more pressure on their defense to produce stops. It's one thing to sit back and wait on mistakes, they got burned a lot even w/ that strategy. If they're asked to force the issue it could lead to even more problems.

    I also concede that Ryan has as much of a chance of making an impact as Davis. Most likely neither one will be a difference maker IMO. Grimes, Marshall, Taylor and Carroll are all ahead of Davis, Wilson and Patterson will be in the mix also. Overall I believe Miami's secondary will be the stronger unit and they'll most likely have a better pass rush to work behind. I think both teams excel at stopping the run so that's a wash.
     
  12. RickyBobby

    RickyBobby VIP DIY

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    I must be missing something, what is the relevance of pollard?
     
  13. byroan

    byroan Giggity Staff Member Administrator Luxury Box

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    [​IMG]
     
  14. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    BPD at AH house right now
     
  15. emocomputerjock

    emocomputerjock Senior Member

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    Pollard was the guy that broke Bradys knee, tore Welkers ACL, hurt Gronks ankle, gave Ridley a concussion, and apparently touched Hernandez and cursed Aaron to murder people.
     
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  16. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    In 2010?
     
  17. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    And he told me one time that I need to get out more. :whistling:
     
  18. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    How bout what Matt light had to say DF??
     
  19. djphinfan

    djphinfan Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    metaphor???
     
  20. CANDolphan

    CANDolphan Well-Known Member

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    And the car linked to a double murder months ago was rented by Hernandez. Good ****ing riddance you thug
     
  21. Justright

    Justright Banned

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    First of all, a league-high 59 percent of the Patriots’ offensive snaps during the 2012 season came while they were ahead on the scoreboard. Additionally, the New England offense was very balanced relative to game situation. They were the league’s 12[SUP]th[/SUP] pass-heaviest team with the lead, 15[SUP]th[/SUP] pass-heaviest when behind, and 20[SUP]th[/SUP] pass-heaviest when the game was tied. Overall, they called pass on 58 percent of their overall offensive snaps, which would seemingly qualify them as run balanced. Of course, teams tend to run more when they’re ahead on the scoreboard, and, as mentioned, no team led more often than New England last year.

    Taking it one step further, check out how often the New England offense called pass during each of the last five years:

    2008: 57% | 2009: 58% | 2010: 55% | 2011: 61% | 2012: 58%

    https://www.profootballfocus.com/bl...tm_campaign=what-now-for-the-patriots-offense
     
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  22. Justright

    Justright Banned

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    Lots of salve on the ol' o-ring, huh?
     
  23. Limbo

    Limbo Mad Stillz

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    [FONT=Tahoma, Calibri, Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]It's always interesting to talk Pats X's and O's because every year they take whatever's on the roster and turn it into a top-5 offense - changing packages, systems, tempo, balance, timing, etc. This year seems to be their tallest task in terms of skill guys, so it should be fun to watch. The Pats consistent success is painful for us phin fans, but the general football nerd in all of us has to appreciate what that team comes up with every year with all the moving parts around Brady, it's pretty crazy.

    I don't think they can replace Hernandez - there just aren't many guys that talented (size/speed combo with ball skills and serious RAC/RB ability). But they probably won't have to find another TE like that. Was Aaron perfect for the system, or was the system structured in part for him?

    I envision the 2013 Pats running the ball alot. The Blount trade was a little odd to me at first because he really has little-to-no value in the passing or blocking game (as opposed to all the other versatile skill guys like Woodhead, Vereen, Ridley, Hernandez who give you a 50/50 run/pass option, hence the no-huddle personnel matchup-oriented offense they ran last year). Blount just didn't seem like a fit to me, but now I do think they'll run an up-tempo offense that wears you down mainly with the run game even more than last year (a little Tebow??). I also think Shane Vereen's going to go off this year running and catching from different positions; they've severely under-used him so far, imo, legit talent.

    And I do think we'll finally split with this damn team.[/FONT]
     
  24. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    What that still frame shows is that from the moment of your still, Brian Hartline had to run 135 feet to reach the front pylon of the end zone whereas Adrian Wilson would have had to run 138 feet to reach the front pylon, both in the same amount of time. Brian Hartline runs about a 4.50 or 4.52 so your still shot essentially shows that Adrian Wilson needed to be a guy that still runs in the 4.4's in order to prevent Brian Hartline scoring that touchdown.

    And what ends up happening is that Adrian Wilson catches up to Brian Hartline enough to dive and get a solid hand wrapped around the front of Brian Hartline's quad muscle at the 8.5 yard line. So going by your still frame, Wilson crossed about 115 feet of distance in the same time it took Hartline to cross 111 feet. So indeed, Adrian Wilson did outrun Brian Hartline from the point of your still frame to the time he made a tackle attempt on Brian. And considering Hartline is still in his athletic prime and ran in the 4.49 to 4.52 range coming out of college, if you think the guy that ran faster than him is a liability in coverage and too slow to protect the end zone, then I don't know what to tell you except that I disagree. The number of safeties out there that run in the 4.3's is pretty low. So if your standard is that a safety has to run that fast to not be considered a liability, I think that's not a good theory.
     
