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Travon Martin Trial

Discussion in 'Lounge' started by RickyBobby, Jun 26, 2013.

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  1. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    Fair enough but I was hoping you'd at least have proof of whether they were convicted or not. I was asking too much.

    Still waiting on one of you to tell us how many stitches those monstrous gashes took to close as well.
     
  2. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    No it's not, Lol thank god you're not a DA. Martin had no idea if Zimmerman was armed or not. If he did, obviously he wouldn't have attacked George Zimmerman, or if he did attack him knowingly, would have reached for the gun. You don't hit on an armed guy 20 times. You knock him out and go for the gun.

    Taken directly from the SCOF (and that F is not Fin D)

    Following Martin, armed or not, does not satisfy #1. Zimmerman has every right to follow Martin to ask him where he was going. Martin also had every right to be there. No crime yet. If martin says, my dad lives two blocks away and everyone walks away, no crime committed by anyone.

    Zimmerman never threatened physical violence. if he brandished his fire arm then yes. If he was running after Martin with a bat in his hand, yes. I'll even give you, if Z was running down the neighborhood chasing Martin with both hands knuckled up and a grimacing look on his face.

    But chasing Martin does not meet the definition of assault in any court except a kangaroo one.
     
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  3. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Remember that question, when you later tell me Martin reached for Zimmerman's gun...that he had no idea was there.:pity:

    Are you that ignorant that you think I'm saying calling the police is assault? Jesus christ, I'm noticing a trend with people in this thread claiming Zimmerman is innocent and being able to read.

    You want Zimmerman to be in the clear of shooting a black kid. Yes or no?
     
  4. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    Why does Zimmerman wait til he's getting beat on "mma style" to take his gun out btw? If he was far away from him or had to catch up with him and thought he was such a threat, why does it take him that long?
     
  5. RickyBobby

    RickyBobby VIP DIY

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    He was advised to not follow and wait for police, notice I didn't quote.
     
  6. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    As I've said, if you want to play this game, I'll once again assert you have not shown it.

    No, that is your opinion.



    This is where the delusion starts, you have an actual Bar Certified Atty telling you "nope, he didn't", if one wishes to play at pro se propia then by all means, dig into the actual elements of the crime then go from there, quoting a statute with no knowledge of what it really means is not proof of anything at all.


    Further delusion, Martin was on top of Zimmerman punching him in the nose, driving his head into the pavement, the physical evidence shows exactly this, the eye witness evidence shows this.


    Yet, you continually smear Zimmerman with whatever the PD did in the past, the two have nothing to do with each other.

    Learn to read a statute FinD, you'd look far less hysterical if you did so before going through all of this.

    And further, "stand your ground" is an affirmative DEFENSE, Martin is not on trial, Zimmerman is, to blithely say "oh Martin was just standing his ground!" is just more hysteria.

    BTW, may want to quote that SYG statute as well mr junior barrister.
     
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  7. Justright

    Justright Banned

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    When he was on top of Zimmerman, "Beating him MMA style" <<<<FACT! Martin then noticed the gun.

    Never even hinted that I thought you think calling police is assault. However, Zimmerman, as the watch captain, was doing nothing wrong for reporting suspicious activity and then attempting to keep an eye out for where Martin was headed so he could relay that to the police. That is NOT assault.

    I want Zimmerman to get a fair trial. I haven't deemed him innocent or guilty because I don't have all of the evidence. I have an opinion based upon the evidence shown so far. You, however, have all the facts, and have deemed him guilty.

    You just want an Hispanic man to be found guilty for shooting a black kid. Yes or no?

    It's posts like this that make you seem so unreasonable.
     
  8. Justright

    Justright Banned

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    According to Zimmerman he was walking back to his truck when Martin walked up behind him and asked him if he had a problem. When Zimmerman replied I don't have a problem, Martin punched him in the face, knocked him to the ground, got on top of him, and started banging his head on the cement. When Zimmerman was trying to grab Martin's arms, and protect his face, he lifted his arms up and in doing so his shirt raised above the holstered pistol. Martin then noticed the pistol and grabbed for it while proclaiming, "You're going to die". Zimmerman then also reached for the gun, was able to get some control over it and fired it once. Initially he thought he missed Martin, because Martin raised up, raised his hands, and said, "OK, you got me". Zimmerman then grabbed Martin's arms, rolled him over, face first to the ground, held his arms down and told a neighbor (who just arrived) to help him hold Martin down. He then realized that Martin was limp.
     
  9. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    To prove the crime of Assault, the State must prove the following three elements beyond a reasonable doubt:
    Chasing someone, is a threat by act. Being armed means he can carry out the threat. Martin ran proving the victim had well-founded fear that violence was about to take place. 1-2-3.

    He ran from a man that had a gun. Then during an altercation he reached for the gun. Those acts prove he feared for his life and knew there was a gun.

    You know damn good and well that chasing someone can be considered assault, and you're using your status as an atty, to pretend like it can't be assault. That's dirty pool.
     
