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Travon Martin Trial

Discussion in 'Lounge' started by RickyBobby, Jun 26, 2013.

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  1. RickyBobby

    RickyBobby VIP DIY

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    Anyone else watching?

    I stream it at work.

    Today the girl travon was on the phone with before he died and a neighbor who alleges that George Zimmerman was on top on Travon, were called to testify.

    Also they played tapes of Zimmerman calling police to report suspicious black males in his neighborhood.

    DoD you relize these were townhouses? I always thought they were actual homes and the trial was wooded. This all happen by a concrete walkway on a dog path between the back of some townhouses.

    Also Zimmerman claims travon had a deadly weapon...the sidewalk.





    Just figured this deserves a thread.
     
  2. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Believe it or not, that is a valid defense.
     
  3. RickyBobby

    RickyBobby VIP DIY

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    Most definitely. I think it all come down to who was following whom, initiating the action
     
  4. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    My thing with this is whether Martin was ontop of him banging his head into the pavement/concrete. To me, that makes it self defense.
     
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  5. maynard

    maynard Who, whom?

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    Maybe in legal terms that I can accept, but I can get over the fact that he should have just turned around and went home



    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
     
  6. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    For me, he had a legitimate reason for being there, he did not want more houses broken into in his neighborhood, after that he handled it poorly.

    A community spirit is a fine thing, but a camera and a firearm is far better then just a firearm, the idea is to protect the neighborhood not to confront directly, that is only in extreme situations.
     
  7. maynard

    maynard Who, whom?

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    I feel like you are agreeing yet saying you aren't. Notify the authorities and move on.

    Edit:

    Where we differ I think is the gun. Without the gun, he adheres dispatch and moves on.

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
     
    Fin D likes this.
  8. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    I still say its very likely that Martin was standing his ground.

    There should be no reason that if Zimmerman can claim he was standing his ground that Martin couldn't have claimed the same thing. I've yet to be given a reasonable explanation as to how an armed man can shoot and kill an unarmed teenage boy....and its the boy that was the threat. It makes no sense, unless you're looking for a reason to.
     
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  9. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Ideally, then again, it did wind up that Martin was banging his head on the pavement, if Zimmerman had not shot him, would Martin had wound up killing him instead?

    Or put another way, would it have been reasonable for Zimmerman to believe he very well could die in that situation?
     
  10. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Martin was on top of him, banging Zimmerman's head into the pavement.

    That is not a threat, that is an assualt.
     
  11. maynard

    maynard Who, whom?

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    True but I have admit there is reasonable doubt. Zimmerman wasn't sweeping the area Jack Bauer style I don't think. As much as the gun irritates me, he was allowed to have it. If he was caught off guard and really felt that his life was in danger I can reason it out even though i don't like it. We just don't know.



    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
     
  12. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Right, that was Martin standing his ground against the threat of being chased by an armed man for no reason. It boggles my mind how so many people refuse to accept that being chased is threatening.

    Just use logic. We know for a fact at one point Zimmerman chased Martin. That means Martin fled. You don't flee if you're not in fear.
     
  13. Paul 13

    Paul 13 Chaotic Neutral & Unstable Genius Staff Member

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    I would totally watch if I wasn't at work.
     
  14. maynard

    maynard Who, whom?

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    The contention I'm not clear on is point A of Zimmerman tracking him to point B of having his head being beat on

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
     
  15. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Its the problem with the law.

    Based on this law, I can attack someone till they fight back and then I can kill them and claim Stand Your Ground. An armed Zimmerman chased Martin. At that point Martin had every right by the law and the way its worded to beat Zimmerman's head against the concrete, because he was standing his ground. If we don't make this about who started it, then whoever is alive at the end is innocent.

    Zimmerman was not attacked out of the blue while minding his own business...Martin was threatened while minding his own business though.
     
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  16. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    That portion was not clear to me either, it seemed like Zimmerman chased or followed him then lost him, then found him again that's when Martin (apparently) went in on him and wound up on top of him when Zimmerman felt Martin was going for his firearm while on top of him, he shot him in the chest from the prone position.

    And keep in mind, Martin may not liked the Zimmerman coming up to talk to him, however there is a perfect right to initiate a conversation with anyone.

    All fine, but look at the lesson from the Hernandez charges, a camera is far far more valuable then a firearm at times.
     
  17. maynard

    maynard Who, whom?

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    Oh and BTW, I heard some clips of testimony from the 19 year old girl. No matter what side you are on here, it's pretty clear she is one of the dumbest people on the planet

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
     
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  18. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Let's also not forget, that Zimmerman was operating under the unfounded assumption that Martin was a criminal. He inferred that in his 911 call. He didn't think he was merely suspicious, he thought he was guilty. That's important because it paints a portrait into Zimmerman's mind that night.

    Take it backwards from the shooting until you get to the first questionable or illegal act and that is who is guilty. If you do that, than you realize the first questionable or illegal act was Zimmerman chasing Martin. If Zimmerman stays in his car or doesn't purse, none of this happens.
     
  19. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    Played tapes of calls Zimmerman made reporting suspicious black males? As in he's done this before?
     
  20. Justright

    Justright Banned

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    Yes, I agree that Tayvon should have just went home. ;)
     
  21. Justright

    Justright Banned

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    Cops shoot unarmed people all the time and are found to be the ones protecting themselves.
     