  25. MrClean

    MrClean Inglourious Basterd Club Member

    The voice of experience Padre?


    So, you're telling us that you ain't anal retentive anymore?

    :shifty:
     
  26. Jt0323

    Jt0323 Fins Up! Luxury Box

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    There is nothing good on TV. #notkillingpeopleproblems
     
  27. Pauly

    Pauly Season Ticket Holder

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    Slight problem with the raw math is that carrying a ball slows you down. I haven't seen any scientific breakdown, but my gut feel is that carrying the rock will add at least .1 to .2 to the 40 yard time. It depends a bit on physique and the method of carrying the ball. Hartline is probably the classic build for getting slowed down by carrying the ball i.e. relatively short and slight; not possessing Oronde Gadsen type gorilla grip hands; not having supernatural balance of a Steve Smith.

    Just one of the many reasons why there is a difference between football speed and track speed. As an aside it was the main reason I was very high on Ted Ginn Jr when we drafted him, his football speed was pretty much the same as his track speed which is rare. Just a pity we couldn't measure his courage.
     
  28. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Depends...:shifty:
     
  29. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    That and momentum, for example an elite Qb really does put the ball into place where the momentum is carrying the receiver down hill and in stride consistently, this is my one concern about Tannehill, he really did not do that consistently as a rookie.

    Granted he did basically double his number of career starts in 2012 so his upside is there, but there were times when he was simply inaccurate and it cost points and yards
     
  30. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    If you watch the play you'd see Wilson could have easily prevented the TD had he hit full stride sooner. He actually picks up the danger and moves toward it fairly quickly, long before Hartline catches ball and turns up field, but he does it a snails pace. (Pause at :06)

    [video=youtube;52rBzeuWAmE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52rBzeuWAmE[/video]

    He musta thought he was the Preakness, or Churchill Downs, waiting for the final furlong to make his move. Or better still, maybe he really is that friggin slow.


    I'm more interested in how fast guys run on the field, track speed means naught to me. And lack of speed is only one of Wilson's issues. He reminds me of a slower Yeremiah Bell. Nice player to have in the box in a Cover 3, but outside of the red zone he lacks sufficient range for a Quarters or Cover 2 scheme, and he's definitely not fit to be left alone in the deep middle. Which brings me back to the overall point, that he is a liability in coverage. And against the Dolphins, or other teams with elite speed at the WR position, NE will have to hide him.

    Ah, now that sounds good rolling off the old tongue. "Teams with elite speed at WR, like the Dolphins..."
     
  31. ckparrothead

    ckparrothead Draft Forum Moderator Luxury Box

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    We ARE talking about how fast a guy runs on the field.

    Simple fact. Adrian Wilson ran faster than Brian Hartline on that play. But he started out with too much of a disadvantage to catch him. Is that better?
     
  32. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    That's better.
     
  33. maynard

    maynard Who, whom?

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    I don't think Wilson has a huge speed issue. IMO, he either misjudged the ball thinking it was going out of bounds or was dogging it a bit.
     
  34. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    When you let Hartine score on you, you need to reassess how you approach your craft and maybe make some changes.

    Q: What's the difference between OT Jumbo Elliot in 2000 and WR Brian Hartline in 2012?
    A: If we're talking total TDs scored....then nothing, nothing at all.
     
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  35. GMJohnson

    GMJohnson New Member

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    Stop ragging on the Hitman FinD, now that Wilson signed with NE he's due for TWO TDs this season :yes:.
     
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  36. finyank13

    finyank13 Reality Check

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    this thread took an interesting turn hahaa
     
  37. Ronnie Bass

    Ronnie Bass Luxury Box Luxury Box

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    BREAKING: Ernest Wallace fugitive tied to Aaron Hernandez invest. CAPTURED Miramar, FL. #Fox25
     
  38. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    FTR:

    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/sources-hernandez-had-hints-gang-143016299--nfl.html

    It was more than just repeated drug busts.
     
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  39. TotoreMexico

    TotoreMexico Your retarded

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    [​IMG]
     
  40. btfu149

    btfu149 Well-Known Member

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    To get back on topic we do have to remember that the Pats do have Jake Ballard still, if he's healthy he's a solid TE himself. He isn't quite Hernandez but again if Gronkowski is healthy they still have very good TE's. A lot of question marks with the Pats regarding injuries but so do we, I know not everyone is overreacting on this but the division still goes through New England until proven otherwise. Of course I hope I'm wrong and all of our guys stay healthy and we storm to the division title. Having said that I do still believe we have a shot at the division or wild card for sure. We are headed in the right direction.
     

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