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  10. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Yes I have proved it. You have yet to do otherwise. Until you do, I'm done debating you on this, because you don't have the fortitude to actually defend your point. Its sad.
     
  11. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    Here is how I see all of this, "if" Zimmerman had a camera instead of just a cell phone and firearm, "if"Martin had not over reacted. Then what probably would have happened is Martin slides home has his skittles, no harm no foul to anyone.

    All legalese aside, that is my take away from all this, Zimmerman was concerned about his neighborhood and took it to seriously, Martin was concerned with his teenaged pride and went to far.
     
  12. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    Why was he walking back to his truck if his excuse for following him was so he'd know where he went so he could tell the cops?

    That and apparently Martin was some kind of ninja if Zim had no idea he was there til the last min.
     
  13. Justright

    Justright Banned

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    You really should just take a deep breath and read through the evidence shown to the public thus far. You also need to stop thinking that the law is so black and white. The REAL fact is, and an attorney has even weighed in on this: Zimmerman following Martin was not assault. The fact that Zimmerman had a CONCEALED weapon matters not one iota.
     
  14. Justright

    Justright Banned

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    HE lost him BEFORE he got out of his truck. He got out of his truck in order to find a street address on a house.

    Watch this video:

    http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57457640/zimmerman-walks-through-fatal-fight-in-new-video/
     
  15. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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  16. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Not a fact, but carry on.

    No you're just flat out wrong. Two huge rules of the NWP, is don't pursue and don't be armed. Look it up.

    Sure you do, its all you've argued for. lol. If you were about the facts, then you'd actually know some and you've displayed that you don't. These are the facts:

    - Martin went to the store and was walking home while talking to his girl on the phone.
    - Zimmerman, saw him, deemed him suspicious and called the police.
    - During the call, Zimmerman gave chase.
    - Zimmerman was armed, Martin was not.
    - A fight happened.
    - Martin punched Zimmerman
    - Zimmerman shot Martin dead

    Those are the only guaranteed facts in this case. Based on those, Zimmerman is guilty. None of the other "testimony" has changed any of that.

    Yes. I think it should be illegal to threaten people and then when they fight back, shoot them dead.

    What makes you actually unreasonable is that you haven't actually explained why chasing someone at night with a gun for no reason isn't assault.
     
  17. Justright

    Justright Banned

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    yes
     
  18. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Bring some facts or stop addressing me.

    JD knows for a fact, Zimmerman's actions can be considered assault, he's just being...well, JD. There is no evidence the weapon was concealed. Chasing can certainly be assault, especially if you're armed and the chasing victim ends up dead by your hands using your weapon.
     
  19. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    I'm not watching it now, can't you just say how they think it's possible.
     
  20. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Riiiiiiiight. Let me guess, you've changed your mind on this?

    JD, like most other attorney's know that Zimmerman's actions can easily be considered assault. Just because he's saying it isn't on a football message board is not proof of anything.
     
  21. Justright

    Justright Banned

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    It was dark and there are alleys, well, sorta alley like spaces running in between the homes. When Zimmerman was passing an alley Martin came out of the alley, after Zimmerman had passed, and approached him from behind.
     
  22. Justright

    Justright Banned

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    Nope. I still don't know if Zimmerman is guilty or not. With the evidence presented so far, my opinion is that he was defending himself.
     
  23. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    You feel passionate enough to argue it for pages and pages that Zimmerman is innocent, but you don't know if he is or not. Do go on....
     
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  24. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    Not very observant for a neighborhood watch patrol.
     
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  25. Justright

    Justright Banned

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    Nope. I've given plausible reasons has to why your verdict of guilt, which seems to be based solely off of race, is wrong
     
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  26. Justright

    Justright Banned

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    So his non-ninja like, poor observations make him guilty some how? How is it that it seems impossible to see a black kid, on a rainy night, when it's pitch black, and he's down an alley? lol
     
  27. Justright

    Justright Banned

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    If Martin knew that Zimmerman had a gun before their tussle, as FinD claims is a fact, why didn't Martin mention this to his girlfriend? "There's a creepy-*** cracka with a gun following me". Did he say that?
     
  28. padre31

    padre31 Premium Member Luxury Box

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    And..he wasn't looking for him, he was looking for a street address.

    Not 100% if he was still on his phone at the time as well.
     
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  29. maynard

    maynard Who, whom?

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    We have crossed a line here. Keep it civil or the thread gets shut down
     
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  30. Justright

    Justright Banned

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    Dispatcher: Sanford Police Department.


    Zimmerman: Hey we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy, uh, [near] Retreat View Circle, um, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about.