  22. Justright

    Justright Banned

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    We don't know that as a fact. Zimmerman claims that he got out of his truck to look for an address and was then confronted by Martin. You're claiming this as fact is just wrong. You, nor I, know anything but what Zimmerman and potential witnesses say. Have you watched the video of Zimmerman doing his walk through? It's pretty consistent to what was on the call he made that night.
     
  23. Justright

    Justright Banned

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    Following someone is not an assault or an attack. If someone is following me and I ask them what their problem is, fine. No harm no foul. If I ask someone why they are following me and then punch them in the face, get on top of them and proceed to bash their head onto concrete I am 100% at fault and if I'm shot I deserve it.

    This is what Zimmerman claims happened. If the jury believes this is what happened then he walks and rightfully so. The fact he had a gun is of no consequence because he was legally allowed to have a gun. The same way Martin's Ice Tea was of no consequence... The race baiting, feelings, knee-jerk reactions, media coverage matter not...just like Zimmerman carrying a gun matters not.
     
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  24. Colorado Dolfan

    Colorado Dolfan ...dirty drownin' man?

    Doesn't prove he hasn't called regarding suspicious white or Hispanic males, though... If the defense can prove he's made calls on suspicious persons regardless of ethnicity they will no doubt jump on that to provide some reasonable doubt and shed a light of "cherry-picking" info by the prosecution...

    I just want the truth to come out. I'm done with the knee jerk reactions of "racist" and "hoodlum." If Zimmerman pulled his gun first, I hope he fries. If, though, Martin attacked simply because Zimmerman was asking him questions and didn't like it...

    Either/or. Truth needs to prevail.

    Whichever way it goes, I don't see a happy ending for Zimmerman. One ending is obviously happier, but he'll still be reviled anywhere he goes...
     
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  25. Justright

    Justright Banned

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    Right...I mean, if a black guy is breaking in next door I'm not going to refuse to describe him out of fear of being called a racist. lol...And it just so happens that his neighborhood had frequent break-ins and those break-ins were committed by black people.
     
  26. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    If the calls of suspicious black males ended up being nothing then it does look like a pattern.
     
  27. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    Not the point. You'd need to see if the calls were unfounded or if it ended up that he had good reason.
     
  28. RickyBobby

    RickyBobby VIP DIY

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    That's what Zimmerman says. A neighbor said the person who was on top was the person who stood up after the gunshot, obviously not Travon.
     
  29. Colorado Dolfan

    Colorado Dolfan ...dirty drownin' man?

    If he was calling in the same time about suspicious white and Hispanic males, it certainly does not. If every call he made regarding a suspicious male ended up being nothing, that does look like a pattern of ineptitude, but not of racism... :shifty:
     
  30. RickyBobby

    RickyBobby VIP DIY

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    100% correct
     
  31. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    Again, you'd have to see all the calls to see what if any patterns were there, but it could be an interesting piece of data.
     
  32. RickyBobby

    RickyBobby VIP DIY

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    girl who was on phone claims Martin said a "creepy *** cracker is following me" then later she testified that after Martin ran, soon thereafter Martin said something to the nature of "oh ****, this *****s rights behind me"

    Just giving you testimony from trial.
     
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  33. Colorado Dolfan

    Colorado Dolfan ...dirty drownin' man?

    Exactly. That's why I don't have a horse in this race right now. Both sides are going to pick and choose information that helps their side win. If the only people he was calling to report were "suspicious black males," that is definitely cause for alarm. I'm not going to make that leap of logic at this point yet, though... ;)
     
  34. RickyBobby

    RickyBobby VIP DIY

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    I think thet are trying to say he's a vigilante, although the race first help.

    He even called on 2 people who one of them was a resident.

    I think it shows he was a little overzealous in his watchman duties. Someone like that may chase a kid down with a pistol after being told not to
     
  35. Im not saying Zimmerman is innocent. We are having a trial to decide that. However, in principle, Zimmerman was perfectly within his rights to follow Martin and within his rights to it while armed. He also was not legally compelled to follow the 911 operator's advice.

    The question is Did Zimmerman feel his life was in jeopardy when he fired his weapon?
     
  36. RickyBobby

    RickyBobby VIP DIY

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    They talked about all that on day 3 I believe.

    They took the calls from the last six months. I'll try to find link to video later
     
  37. Colorado Dolfan

    Colorado Dolfan ...dirty drownin' man?

    Possibly. To be fair, though, he wasn't told not to go after anyone. The quote, IIRC, was "You don't need to do that."

    Of course, you can argue this is simply semantics... Even then, a 911 operator is not a police officer and doesn't hold the authority as such... So he wasn't told "not to do" anything by anyone in authority.

    He had the right to approach and question Martin. If he brandished his firearm, Martin could have, understandably felt threatened and defended himself... Quite rightly, in fact.

    I'm just not going to assume anything. :p
     
  38. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    And that is the problem, Martin was shot when he was on top, Zimmerman was on the ground.

    Put it this way, the gunshot would look completely different compared to a prone man being shot, or a standing man being shot.
     
  39. daphins

    daphins A-Style

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    Bingo.

    Prosecution has to prove that Zimmerman instigated the physical confrontation. If the don't do that, then you can't put this guy away.

    Overzealous yes, foolish...yes, but none of that matters in stand your ground. Who attacked who is what matters.

    I for one have no clue.
     
  40. Boik14

    Boik14 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Or unless you have done something wrong or intended to do something wrong.

    I have no real interest in this case other then to finally get the facts about who did what. Then I can form an opinion.
     
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