    Dispatcher: OK, and this guy is he white, black, or Hispanic? (Dispatch asks him race first)

    Zimmerman: He looks black. (Zimmerman not even sure if he's black at first)

    Zimmerman: Now he's just staring at me. (Zimmerman is still in his truck)

    Zimmerman: Yeah, now he's coming towards me. (The scared Martin approaches Zimmerman)

    Zimmerman: He's got his hand in his waistband. And he's a black male. (Zimmerman just now knows for sure that Martin is black)

    Zimmerman: Somethings wrong with him. Yup, he's coming to check me out, he's got something in his hands, I don't know what his deal is. (Zimmerman seems frightened)


    Dispatcher: So it's on the lefthand side from the clubhouse?


    Zimmerman: No you go in straight through the entrance and then you make a left...uh you go straight in, don't turn, and make a left. **** he's running. (Sounds of car door opening and wind after Martin already took of running)


    Dispatcher: Are you following him?


    Zimmerman: Yeah


    Dispatcher: Ok, we don't need you to do that.


    Zimmerman: Ok


    Dispatcher: Alright sir what is your name?


    Zimmerman: George...He ran.
    (He loses sight of Martin...Remember, Martin started running when he saw Zimmerman on the phone AFTER he approached Zimmerman)


    Dispatcher: Alright George what's your last name?


    Zimmerman: Zimmerman

    ispatcher: And George what's the phone number you're calling from?



    Dispatcher: What address are you parked in front of?


    Zimmerman: I don't know, it's a cut through so I don't know the address.


    Dispatcher: Okay do you live in the area?


    Zimmerman: Yeah, I...[unintelligible]


    Dispatcher: What's your apartment number?


    Zimmerman: It's a home it's 1950, oh crap I don't want to give it all out, I don't know where this kid is.

    (PROOF that Zimmerman was no longer following Martin and was afraid that he may still be in the area, but wasn't sure where)


    Dispatcher: Okay do you want to just meet with them right near the mailboxes then?

    Zimmerman: Yeah that's fine.

    Dispatcher: Alright George, I'll let them know to meet you around there okay?

    Zimmerman: Actually could you have them call me and I'll tell them where I'm at?

    Dispatcher: Okay, yeah that's no problem.

    Zimmerman: Should I give you my number or you got it?

    Dispatcher: Yeah I got it [redacted by Mother Jones]

    Zimmerman: Yeah you got it.

    Dispatcher: Okay no problem, I'll let them know to call you when you're in the area.

    Zimmerman: Thanks.

    Dispatcher: You're welcome





    Zimmerman sure doesn't sound like a man looking to kill someone. It looks like Martin saw Zimmerman on the phone and ran because either he was guilty of something, or didn't want to be hassled by the cops...Not, like some think is FACT, because he was afraid of Zimmerman and his (as of yet) unknown gun.
     
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  31. Justright

    Justright Banned

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    Just so I can better understand the line...Can you give me an example of where in this thread that line was crossed? I don't want to break any rules.
     
  32. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Probably when me and Fin D insulted each other :D
     
  33. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Probably? lol.
     
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  34. slickj101

    slickj101 Is Water

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    So you're saying he's frightened of Martin yet he jumps out of his car to follow him and continues to do so after the police tell him he doesn't need to.

    That doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
     
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  35. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Its nice how you ignore the fact that, that shows he began to give chase and how you left out the line about these guys always get away, etc.

    The fight between Zimmerman and Martin was not near the truck. How is that possible if Zimmerman returned to his truck and waited for the cops?
     
  36. Fin D

    Fin D Sigh

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    Its crazier than that.

    They not only expect us to believe that Zimmerman was scared of Martin even though he chased him, but that Martin wasn't scared of Zimmerman even though he ran.
     
  37. daphins

    daphins A-Style

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    This act to me speaks volumes about Zimmermans stare of mind. I do not believe he was out to kill anyone. When you get a CCW permit, you're taught that you don't pull a gun out unless its absolutely necessary. It's not to intimidate, it's to defend. You can't use your gun unless you're in a situation that meets certain criteria. When you pull it out, you pull it out because you intend to shoot someone, not because you want to scare them.

    This to me shows that Zimmerman acted appropriately. Actually after reading that 911 call, I'm solidly on Zimmermans side. I was always up on the air about him following Trayvon, but it appears that he didn't even do that.
     
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  38. Stringer Bell

    Stringer Bell Post Hard, Post Often Club Member

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    All that matters to me is who initiated the first physical contact. If I was a HS kid and some guy was following me, then proceeded to grab or hold me, I'd probably assume he was trying to harm me. Zimmerman had a right to follow Martin, but he had no right to try to apprehend, or make any physical contact with Martin. Hell, depending on what he said, that could constitute assault. If Zimmerman said "hey you're not going anywhere", that could reasonably constitute a threat to Martin.
     
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  39. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Well, I didn't want to speak for Maynard. Lol.
     
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  40. jdang307

    jdang307 Season Ticket Holder Club Member

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    Yeah, I'm sure soldiers are afraid of bullets but they go out on the battlefield anyway!!!!!

    On a serious note, I wouldn't say frightened, but cautious or wary.
     
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